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Order of incrimental upgrade

O

oleguy

Member
Over the next 2-3 months, I plan on piecing together my new build. The issue right now is that I'm not able to commit the cash to the entire thing, so I'm considering a piecemeal approach where I buy the items that I can use in my current build (or just find an insane holiday special).

Right now I'm stuck considering what I should do first. One of the chief issues I have today is that my ancient Radeon HD 4850 is just choking on today's games, even at 1280x1024 with the eye candy and detail turned down. For example, I've reduced the FFXIV:ARR levels to "Mainstream laptop" as the base setting and still struggle to maintain 60fps.

I've been eyeing the GTX780 as my upgrade option, as it will both be 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost of the build as well as alleviate much of my current issue. However, I have a Phenom II 550, which I assume will severely bottleneck the GPU. I have other needs today as well, such as replacing the three old HDDs with a single large HDD (already have an SSD that will be in the build) or replacing the monitor, as my original finally crapped out and I'm using a loaner that adorned my wife's old Dell until she went laptop 100%.

So the question is if I should really get the GPU today, knowing that it won't come into its own until the complete system is built, or if I should take care of some of the other issues first. The $500 price tag is also a bit of a shocker, since even getting a nice IPS 1900x1200 monitor will be nearly $200 less, if only making my gaming problems worse.

And the case, MB, and CPU are all out of the question, as they would all sit around, even if they would be less than the GPU. I can't put this 4850 in a new build.
 
If you got a decent GPU now, that might tide you over with your current system until you have the funds saved up to upgrade it proper. It makes sense... you can use it now and take it with you to the next build.
 
oleguy said:
Over the next 2-3 months, I plan on piecing together my new build. The issue right now is that I'm not able to commit the cash to the entire thing, so I'm considering a piecemeal approach where I buy the items that I can use in my current build (or just find an insane holiday special).

Right now I'm stuck considering what I should do first. One of the chief issues I have today is that my ancient Radeon HD 4850 is just choking on today's games, even at 1280x1024 with the eye candy and detail turned down. For example, I've reduced the FFXIV:ARR levels to "Mainstream laptop" as the base setting and still struggle to maintain 60fps.

I've been eyeing the GTX780 as my upgrade option, as it will both be 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost of the build as well as alleviate much of my current issue. However, I have a Phenom II 550, which I assume will severely bottleneck the GPU. I have other needs today as well, such as replacing the three old HDDs with a single large HDD (already have an SSD that will be in the build) or replacing the monitor, as my original finally crapped out and I'm using a loaner that adorned my wife's old Dell until she went laptop 100%.

So the question is if I should really get the GPU today, knowing that it won't come into its own until the complete system is built, or if I should take care of some of the other issues first. The $500 price tag is also a bit of a shocker, since even getting a nice IPS 1900x1200 monitor will be nearly $200 less, if only making my gaming problems worse.

And the case, MB, and CPU are all out of the question, as they would all sit around, even if they would be less than the GPU. I can't put this 4850 in a new build.
Click to expand...

What kind of PSU do you have now?
A GTX780 draws more than twice the amount a hd4850 does under load.
 
pauldun170 said:
What kind of PSU do you have now?
A GTX780 draws more than twice the amount a hd4850 does under load.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. I have an Antec EarthWatts 650 that I picked up about four years ago from Best Buy when my old PSU bit the dust. Taking a look, it does have a 6+2 PCI-E connector. While it might not be ideal, it's the same wattage as the new PSU I was thinking about picking up on the basis that the EarthWatts was old and may die, as well as been less efficient now.
 
Should be OK still. The Antec is a pretty decent unit from what I understand, and it doesn't sound like it's been punished too much running the HD4850...

EDIT: No... it looks like the GTX780 takes 6 & 8 pin power... 🙁
 
Hm, I would advise continue saving until you can do the whole overhaul at once. A 780 won't work with the PSU, as Charlie said.

Random thought...how does the Intel 4600 compare to the Radeon 4850?
 
Last edited:
Charlie98 said:
Should be OK still. The Antec is a pretty decent unit from what I understand, and it doesn't sound like it's been punished too much running the HD4850...

EDIT: No... it looks like the GTX780 takes 6 & 8 pin power... 🙁
Click to expand...

