Operation Moderate Support.

[techs]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: CPA
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years. Of course, I get it, we can't credit Bush with any good (lebanon), we are only allowed to blame him for the bad (Iraq).

You are so full of crap.

Lebanon pleaded with Bush to call for a cease-fire (which Commander Codpiece ignored). Bush's antics toward Lebanon even provoked outrage from Tony Blair.

Feel free to respond when you are done polishing Bush's knob.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CPA
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years. Of course, I get it, we can't credit Bush with any good (lebanon), we are only allowed to blame him for the bad (Iraq).

I'd say it reaffirms DIPLOMACY (remember that?) being more effective than pre-emptive war and occupation, but that's just me. I always applauded Team Bush when they at least attempted to engage with their mouths vs. rushing in, guns blazing like a bunch of drunken cowboy idiots.

So let's give credit where credit is due, absolutely.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CPA
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years. Of course, I get it, we can't credit Bush with any good (lebanon), we are only allowed to blame him for the bad (Iraq).

I'd say it reaffirms DIPLOMACY (remember that?) being more effective than pre-emptive war and occupation, but that's just me. I always applauded Team Bush when they at least attempted to engage with their mouths vs. rushing in, guns blazing like a bunch of drunken cowboy idiots.

So let's give credit where credit is due, absolutely.

I guess you don't actually read threads, nor pay attention to the truth?
If you had you would have seen this previously:

Lebanon pleaded with Bush to call for a cease-fire (which Commander Codpiece ignored). Bush's antics toward Lebanon even provoked outrage from Tony Blair.

Feel free to respond when you are done polishing Bush's knob.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Painman
Some of y'all need to try and accept the distinct possibility that Iran simply wishes to remain a rogue, reactionary shithole. Remember United States of America, Election of November, 2004, before you assemble your displays of shock and dismay.

George Bush's camp did not count the ballots like Ahminijahn's mullahs did for this one. It's impossible that 2/3 of the voters would re-elect someone who has their unemployment at 30% and is incurring sanctions left and right while his people suffer the consequences.

Kudos for Lebanon, same shit different day for Mullah Iran. Gratz on the election fraud

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CPA
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years. Of course, I get it, we can't credit Bush with any good (lebanon), we are only allowed to blame him for the bad (Iraq).

I'd say it reaffirms DIPLOMACY (remember that?) being more effective than pre-emptive war and occupation, but that's just me. I always applauded Team Bush when they at least attempted to engage with their mouths vs. rushing in, guns blazing like a bunch of drunken cowboy idiots.

So let's give credit where credit is due, absolutely.

I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to either Bush or Obama. Both Cons and Libs have a tendency to overestimate America's role in things. I mean, look at the current dismay over DinnerJacket's apparent victory in Iran. Apparently, Obama's Magic Touch failed to induce the spewing of rainbows, lollipops and Magic Ponies from every orifice of every Iranian.

Maybe, Just Maybe, other countries of the world have gotten over the U.S.' exceptionalism (seeing as how it's currently bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq) and they're... making decisions for themselves? Leaving us behind?

America's Power around the globe is currently at an ebb, Obama notwithstanding. I wouldn't be so quick to attribute positive developments to his Presidency, esp. in light of such negative ones (DinnerJacket, Netanyahu, DPRK's recent weenie-waving).

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Painman
Some of y'all need to try and accept the distinct possibility that Iran simply wishes to remain a rogue, reactionary shithole. Remember United States of America, Election of November, 2004, before you assemble your displays of shock and dismay.

George Bush's camp did not count the ballots like Ahminijahn's mullahs did for this one. It's impossible that 2/3 of the voters would re-elect someone who has their unemployment at 30% and is incurring sanctions left and right while his people suffer the consequences.

Kudos for Lebanon, same shit different day for Mullah Iran. Gratz on the election fraud

What do you know about Iranian politics? Seriously. What do you know?

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Painman

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Painman
Some of y'all need to try and accept the distinct possibility that Iran simply wishes to remain a rogue, reactionary shithole. Remember United States of America, Election of November, 2004, before you assemble your displays of shock and dismay.

