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Ordering New iMac - CPU Question

R

ralston

Junior Member
I am getting ready to order the new 21.5" iMac for the family computer. I am ordering through the Government Store so I get a decent discount. I am looking at the 2.7 Ghz i5 / 1TB model ($1,399 w/ discount). My question is whether the additional upgrade to the i7 is worth the extra $180. The thought was I really don't need it now, but it may provide for some "future proofing". My hope is to keep the iMac for the next 5 years or so.

Overall, my wife and I don't do a whole lot on the computer and the kids are pretty young right now (under 5). Mostly email, internet, photos and editing, videos and editing (nothing major), and occasional gaming.

So is i7 worth $180 and will it help extend the usfulness of the iMac for the next 5 years more than the base model? Appreciate any thoughts.
 
I agree, the way I think it that if you plan to keep it for a decent amount of time, you should buy the higher model.
 
i got a used mac pro - because i can upgrade to westmere 6-core someday when the prices come down. you can hack the old mac pro 4,1 to a 5,1 and use the newer cpu's 🙂

but quite honestly the $1800 i paid with the dual quad core with HT is alot of mojo already. and plenty of expansion. Really quiet. The imac - that's a pita to upgrade. i got a new velociraptor and put it in the tray - slid that drive in HOT and done. online. gotta love it!

I have some EFI compatible lsi raid controllers (for sale $50 with 8 fanout cable) and you can do raid internally too 🙂

Flash a ATI 5770/5870 and it will rock out no problems.

$1800 for a machine that originally had a $10K sticker price lol. i feel sorry for the chap that paid so much.

I will keep it until its discontinued by OSX but given the flash hack to a mac pro 5,1 i suspect it will be many more years!
 
Thanks. W/ the feedback I don't feel like I'm making mistake going for the i7. Also I can better justify to the wife!
 
In a year or two the iMacs will likely be massively faster; in 5 years they'll be night and day faster. Unless you need it, I suggest minimizing your spend now, keep it in your wallet, and if you find you need something faster in 3 years or so, take that $300 you saved, sell the iMac for what you can, and buy something at that time.

"Futureproofing" on computers, unless you need it right now, with prices on a constant spiral downward, is silly. The i7 might be 20% faster for some very specific things, and many people won't even notice unless they're compressing video. I suggest saving your money and simply upgrading when the mood strikes rather than having a definite target of "5 years".
 
dclive said:
In a year or two the iMacs will likely be massively faster; in 5 years they'll be night and day faster. Unless you need it, I suggest minimizing your spend now, keep it in your wallet, and if you find you need something faster in 3 years or so, take that $300 you saved, sell the iMac for what you can, and buy something at that time.

"Futureproofing" on computers, unless you need it right now, with prices on a constant spiral downward, is silly. The i7 might be 20% faster for some very specific things, and many people won't even notice unless they're compressing video. I suggest saving your money and simply upgrading when the mood strikes rather than having a definite target of "5 years".
Click to expand...

Futureproofing for Apple products actually is not as bad an idea as futureproofing for PCs. Since Apple controls the hardware, they can be staggered with releases yet up to date. I would argue that Apple is more efficient in using its hardware. The i7 with hyperthreading would seem like an easy $200 upgrade for something that costs $1500.
 
Regardless of points of Apple's value, in a few years the machines will be so much faster and "better" that the $180 or whathaveyou added now (which is worth more with 5 years of opportunity cost, mind you), plus the spend available from selling the old iMac, will give you something vastly faster. I always suggest getting what you want now, spending as little as possible for it, and then buying upgrades more frequently. In the long run it's usually cheaper; Apple's upgrades aren't bargains and don't give a significant uplift in speed for most people.