I meant it has a 6+2 in addition to the 6 pin being used by the HD4850. So if I need to the 6+2 in addition to the 6 pin to run the GTX780, the PSU shouldn't be the limiting factor.
 
RaistlinZ said:
Hm, I would advise continue saving until you can do the whole overhaul at once. A 780 won't work with the PSU, as Charlie said.

Random thought...how does the Intel 4600 compare to the Radeon 4850?
Click to expand...

If the Voodoopower rankings are to be believed (BoFox's creation over in the Video Cards and Graphics area) my 4850 w/ 512MB (Did I mention it's the original 512MB version? Yeah... it's old) it's got about 2.5 times the power. My GPU is around 56 VP vs. the 16.7 of the 4000 series on Ivy Bridge. Not quite the same as the 4600, but considering that the AMD 7660D integrated solution is around 31 VP, and it trounces the 4600 (which is lacking an entry on the VP leaderboards), I would say it's rather impotent compared to my current solution. The only place the new 4600 has a leg-up is the ability to handle DX11.
 
Charlie98 said:
Using the VooDoo rankings, the 4850 is #91, and Ivy/HD4000 is #175. I doubt HD4600 would wind up much farther up the ladder...
Click to expand...

Beat me to it. But, those series can handle DX11 (or their variation thereof), unlike my current GPU. Not that either the 4600 or the HD4850 could really work with the new DX11 stuff.
 
oleguy said:
Beat me to it. But, those series can handle DX11 (or their variation thereof), unlike my current GPU. Not that either the 4600 or the HD4850 could really work with the new DX11 stuff.
Click to expand...

I used my HD3000 graphics to run MW1 & 2 until I got my GTX560ti... it did it, but it didn't like it. 😵
 
oleguy said:
That's a good point. I have an Antec EarthWatts 650 that I picked up about four years ago from Best Buy when my old PSU bit the dust. Taking a look, it does have a 6+2 PCI-E connector. While it might not be ideal, it's the same wattage as the new PSU I was thinking about picking up on the basis that the EarthWatts was old and may die, as well as been less efficient now.
Click to expand...

Since my GTX780 based rig also uses an Antec Earthwatts 650 purchased 4 years ago I'm going to say you are fine on the PSU front.

FYI: EA650 comes has the required power cables (6pin and 6pin+2pin)
 
sm625 said:
You can bump up your fps by probably 50% just by using a modern i5.
Click to expand...

Glances at sig.... D:

But seriously, I agree with the sentiment here. You don't really know that the new GPU will solve all of your framerate problems; the game could very well be CPU limited.

What is the difference in framerate between your current settings and, say, medium? If there's no difference, then it seems likely that the CPU isn't the issue. You can also look at the CPU usage graphs while the game is running for corroborating evidence.
 
mfenn said:
What is the difference in framerate between your current settings and, say, medium? If there's no difference, then it seems likely that the CPU isn't the issue. You can also look at the CPU usage graphs while the game is running for corroborating evidence.
Click to expand...

I'll take a look as soon as the 2.1 patch is loaded (only 3GB...). And I was a little too pessimistic in my assessment in terms of the graphic settings. I'm at the standard desktop, not laptop. The min GPU they list for the game is a 4770, which is about 90% of the power of the 4850.

There is a benchmark with adjustable graphic settings I am going to download, as outside of the beta I haven't found a way to display FPS info in-game (which is where my original numbers came from). The best I can do is open the system menu to see what the current FPS is, but that doesn't help when I'm in the middle of something with a two dozen or more PCs and mobs. And it does seem that a symptom of lacking system power is mobs not appearing on the screen until after a long load time.

I will also keep my system monitor open to see what happens. I don't discount the CPU limitation in the slightest... it's my other concern with dropping the $500 on a GPU.
 
sm625 said:
You can bump up your fps by probably 50% just by using a modern i5.
Click to expand...

That's the plan.... but I'd rather not spend $350 on a CPU and MB just to put a 4850 in the PCIE slot. And I'd also rather not go through the hassle of swapping the motherboard into my old, in-need-of-replacement case, then swapping it into a new case in a couple of months. Kind of a Catch-22.
 
Check Task Manager to see CPU utilization in your game. Something like Afterburner can keep track of % GPU use. You'll find your answer as to what is choking what. If the CPU is in the 95+% range and the GPU % is much, it's the CPU that is the bottleneck. If the GPU has a high % and the CPU has much lower %, it is a GPU bottleneck.