George Bush's camp did not count the ballots like Ahminijahn's mullahs did for this one. It's impossible that 2/3 of the voters would re-elect someone who has their unemployment at 30% and is incurring sanctions left and right while his people suffer the consequences.

Kudos for Lebanon, same shit different day for Mullah Iran. Gratz on the election fraud

What do you know about Iranian politics? Seriously. What do you know?

More than u?

 

[Sinsear]

Lol. "there must be fraud". "the mullahs counted the votes". Open your eyes hippies. Just because you read some news reports or see some tv coverage of a large city which happens to have some college kids who wear Levi's, does not mean the rest of the country feels the same way.

Air strikes.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
More than u?

Are you lost?

 

[Lemon law]

For what its worth, various riots and demonstration have erupted in Tehran over the probable fraud results of the election. So far Mousavi has appealed to the supreme Ayotalla
to no avail, the revolutionary guards vow to crush any rebellion, and the battle line are drawn.

The real question regards where its heading, the rebellion could simply peter out over time or keep gaining critical mass. As it is, due to a communications blackout, most Iranians
are still unaware of the widespread protests.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...xrA2NsYXNoZXNlcnVwdA--

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Painman
Some of y'all need to try and accept the distinct possibility that Iran simply wishes to remain a rogue, reactionary shithole. Remember United States of America, Election of November, 2004, before you assemble your displays of shock and dismay.

30% unemployment with double inflation rate and 69% of the population votes for a President who didn't deliver on anything but made the numbers worse?
That makes no sense at all.

The only thing Ahmadenijad did was blabber about Israel and the U.S all day long. I don't think the people of Iran give a sh!t about Israel or the U.S. They care about feeding their family.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Lol. "there must be fraud". "the mullahs counted the votes". Open your eyes hippies. Just because you read some news reports or see some tv coverage of a large city which happens to have some college kids who wear Levi's, does not mean the rest of the country feels the same way.

Air strikes.

70% of Iran is under the age of 30. Those kids are the population of Iran

The school system of Iran is a selective process. You have to take a test to go to college and they take the top students only. The ones who don't make the list have to go get a job. What job?
To think that the majority of the youth voted for Ahmad is just crazy. They voted for more years of misery?

 

[techs]

Woo Hoo.
Fighting in the streets of Tehran!!!

 

[Aimster]

The protesters will be crushed. This will all be over in a week
The police force and military force that are loyal to the Islamic Regime will crush any movement. People will be beaten, arrested, and many will simply disappear.

They counted 30 million votes by hand in less than a day.. someone needs to hire the counters of Iran to move to Florida.

 

[Aimster]

well at least they didn't ban youtube.. very large crowd the regime has pissed off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5V7WMsavBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ehq5QHXpVM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxH3ahdah2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKqgiN5YZaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMXt0OIzlk <-- police beating them up

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: CPA
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years. Of course, I get it, we can't credit Bush with any good (lebanon), we are only allowed to blame him for the bad (Iraq).

You are so full of crap.

Lebanon pleaded with Bush to call for a cease-fire (which Commander Codpiece ignored). Bush's antics toward Lebanon even provoked outrage from Tony Blair.

Feel free to respond when you are done polishing Bush's knob.

Why should Bush have involved himself in the conflict> I thought the idea was that America shouldn't go around imposing its values, police the world, or be arrogant in telling other countries what they should and shouldn't do.

Well, which one is it?

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Painman
Some of y'all need to try and accept the distinct possibility that Iran simply wishes to remain a rogue, reactionary shithole. Remember United States of America, Election of November, 2004, before you assemble your displays of shock and dismay.

30% unemployment with double inflation rate and 69% of the population votes for a President who didn't deliver on anything but made the numbers worse?
That makes no sense at all.

The only thing Ahmadenijad did was blabber about Israel and the U.S all day long. I don't think the people of Iran give a sh!t about Israel or the U.S. They care about feeding their family.

I don't know if you are familiar with me, but I have read enough of your posts to know that you are familiar with Iran, more than most people here.

