Orange stain second term results thread

[Brovane]

There are probably a literal handful of people that have argued for absolutely no wall. It's effectively a straw man argument. I don't think anyone has an issue with a fencing of some kind where you also have border checkpoints and whatnot on both sides of the border.

A border wall stretching through uninhabited desert is a huge waste of money and resources and is horribly damaging to migratory species and the environment (like when they rip up saguoro that are 100+ years old [they only tend to get their first "arm" around 75-100 years of age]). It's also especially stupid when most people are coming through legal crossings.

It wouldn't be such an issue if we didn't have a horribly broken-by-Republicans immigration system that requires people fill out huge amounts of paperwork and wait years for resolutions. We should be making it easier for people to immigrate here - both those that want to stay after being educated here, and those that simply want to make a better life for themselves. I welcome people that have the want to enrich my country culturally and economically, and I also think it's a moral imperative that we try and help those fleeing economic, social, and political persecution.

@IronWing Just said there should be no wall beyond a cattle fence at the border. Since a cattle fence worked for the first 150 years.

 

[borosp1]

Everything Alex Jones warned us about’: Rightwing podcaster blasts Trump DC takeover.

 

[Brovane]

Has anyone actually argued that we don't need any form of barrier anywhere across the border? The pushback is mostly to a border wall stretching the entire southern border, over thousands of miles of empty desert. Sure some sort of wall, barrier, or fence makes sense in cities and heavily trafficked areas, which I believe we mostly already have and no one had a problem with. There's a reason all of the pictures that conservatives post to support the "border crisis" and "open borders" are migrants stacked up at checkpoints and legal crossings. I mean those stupid fucking caravans conservatives always cried about would pass miles and miles of open border to go to legal checkpoints.

If we had real immigration reform and an easier path to citizenship, seasonal work permits, etc... we wouldn't even need the walls and barriers we do have.

Yes. Unless you count a cattle fence.

We got by just fine for 150+ years with nothing but a cattle fence so I'm going with "no". Remember: the only "border crisis" is a political hysteria fabricated by fascists and racists.

 

[Brovane]

Why no mention of harsher punishments for those found employing undocumented workers?

I agree with you. There should be harsher penalties against those who knowingly employ undocumented workers. However even people who use E-verify to verify somebodies employment status find out later that worker is undocumented.

 

[hal2kilo]

I agree with you. There should be harsher penalties against those who knowingly employ undocumented workers. However even people who use E-verify to verify somebodies employment status find out later that worker is undocumented.

It's almost like employers using E-Verify is just a get out of jail free card. Sounds like there's a problem somewhere with E-Verify. Maybe this admin should put in big effort to fix it since we are in a national emergency?

 

[Brovane]

Ok.

So what is the fix?

Catch them. Then what ?

A wall is not a 100% solution

Verify which ones have a legitimate case for asylum while still in custody and return the rest to country of origin. Or the person applies for Asylum while remaining in Mexico.

 

[Brovane]

It's almost like employers using E-Verify is just a get out of jail free card. Sounds like there's a problem somewhere with E-Verify. Maybe this admin should put in big effort to fix it since we are in a national emergency?

I agree, they should fix E-verify. However some people don't want it fixed. Some people don't want E-verify to exist at all. Not sure what the solution is but you would think that someone who declared a national emergency over immigration would be on top of this. There is a non zero chance that one of Trump's properties is employing undocumented immigrations but for someone reason nobody wants to check.....

How undocumented workers can get around E-Verify

• Identity theft: This is the most common and effective way to fool the system. A person may use valid documents, like a Social Security number and driver's license, that belong to someone else. Since the documents are genuine, the system incorrectly confirms the person's work authorization.
• Borrowed documents: A worker may borrow documents from a friend or relative who is authorized to work. E-Verify cannot tell if the person presenting the documents is the actual owner.
• Purchased documents: Workers can buy valid identity documents that were previously stolen from or sold by the owner.

Other limitations of E-Verify

• Focus on documents, not workers: E-Verify's core weakness is that it checks documents, not the identity of the person presenting them.
• Inaccuracy rate: A 2009 government audit found that E-Verify incorrectly approved unauthorized workers at a rate of 54%. A 2019 report from the Cato Institute concluded that E-Verify failed to identify nearly 12 million illegal hires since 2006.
• Employers' motives: Some employers, particularly those seeking cheap labor, may not have an incentive to scrutinize potentially fake documents too closely, especially if they are making a quick hire. In some cases, employers who use E-Verify may be protected from penalties for "knowingly" hiring undocumented workers, even if their system is bypassed by fraud.
• Limited scope: E-Verify only applies to new hires, not existing employees. This may reduce job mobility and bargaining power for unauthorized workers but does not remove them from the workforce. It also doesn't stop off-the-books hiring in the unregulated "underground economy".

 

[IronWing]

Verify which ones have a legitimate case for asylum while still in custody and return the rest to country of origin. Or the person applies for Asylum while remaining in Mexico.

So we should be making life even more difficult for refugees than it already is? Cruelty for cruelty's sake is a conservative fetish.

 

[Brovane]

So we should be making life even more difficult for refugees than it already is? Cruelty for cruelty's sake is a conservative fetish.

No, We speed up the process so the legitimate asylum cases can be processed. Those who are applying for asylum because of economic hardship can be sent back home quickly.

 

[brycejones]

Verify which ones have a legitimate case for asylum while still in custody and return the rest to country of origin. Or the person applies for Asylum while remaining in Mexico.

Remain in Mexico is such horseshit. It's like the paperwork requirements they added for Medicaid that will result in many people with legit claims being dropped. The point is to make it more painful so at least some people just give up. No matter how legit their claim is.