A GTX 780 would be underutilized under that CPU of yours, especially at 1280x1024, a resolution that should be child's play for something like a GTX 660.
 
Torn Mind said:
Check Task Manager to see CPU utilization in your game. Something like Afterburner can keep track of % GPU use. You'll find your answer as to what is choking what. If the CPU is in the 95+% range and the GPU % is much, it's the CPU that is the bottleneck. If the GPU has a high % and the CPU has much lower %, it is a GPU bottleneck.

A GTX 780 would be underutilized under that CPU of yours, especially at 1280x1024, a resolution that should be child's play for something like a GTX 660.
Click to expand...

I averaged 39 fps using the High-end Laptop settings (HDR, FXAA on, Anisotropic filtering at x4). GPU was in the 90s for most of it while the CPU only hit 100% when the benchmark was exiting. And just for fun, I kicked it up a bit by turning Anisotropic filtering to x8 and increasing the other settings to high-end desktop. I averaged 31 fps, and the CPU was around 75% most of the time until the benchmark exited. The GPU was consistently at 99%.

Based on that, I would probably max out the CPU with a GTX780, but it would likely at least let me do that and it would alleviate some of the GPU bottlenecking I'm getting now. Anyone have thoughts on the matter?

To provide additional context, an i5 and 1920x1200 monitor is the desired end state.
 
As someone who played at a high of 25 FPS (and by "high" i mean, max >_>) for a good number of years, I understand the need and want, to upgrade. But, do you have to upgrade anything right NOW? perhaps instead of piecemealing it one or 2 parts at a time, just put the money back and wait the few months and do a full build.

Either way I don't have anything else to add, haven't kept up on tech last 6 months ^_^' so good luck in whatever path you take for the build!
 
Now is not the best time to buy. There were great deals on Radeon 7870s a month ago. If you are planning to buy a i5 and monitor, it is better to wait and buy everything together.

Unless your gaming is simply unbearable...
 
oleguy said:
I averaged 39 fps using the High-end Laptop settings (HDR, FXAA on, Anisotropic filtering at x4). GPU was in the 90s for most of it while the CPU only hit 100% when the benchmark was exiting. And just for fun, I kicked it up a bit by turning Anisotropic filtering to x8 and increasing the other settings to high-end desktop. I averaged 31 fps, and the CPU was around 75% most of the time until the benchmark exited. The GPU was consistently at 99%.

Based on that, I would probably max out the CPU with a GTX780, but it would likely at least let me do that and it would alleviate some of the GPU bottlenecking I'm getting now. Anyone have thoughts on the matter?

To provide additional context, an i5 and 1920x1200 monitor is the desired end state.
Click to expand...

Thanks for gathering the data. As a point of clarification, when you're talking about the CPU utilization percentage, are you referring to a single core's utilization or overall utilization? If you're talking about overall, what is the distribution of load between your two cores?
 
mfenn said:
Thanks for gathering the data. As a point of clarification, when you're talking about the CPU utilization percentage, are you referring to a single core's utilization or overall utilization? If you're talking about overall, what is the distribution of load between your two cores?
Click to expand...

I was originally referring to overall. When rerunning the benchmark, even at the max preset, neither core ever exceeded 80%. They also had roughly the same utilization, so it seems that the game is able to take advantage of multiple cores.

What does seem odd to me is that the fps still averaged right around 31 fps for the Max and High-end desktop presets. The max preset increases anisotropic filtering from x8 to x16, it disables occlusion culling, so it should be rendering things that can't be seen, and reflections are increase from High to "Real Time", whatever that means. The difference is .5 fps slower, with a benchmark-derived performance score that is 98% of the less-intense setting.

Now, this is a local host benchmark, and I've been led to believe that MMOs and multiplayer games tend to have lower performance than you would think by the graphical detail, and it's a significant reduction (I believe Anandtech quotes something like 50% drop for games like BF or CoD).
 
Revolution 11 said:
Now is not the best time to buy. There were great deals on Radeon 7870s a month ago. If you are planning to buy a i5 and monitor, it is better to wait and buy everything together.

Unless your gaming is simply unbearable...
Click to expand...

I don't follow why buying everything together is the better option or why this is not the best time to buy. Could you expand on those?
 
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