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Opinions on Sun Cobalt series of products?

M

Migroo

Diamond Member
I'm looking for an email and web server. The Cobalt series of products can also act as domain controllers so thats a nice feature.

Anyone have any experience, views?

Were having wires-only ADSL installed at the office and we need an email server. The rest is just convenient to have. Of curse being our only access to email, the thing has to be ultra-reliable, so a Win machine running an email server program will not do...

Opinions? Alternatives?

Many thanks.
 
I just bought an older model cobalt qube 2 to run on my dsl line as my mail server. I love it. The current model is the Qube 3. There are also the RAQ line of servers, which are more for web hosting companies. The Qube is a all in one internet appliance which can handle most business jobs.
 
Sun usually has great support, but I personally dont have any experience talking to them about anything, especially their linux products. If you want to save some money on hardware and support and have the staff with the right knowledge get a dell or two with linux and use that with one of the many free mail daemons (sendmail, qmail, postfix, exim, etc). Just please dont setup exchange on the internet. It will cost you more, be less reliable (from what I have seen), and is much harder to keep secure.
 
Thanks the both of you.

Yeah n0cmonkey, I really plan to stay away from Exchange 🙂 That PC + Linux + free mail daemon sounds cool - But we need a solution fast and I have almost zero Linux experience (I have installed and continue to run a Smoothwall - thats it..)
 
Guys

I found yesterday that one person (in a web discussion group) thought that it was low power -- you could build a Linux machine with a higher power processor, larger memory and more expansion space using a standard PC case and motherboard. This seconds your point n0cmonkey. But he did not note the point that the Qube comes loaded with the software, and that software is (reputedly) easy to administer.

We do need a system that has high availability and is easy to administer too.

I need some more views please 🙂 Is anyone running a Sun Cobalt?

Many thanks.
 
Low power depends on your definition. My qube 2 has a slow MIP cpu. The qube 3 has amd 300 and 450 k6-2 cpus. The Raq XTR has options up to 800-900 mhz. Depends on your idea of low power. Even with my slow MIP cpu, it can handle thousands of emails and hundreds of thousands of web requests a day. It doesn't do as well with dynamic content though.
 
His definition of low power is probably not the same as mine 🙂

If we had a Sun Cobalt, it would be serving for up to 10 machines, 4 of which might be properly active throughout the day, the others just serve as 'spare' machines and backup, so their normal load on the server would be DHCP requests.. 😉

Thanks for the response. Appreciated. 🙂

Any more views?
 
Migroo - since you're in the UK, you should look at getting SuSE. The SuSE HQ is in Germany and the whole distro has been very much geared for Europe (and was always the #1 distro in Europe). You really might consider spending a little money and get the boxed version, which comes with a manual, CD, and x number of days of support. SuSE (and many other distros) has an "Enterprise" edition package as well as an Email Server package (the email one also containing Enterprise server is expensive for Linux :Q but WAY cheaper than Exchange or even HP Openmail and looks like a turn-key mail solution). Packages like that I think are for those who are not sure how to roll their own email services (and putz with the config files, etc).

In any case, pretty much all the major distros come with Apache for web services.
 
Migroo,

I've had one experience with a Cobalt Raq (before Cobalt was bought by SUN) and it should fit your needs nicely. I mean, if the Cobalt doesn't fit the situation looking at, then what is it good for and why do they still exist??

The RAQ2 model we had was "low powered" in terms of processing power, but as you've mentioned you only need as much power as it takes to get the job done. Our unit was a nice 1U model, quiet, and low maintenance. With their web-based interface it is also easy to train a novice to make changes and administer the box.

The downside to their interface is that you are pretty much "stuck" with the options and settings they give you in the interface and you have limited ability to modify the OS itself. Obviously it's a lot less flexible than a Linux install.

I didn't have any personal experience with their tech support.

Lot of people pushing Linux in this thread, but it sounds like they are ignoring your main criteria which is ease of setup/administration.

 
Lot of people pushing Linux in this thread, but it sounds like they are ignoring your main criteria which is ease of setup/administration

Not at all. That's why I recommended getting one of those targetted Linux distro versions (eg., an "Enterprise" or "Email Server"). Those tend to be setup for turn-key operations rather than manually trying to configure something like sendmail or qmail + some LDAP server.

Doing something turn-key will cost. Whether it's winblows Exchange or SusE Enterprise. The thing is, Exchange + some Windoze server version requires x number of licenses in addition to the default software, and can cost upwards of a couple thousand (dollars OR pounds). Eg., 2000 Advanced Server is like US$1300 for just a 5-user license. SuSE (or other Linuxes) has the similar turn-key package for less (the Email Server product, which also includes the Enterprise Server suite, was advertised for US$999 - unlimited licenses for the email product).

I did some cost-outs last year for this at work. Another alternative for a turn-key email product is HP Openmail (which can run on windoze or *nix). That costs too (a bit more than SuSE's stuff), but it's still WAY cheaper than windoze server + Exchange. You could run Openmail on a free *nix and call it.
 
My 2 cents. It isnt that hard to install and configure a complete package with Linux and Admin it via WebMin. Just a thought. I have been able to set up email(QMail)/web(Apache)/db(MySQL)/bbs(PHP) machines on dual PPro 200 (256k) 128MB RAM and an 8GB HDD and never really have any problems. Just a thought.