 

[IronWing]

No, We speed up the process so the legitimate asylum cases can be processed. Those who are applying for asylum because of economic hardship can be sent back home quickly.

Meanwhile, under your proposal, refugees are stuck in limbo, in Mexico. The laws on asylum were intended to protect asylum seekers not to pander to the sensitivities of racists scared to death they might see a person who doesn't look like them.

 

[you2]

Weird how conservatives hate due process for immigrants.

I think you are confused; conservatives don't like due process for anyone. It is always the same - if a member of their party they must be innocent as they are brave and loyal citizens and if they are democrats they must be criminals - it matters not what they did or didn't do. Just look at the sort of people Trump pardons and those he investigates (or choose not to investigate).

 

[Brovane]

Remain in Mexico is such horseshit. It's like the paperwork requirements they added for Medicaid that will result in many people with legit claims being dropped. The point is to make it more painful so at least some people just give up. No matter how legit their claim is.

Was the previous process working where people applied for asylum at the border and then got let in to the US to get court dates years in the future?

Meanwhile, under your proposal, refugees are stuck in limbo, in Mexico. The laws on asylum were intended to protect asylum seekers not to pander to the sensitivities of racists scared to death they might see a person who doesn't look like them.

Fleeing economic hardship alone is not a valid basis for asylum in the United States. The problem was to many people feeling economic hardship jammed up the process for legitimate asylum seekers. My solution would be to make it easier for people to immigrate to the US legally and not have to claim asylum.

I know somebody who is going through the asylum process. It sucks and he has been in the US for years without knowing if he can get a pathway to a green card. I wrote a letter to the judge supporting him for his case but in the current climate I don't know if it will make a difference.

 

[nakedfrog]

I agree, they should fix E-verify. However some people don't want it fixed. Some people don't want E-verify to exist at all. Not sure what the solution is but you would think that someone who declared a national emergency over immigration would be on top of this. There is a non zero chance that one of Trump's properties is employing undocumented immigrations but for someone reason nobody wants to check.....

Well, yeah, basically that's it, the Republicans have no legitimate interest in meaningful overhaul because they want to keep demonizing an exploited underclass, and the Democrats are also beholden to corporate interests, but do have a more humane approach to a problematic situation (and this is without even getting into why our failed drug prohibition policies are part of the problem)

 

[brycejones]

Was the previous process working where people applied for asylum at the border and then got let in to the US to get court dates years in the future?

It wasn't designed to be cruel. I guess if cruelty and pain is what you want then remain in Mexico is your policy. If those are not your policy goals than yes the previous process was better. Now of course we need to increase the number of immigration judges so the process moves much faster as well instead of the intentionally busted system we have now.

 

[you2]

The truth hurts:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/22/politics/hegseth-fires-head-of-defense-intelligence-agency

Of course soon we won't be able to trust anything the govt puts out.

 

[nakedfrog]

Elect stupid people, get stupid results. Good job, Greenman.

 

[you2]

This is good:

(from daily something or other):

On X, Conway renamed himself George “Action News” Conway and posted memes of himself live streaming. He also took a shot at Laura Loomer, the MAGA firebrand who insulted his appearance, saying, “Forgive me Laura Loomer, but if I ever decide to go to a plastic surgeon, it won’t be yours!”

 

[NWRMidnight]

You are the one that said that we wouldn't be talking about illegal immigration today if walls worked.

Securing the border with physical walls is just one part of a solution for illegal immigration. Along with reforms to the immigration system. Have we implemented reforms to the immigration system? No, so we still have a problem with illegal immigration because politicians would rather not solve the problem. Clear example of that is when Trump deliberately scuttled attempts last year to reform the system.

The question that I have, do you think the US should have no physical border wall/Fences/Barriers at all along the US border?

dude, just stop. You already deflated your own argument when you said "How would even know if a slow down was related to the border wall because of the number of variables?"

If walls worked, it would be apparent and you would know. There isn't a wall on the border that hasn't been mitigated at some point. If they can be mitigated, then they don't work

 

[NWRMidnight]

So you are thinking the US should have no physical physical border wall/Fences/Barriers on the border between the US and Mexico? Yes or No?

I could tell how to quantify if a border wall is effective at stopping unauthorized immigration. I have feeling you would not like the source of the data.

The Border Wall System is Deployed, Effective, and Disrupting Criminals and Smugglers

Do you seriously believe what's posted by the Trump administration, specially when it's comparing numbers from. 2019 to 2020? DO you not recall what happened in 2020?


If that article was correct, and border walls where effective, why did border crossings start to drastically increase the last half of 2020? (Yes as much as the right wants to blame Biden, the run on the border of illegal crossings started before he took office).

non bias article that isn't lying to you:

https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-didnt-work

 

[manly]

Guardians of Pedophiles are running the nation's finances into deep, dark waters.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nation-finances-deteriorated-since-trump-162928714.html

https://imgur.com/eASKm0V

Although the voters of TX aren't fully responsible for the disenfranchisement imposed upon them, they keep reelecting the same shitbags back into power by healthy margins. Until they develop brains and decide to vote for their self-interests, and we aren't holding our collective breath, TX and FL are lost causes.

@IronWing Just said there should be no wall beyond a cattle fence at the border. Since a cattle fence worked for the first 150 years.

IMHO IronWing is to the left of most of the (D) voters here. That position isn't an average viewpoint in this subforum.

 

[Brainonska511]

https://bsky.app/profile/donmoyn.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lx2wc47b3c2c

I remember when Republicans "cared" about not punishing people for political views and were "deeply concerned" about making sure law enforcement stayed apolitical. Guess times have changed...