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Operation Safe Return. We need more of this.

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K1052 said:
Doug Ducey is that moron.

Going to be a real uphill one for her next year against Mark Kelly.
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I’m pretty sure alt-right media in that state will muster up the chutzpah required to claim Kelly is abandoning his special needs wife for personal glory and/or “milking” a gun tragedy.
 
UNCjigga said:
I’m pretty sure alt-right media in that state will muster up the chutzpah required to claim Kelly is abandoning his special needs wife for personal glory and/or “milking” a gun tragedy.
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I'm skeptical that right wing crazy is going to carry her over Kelly if it couldn't Sinema. Also her appointment after losing is going to be a huge liability plus Trump's approval in the state is -6 or -7 depending on the poll. That is quite a ways off the partisan lean of the state so going to be hard to count on him carrying the day for her either.
 
akenbennu said:
Well, hopefully the myriad of lawsuits will quash this before it gathers any steam.
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Please tell me that you don't actually think Trump will follow what a court tells him he has to do?

fskimospy said:
I also think it's kind of an odd idea that society would just accept a super-minority having such outsized political power. If it ever got that bad a change would be demanded as not only would the states with 1/3rd of the Senate seats be home to 70% of the population, they would also probably be home to about 80-85% of the country's GDP.

Interestingly enough, Max Kennerly pointed out that the Founders did have what they thought was a solution for this problem but I doubt anyone, in particular anyone in that 30% population, would want to see. Their answer was for the larger states to wage economic warfare against the smaller ones until they capitulated.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed62.asp



So basically from the perspective of the founders the correct answer would be for the dense, liberal states to destroy the economies of the South and rural west in retaliation. This seems like a bad plan to me so it would probably just be better if we admitted a few more states.
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I will have to agree with Alexander Hamilton on this one (he authored the piece that you linked, he has a way with words that Madison could never match), sorry fski, you and I usually agree on most things thou.

In a way, economic warfare between the States has been ongoing for over 40 years now and the States aren't doing it to each other. It's the "jerb creators" deciding to move most things overseas and leaving communities and whole states devastated in their wake. Nevermind all the pollution that they have left behind for the people to pay to clean up because the "jerb creators" can't possibly afford to do the cleanup, the good old privatize the profit and socialize the costs way of doing business.
 
Our big brain president has apparently decided to destroy the economy of Guatemala in a bid to stop migration.


Screen Shot 2019-07-23 at 8.14.36 AM.png
 
That's the equivalent of having the arresting officer decide then and there whether you are guilty or not.

Frankly given what has come out about ICE recently this sounds like nothing more than a pretense to shut the door harder.
 
Ok so apparently Trump at a TPUSA rally said he'll ban all Guatemalans from entering the United States. In addition to imposing trade penalties and other fines which are actually prohibited by our trade agreement with them.
 
K1052 said:
Conservative Republicans have scuttled every attempt at bipartisan immigration reform for at least the last decade plus.

For some of them there is too much political value in not fixing the problem, others want to shape the demography of the country for electoral and racial reasons. This latter group has only grown with Trump now that nativism and white nationalism have been mainstreamed by a far right party. I think the prospects for bipartisan immigration reform are worse now than probably any point in my lifetime.
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Both parties have done this.
 
Trump figures he can solve the migrant problem with a lie. Guatemala isn't a safe third country & everybody knows it.

"Any tariffs on remittances would impact most those who live day-to-day," he added. "Guatemala does not have the resources or the capacity to be a 'safe country.' Guatemala does not even have the resources to attend to its own citizens."
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...court-blocks-asylum-deal-190723184424663.html

If we could just starve 'em to death they wouldn't be bothering us at all.
 
Jhhnn said:
Gawd. When was the last time Dems exploited nativism & white nationalism?

It was 50 years ago. The whole political geography has shifted. Southern Democrats became Republicans, and here we are.
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Horse poop. They are currently refusing to fix the border now. So are the republicans.
 
fskimospy said:
Nope. Both major attempts to fix immigration law over the last 20 years were scuttled by Republicans.

Why even bother to lie about things so easily proven?
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BS Neither side is cooperating with the other except in Very Limited ways. Nothing of meaning is getting done.
 
pcgeek11 said:
BS Neither side is cooperating with the other except in Very Limited ways. Nothing of meaning is getting done.
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Republican Conservatives blocked both Bush and Obama from accomplishing comprehensive immigration reform. These are facts.
 
pcgeek11 said:
Horse poop. They are currently refusing to fix the border now. So are the republicans.
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Which has nothing to do with exploiting xenophobia & white nationalism. Not in the slightest. That's Trump's thing. He played it from the time he announced his candidacy. If you need to lie to yourself you should keep it to yourself if you don't want people to tell you what you're doing.
 
K1052 said:
Republican Conservatives blocked both Bush and Obama from accomplishing comprehensive immigration reform. These are facts.
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If that "comprehensive immigration reform" entailed path to citizenship with no (or basically no) penalties then I'm glad they blocked it. We cannot allow those who broke our immigration laws to be rewarded for it, period full stop. The price to allow them to stay after breaking our laws needs to be significant and done in a way that's a very, very public demonstration that will deter others from doing the same in the future.
 
glenn1 said:
If that "comprehensive immigration reform" entailed path to citizenship with no (or basically no) penalties then I'm glad they blocked it. We cannot allow those who broke our immigration laws to be rewarded for it, period full stop. The price to allow them to stay after breaking our laws needs to be significant and done in a way that's a very, very public demonstration that will deter others from doing the same in the future.
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You're so cute when you do that self righteous snit thing. They'll be staying in any event unless Trump & the haters get the massive immigration Gestapo force they've always dreamed of. You can't solve the problem by wishing we could get rid of them, because we won't. Face up to reality.
 
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