For example, a far wiser spend for most people is an SSD, as it makes a vastly larger difference than a 20% CPU bump when most people almost never wait on their CPU. In a year or two I expect that to be nearly the standard. I suggest either waiting for big purchases or planning to sell when SSDs get into the range anyone can just plop one into their Mac.
 
dclive said:
Regardless of points of Apple's value, in a few years the machines will be so much faster and "better" that the $180 or whathaveyou added now (which is worth more with 5 years of opportunity cost, mind you), plus the spend available from selling the old iMac, will give you something vastly faster. I always suggest getting what you want now, spending as little as possible for it, and then buying upgrades more frequently. In the long run it's usually cheaper; Apple's upgrades aren't bargains and don't give a significant uplift in speed for most people.
Click to expand...

Not all Apple upgrades are bargains. Processor upgrades and video card upgrades are usually extremely close to industry prices. Sometimes HDD upgrades are close. RAM on the other hand are not upgrades at all.
 
ChAoTiCpInOy said:
Not all Apple upgrades are bargains. Processor upgrades and video card upgrades are usually extremely close to industry prices. Sometimes HDD upgrades are close. RAM on the other hand are not upgrades at all.
Click to expand...

Proc and video card upgrades aren't anywhere close to industry pricing. It's a $50 video card upgrade and an almost no charge to $50 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_microprocessors) CPU upgrade, and Apple charges $300.

My point is for most people, regardless of whether it's a good deal or not, it's a waste of money; save the money, buy just what you need now, and use the money later to get something in a year or two or three that will be vastly faster than them all.

With SSDs being right around the corner to popular adoption, I think buying any big spend item with an intention to hold it for years and years (assuming no SSD) is a bad idea.
 
ChAoTiCpInOy said:
Futureproofing for Apple products actually is not as bad an idea as futureproofing for PCs. Since Apple controls the hardware, they can be staggered with releases yet up to date. I would argue that Apple is more efficient in using its hardware. The i7 with hyperthreading would seem like an easy $200 upgrade for something that costs $1500.
Click to expand...
Of course it's easy, it's just a radio button in the online ordering. 😛 dclive is arguing (and I tend to agree) that it's not optimal to upgrade the CPU since most software isn't CPU-bound and trying to future-proof years out is improbable. I think he's right that putting the money towards an SSD upgrade down the road is a stronger value; and discounted AppleCare should be on the list if it isn't already.

Since you got the 27" iMac, the math is a little different. I don't necessarily think the counter-argument is "wrong" either. For the projected lifetime of the machine, we're talking $40/year. While not optimal, that's almost a rounding error.
 
They're both Quads, so the i7 gives you a tiny bump in MHz, Hyperthreading, and more cache.

I'd spend the money on an SSD instead.
 
I plan to get apple care later (got a year for that). I'm already planning to do the memory upgrade myself.

I say 5 years b/c that's how long it's been since we got the last one. There's no option to upgrade in a year or two or three when technology is better (at least not in this household). The computer will need to be dead or obviously slow to the point my wife is annoyed (which takes a lot longer!).

So it sounds as though there is no general consensus that the hypertheading, extra cache, and speed bump of the i7 is worth the extra $. Again thanks for all the input.
 
ralston said:
I plan to get apple care later (got a year for that). I'm already planning to do the memory upgrade myself.

I say 5 years b/c that's how long it's been since we got the last one. There's no option to upgrade in a year or two or three when technology is better (at least not in this household). The computer will need to be dead or obviously slow to the point my wife is annoyed (which takes a lot longer!).

So it sounds as though there is no general consensus that the hypertheading, extra cache, and speed bump of the i7 is worth the extra $. Again thanks for all the input.
Click to expand...

I think AppleCare is generally a waste of money. Most credit cards already double your warranty (check terms - platinum cards generally do; for others it varies) so the value is only in years from the end of year 2 to the end of year 3, which is an unlikely time for a failure. Think about it - Apple makes $$$ on AppleCare; how would they do that if failure rates even approached AppleCare sales? Retailers and distributors all take their cut from AppleCare profits and Apple *still* makes money on it. Most people are far better off putting the AppleCare money in savings; over the average they'll save mountains of money. For a laptop I could at least make a weak case for it; for the other stuff, it's very difficult.