SHUX
 
Thanks a lot for the replies guys 🙂

subflava - Yep, Thats exactly it. We are forced into getting some sort of email server as we are going wires-only ADSL (ie: the emails you are sent go directly to your IP, so you have to have an email server). Problem is, I have no Linux experience and we need the service NOW.. 🙂 Although the Raq and Qube products are far too powerful for what we need, that is their only major downside apart from limited upgradeability both sofeware side and hardware side.

Poof - Regardless of what subflava said (and in part he was right..), what you have contributed is very useful. See later on in this post for more info when I wrap-up this thread (we have come to a solution 🙂)

Shuxclams - Thats really cool, and exactly what I'd (we'd - as a company) like to be able to do. Unfortunately time constraints (combined with limited experience) prevent this being a solution this time round... although its something we'd like later on anyway, so its useful information 🙂

Everyone - Thanks very much for all the contribution. I am very torn as to which direction to take. The advantages/disadvantages of each route are clear - Cobalt's being ease of setup and cost features as both an advantage (in some cases - ie vs the solutions Poof mentioned. What we have ordered is £1200 - that is the Pro version with RAID.) and a disadvantage - a Linux distro + programs can be free... Linux's advantages being cost mainly and disadvantages being barriers to entry (needs some time to study, impliment etc - time we do not have 🙁)

However - We do plan to impliment some sort of Linux server to take advantage of the upgradeability. A database server would be very useful - FileMaker Pro 5 on Win NT 4 did not have a very good stability record - and that was with very limited traffic...

All - many thanks again. The level of knowledge found here is often second to none. Whats more - all of it is useful! 😀

Regards

Migroo
 
Benefits as I see them to the Sun Cobalt thingies:
Ease of setup
Ease of administration
Backed by a fairly large company (Sun)
Security should be decent on install
Less knowledge needed to run

Bad stuff:
Limited hardware and software upgrades
Limited customization

It is not a perfect solution, and not one I would personally consider under most circumstances, but the lack of Linux knowledge is what hurts you. This should keep all of the tricky stuff from ever crossing your retinas. Without plenty of knowledge and a little experience, a Linux server can be very tough to keep secure. This solution should help keep the insecurities to a minimum, although I havent checked up on them lately. It would definitely be a good solution (as far as I see it) for a small business, lacking knowledge of UNIX administration and the time to learn it. 🙂
 
Just a tidbit I wanted to pass along:

I'm having one H*LL of a time trying to get a replacement power adapter for a Qube2.
Since Sun has EOL'd it, they are less than useless at locating one.
Getting the distinct impression I'm SOL.

This kind of thing is the most annoying issue to deal with when suing proprietary/turnkey systems.

P.S. If anyone has a source for a replacement, I'm all ears.
 
Thanks for the follow-ups!

n0cmonkey - Yeah, thats right. I wasnt very thourough 🙂 Youre right about the lack of knowledge... The extent of it is the experience of running/installing SmoothWall quite a lot - and thats only 'based' on Linux... 😱

I fully intend to get to grips with it though, its a very good OS with capabilities I'd like to be able to use 🙂

TallGeese - Thanks for the contribution. I know it can be hell trying to get something like that. I had some RAM fail on me which took 2 months to complete the RMA cycle! Good luck in your quest 🙂

Regards
 


<< Thanks for the follow-ups!

n0cmonkey - Yeah, thats right. I wasnt very thourough 🙂 Youre right about the lack of knowledge... The extent of it is the experience of running/installing SmoothWall quite a lot - and thats only 'based' on Linux... 😱 >>



Dont think I was flaming you or anything. 🙂

 
LOL, no of course not, just saying you were correct 🙂

Not paranoid are we n0c? Or am I really following you? hehehe...

No, on a serious note, what you said was true - I was only acknowledging that.
 


<< LOL, no of course not, just saying you were correct 🙂

Not paranoid are we n0c? Or am I really following you? hehehe... >>



If you notice the last line in my sig you might understand. I actually had content in that post so I thought I may have been a little mean. Ive been accused of being mean and having a bad attitude... Can you imagine? 😕

 
About the lack of control using a cobalt device. It's true that there are many things that you can't do from the web based menus. However, most admins get around this by logging into a terminal session and working under the hood. Since the cobalt servers are based on redhad linux, you can do everything that you can do on a normal linux box. However, by fiddling in terminal mode, you could accidentally break the connection between the web configuration and the files they're supposed to control.

On my qube2, I recently (yesterday) learned how to install openssl and openssh. Then I shut down telnet. I just downloaded the source code for the two apps and followed directions. So you can get your hands dirty with these cobal products if you choose to do so.
 
Hehe dont get me tempted blstriker! 😀

Dont worry about it n0cmonkey - you did no harm! To be honest, no, I cant imagine people taking offence - maybe if they do they are too insecure. Then again you might get that reaction in Off Topic - but I never go in there 🙂
 
This is so cool!

The Qube 3 arrived about an hour ago - getting it running was so simple!

/me has a new toy 😀

Just to say thanks to everyone! 🙂
 


<< This is so cool!

The Qube 3 arrived about an hour ago - getting it running was so simple!

/me has a new toy 😀

Just to say thanks to everyone! 🙂 >>



Man, I just ordered most of the parts for my new toy last night. Im jealous 😛
 
Hehe

Well, its not without problems - specifically it wont send attachments with emails (it 'seems' to work, but when you open the recieved email, there is no attachment there.)

Nevermind, I'll go and hassle Cobalt's support forums 🙂
 
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