But still. Let's say the election #s are false. Where do we (the US) go from here? We challenge the legitimacy of the election, and we are challenging the legitimacy of the Iranian Govt ---> 1953 all over again. At least, as far as political hay-making is concerned. Not Good.

After all, Obama DID admit to the Islamic world that we DID help to install the Shah... not that I'm complaining about this belated revelation.

Very, very thin ice here. Not much wiggle room.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Painman

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Painman
Some of y'all need to try and accept the distinct possibility that Iran simply wishes to remain a rogue, reactionary shithole. Remember United States of America, Election of November, 2004, before you assemble your displays of shock and dismay.

30% unemployment with double inflation rate and 69% of the population votes for a President who didn't deliver on anything but made the numbers worse?
That makes no sense at all.

The only thing Ahmadenijad did was blabber about Israel and the U.S all day long. I don't think the people of Iran give a sh!t about Israel or the U.S. They care about feeding their family.

I don't know if you are familiar with me, but I have read enough of your posts to know that you are familiar with Iran, more than most people here.

But still. Let's say the election #s are false. Where do we (the US) go from here? We challenge the legitimacy of the election, and we are challenging the legitimacy of the Iranian Govt ---> 1953 all over again. At least, as far as political hay-making is concerned. Not Good.

After all, Obama DID admit to the Islamic world that we DID help to install the Shah... not that I'm complaining about this belated revelation.

Very, very thin ice here. Not much wiggle room.

If it's Illegitimate, you gotta say it regardless of the dicey history. The US won't be the only Nation to bring up the point, so those with less Historical baggage might be able to influence the outcome of the criticism.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Contrary to what some think, Iran is not a monolithic culture dedicated to following the clerics into battle. Quite the opposite, they have a hatred of dictators but unfortunately there was no one but the hard core clerics to appeal to.

The people are distinctly unhappy

From all indications the moderate crushed the conservative hardliners, but in what I think is a great mistake, decided to thumb their noses in the face of the public. Iranians are highly nationalistic, and despite their religious views have historically taken only so much.

Considering that there are few times like this, it would be to our advantage to covertly contact any potential opposition and assist them in any way possible.

Iraq isn't a place which will convince anyone that democracy is a good model. It isn't even a natural country, being cobbled together by force, and commanded to stay that way by despotic leaders. Iran aka Persia has a history longer than our whole western culture. They are a proud people who once had democracy until it was taken from them by trickery. A democratic Iran favorable IMO is THE key to progress in the region, and yes progress is possible.

I think this is a tremendous opportunity to split the leadership, if done in a quiet but sincere way. We don't want to be identified in this, but there are a lot of unhappy people who just might be willing to take aid, even if we had to use a third party.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Lemon law
It looks like the 69% Achmadeinjad figure is based on very early returns, most likely from outlying rural districts where the incumbent is stronger. I do not think the city vote is in yet so its the last 81% of the vote that will tell the tale. And the polls, have only just closed.

We shall see, but I think its too early to tell. And already both sides are both crying victory and fraud.

Various news outlets are saying that Ahmacrazyguys challenger is alleging fraud, and has some pretty good evidence of it.
If Ahmacrazyguy did win by fraud, it won't help him much. Up til now he has been the legitimate elected president. If he's seen as illegitmate than Iran could face civil war.
What's a Mullah to do then? If they side with the crazy guy that's it for their legitimacy which by the way they still have amongst many, or they can step in and say Ahmacrazyguy lost.
Either way, if the people of Iran believe the election was stolen, its a whole new ballgame. Perhaps not just the election of moderate president but a real challenge to the Mullahs.


And as to CPA's ridiculous claim:
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years.

that's just plain made up bullshit. Bush backed Israel one hundred percent when the Israelis entered Lebanon in 2006. And the Lebanese pleaded with Bush to at least restrain Israel a little bit, like not raining down 4.6 million cluster sub-munitions across southern Lebanon in at least 962 separate strikes.
No, you just made shit up.