If your wife is the driver here, and she doesn't get annoyed by slowness, why bother with the extra spend?

I still think you're far better off just getting a cheap model, and then replacing (Apple makes that part very, very easy with their transfer utilities) it when the time comes - ideally with something with an SSD. 🙂
 
I also say go with the i5.

I bought a 2009 13" MBP new in August of '09. I went with the lowest end model. Immediately, I put in an SSD (OCZ Summit).

A few months ago I upgraded the RAM from 4GB to 8GB, and upgraded the SSD from a Summit to a Vertex2.

Point is: the CPU has been the least of my worries. You'll get more bang for your buck upgrading to an SSD and adding RAM than you would by bumping up the CPU.
 
I'd get the i5 and the hard drive. The SSD add-on costs way too much.

If you don't need a lot of storage space, then the 500 GB is fine, so get the entry-level model.
If you need a lot of storage space, then get the next i5 model up.

Then add 2 x 2 GB for a total of 8 GB.
 
Eug said:
I'd get the i5 and the hard drive. The SSD add-on costs way too much.

If you don't need a lot of storage space, then the 500 GB is fine, so get the entry-level model.
If you need a lot of storage space, then get the next i5 model up.

Then add 2 x 2 GB for a total of 8 GB.
Click to expand...

...which is exactly why one should buy the basic setup, sit out this upgrade cycle, and get SSDs later.

I'm running 4GB everywhere. Why should anyone upgrade to 8GB?
 
dclive said:
...which is exactly why one should buy the basic setup, sit out this upgrade cycle, and get SSDs later.

I'm running 4GB everywhere. Why should anyone upgrade to 8GB?
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Because the more ram, the more stuff you can do at once. Once your machine starts paging out and using the hard drive as memory your performance goes to hell. I always recommend at least 8GB at this point.
 
rugby said:
Because the more ram, the more stuff you can do at once. Once your machine starts paging out and using the hard drive as memory your performance goes to hell. I always recommend at least 8GB at this point.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm aware of the logistics, and I'm aware how RAM works.

I'm asking why most non-Photoshop (for example) users (ie the web browser and Mac Mail audience) need >4GB - so much so that it's a forgone conclusion everyone should just run out and buy another 4GB.

I can't say everyone needs >4GB RAM. For the vast majority, in fact, I think 4GB is just fine with 10.6. I remember my 11" MBA with just 2GB, and it wasn't half bad; my 13" MBP with 4GB works great.

For most people, unless loading up on virtual machines with Parallels/Fusion or using pro apps, 4GB is wonderful and the gains in going to 8GB are pretty small. OS X is very good about caching and paging out unused items (yes, with more RAM this isn't needed; I know), and the benefit for most just isn't there.
 
Most people I know just leave all of their apps running and have a hard time remembering to close them **cough my wife cough**. So loading up on ram is an easy way to make their computer stay relatively fast even when they have everything open.

With Apple shipping 5400rpm drives in their laptops still, having more ram is definitely a plus. If you have an SSD like in your macbook air, paging out isn't as huge of an impact. I have 8GB and an SSD drive in my macbook pro and couldn't dream of going back to either 4GB or a spindle hard drive.
 
I did a 180 from where i started. Just ordered the base model. I may be able to put the extra cash toward a tv. Thanks to all. This will be our first Mac. Looking forward to the switch. I'll probably be back with other questions soon! Cheers
 
My next PC purchase will be one of those iMacs, the i5, I have in my notebook, and does quite well, with 6GB RAM. But had I had the option, I would've went with the i7.

Save your money on that Apple Care plan and go to SquareTrade. I buy all of my warranties from them, and save at least 50% over the OEM plans. Plus, if it costs more than your computer is worth to repair, SquareTrade will refund your entire purchase. I've gotten 3 full refunds in less than 3 years with them, with no return shipping charges, and no BS. The money saved will pay for the CPU upgrade.

Cat
 
I am in the "buy the lowest end model because they will depreciate the least and upgrade next time there's a major refresh" camp.
 
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