You ignored the first response in this thread. I said your assertion is easily proven. Otherwise it's more hot air. Prove to us that Obama's speech made a lick of different. The onus is on you, not vague guesses.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Lol. "there must be fraud". "the mullahs counted the votes". Open your eyes hippies. Just because you read some news reports or see some tv coverage of a large city which happens to have some college kids who wear Levi's, does not mean the rest of the country feels the same way.

Air strikes.

So you weren't kidding in the other thread. Yikes.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Lemon law
It looks like the 69% Achmadeinjad figure is based on very early returns, most likely from outlying rural districts where the incumbent is stronger. I do not think the city vote is in yet so its the last 81% of the vote that will tell the tale. And the polls, have only just closed.

We shall see, but I think its too early to tell. And already both sides are both crying victory and fraud.

Various news outlets are saying that Ahmacrazyguys challenger is alleging fraud, and has some pretty good evidence of it.
If Ahmacrazyguy did win by fraud, it won't help him much. Up til now he has been the legitimate elected president. If he's seen as illegitmate than Iran could face civil war.
What's a Mullah to do then? If they side with the crazy guy that's it for their legitimacy which by the way they still have amongst many, or they can step in and say Ahmacrazyguy lost.
Either way, if the people of Iran believe the election was stolen, its a whole new ballgame. Perhaps not just the election of moderate president but a real challenge to the Mullahs.


And as to CPA's ridiculous claim:
sorry, techs, but the lebanon situation had NOTHING to do with Obama's appeasement speech. Bush had been pushing Lebanon in this direction for years.

that's just plain made up bullshit. Bush backed Israel one hundred percent when the Israelis entered Lebanon in 2006. And the Lebanese pleaded with Bush to at least restrain Israel a little bit, like not raining down 4.6 million cluster sub-munitions across southern Lebanon in at least 962 separate strikes.
No, you just made shit up.

You ignored the first response in this thread. I said your assertion is easily proven. Otherwise it's more hot air. Prove to us that Obama's speech made a lick of different. The onus is on you, not vague guesses.

There is no way to prove it made a difference. I said that.
Yet, you are trying to say that threats and angry rhetoric are the same as measured language and an appeal for a new start and compromise?

Bah.

 

[techs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...go_ca_st_pe/us_us_iran

US rejects victory claim by Iran's Ahmadinejad

NIAGARA FALLS, Ontario ? The U.S. on Saturday refused to accept hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's claim of a landslide re-election victory in Iran and said it was looking into allegations of election fraud.



Yeah, baby.

 

[StageLeft]

Yet, you are trying to say that threats and angry rhetoric are the same as measured language and an appeal for a new start and compromise?

Am I? No, not even insuating it. I've always said the previous administration's belligerent approach was stupid. Really what I am saying is that you should get your mouth off Obama for just a moment so that you can properly credit him where it's due and not where it isn't.

NIAGARA FALLS, Ontario ? The U.S. on Saturday refused to accept hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's claim of a landslide re-election victory in Iran and said it was looking into allegations of election fraud.

Who cares? I didn't realize Iran's court cared what the US' official stance was on its elections. I'm sure the world will be even more impotent (if it's possible) with this election fraud issue than it is with North Korea.

The fact is the elections are a joke and Ahmed is going to run another term and that's that. Dissenters will be shut down.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Yet, you are trying to say that threats and angry rhetoric are the same as measured language and an appeal for a new start and compromise?

Am I? No, not even insuating it. I've always said the previous administration's belligerent approach was stupid. Really what I am saying is that you should get your mouth off Obama for just a moment so that you can properly credit him where it's due and not where it isn't.

NIAGARA FALLS, Ontario ? The U.S. on Saturday refused to accept hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's claim of a landslide re-election victory in Iran and said it was looking into allegations of election fraud.

Who cares? I didn't realize Iran's court cared what the US' official stance was on its elections. I'm sure the world will be even more impotent (if it's possible) with this election fraud issue than it is with North Korea.

The fact is the elections are a joke and Ahmed is going to run another term and that's that. Dissenters will be shut down.

might as well try to make it work, you never know. All you need is one movement, and if you never try, you'll never get anywhere.