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Operation against Uday and Qusai was not political assassination

AndrewR

Lifer
As if there was any question, but it seems there's a fair consensus.

Washington Times
July 25, 2003
Pg. 15

Sons' Slayings Called Justifiable

By David R. Sands, The Washington Times

International legal and human rights specialists said yesterday that Tuesday's firefight that resulted in the deaths of Saddam Hussein's sons did not violate a long-standing U.S. ban on political assassinations.

The wartime setting, the fierce resistance and the leadership roles of Uday and Qusai Hussein in the ousted Iraqi regime made the two sons legitimate targets of deadly force by coalition forces in the shootout, said Steven Ratner, a University of Texas law professor and former legal adviser at the State Department.

"Whether you are talking about the U.S. executive order [banning political assassinations] or international law, this incident ? at least as it's been reported ? does not run afoul of accepted practice," Mr. Ratner said.

U.S. military spokesmen have described an intense shootout at the complex in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, with those inside the compound firing on U.S. troops who demanded their surrender. The U.S. force had come to the Mosul site following up on a tip that Saddam's sons had hidden there.

"Given the amount of gunfire that came from that building, and the difficulty that the forces had in getting into the element of the building where they were located, it is, I think, obvious that there was no chance of taking them alive," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told a Pentagon briefing yesterday.

But Rep. Charles B. Rangel, New York Democrat, sharply criticized the killing of Saddam's two sons.

"We have a law on the books that the United States should not be assassinating anybody," Mr. Rangel said Tuesday evening on the Fox News show "Hannity and Colmes."

A 1976 executive order ? not law ? signed by President Ford and later modified by Presidents Carter and Reagan made it official government policy not to engage in or encourage political assassinations. The ban was imposed as a backlash against revelations of U.S. intelligence actions targeting Cuban leader Fidel Castro, Congo's Patrice Lumumba and others in the Cold War years.

But analysts said the ban does not prohibit U.S. forces from targeting legitimate enemy military and political leaders in wartime and does not prohibit the use of deadly force against figures who violently resist capture.

Tom Malinowski, Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, said his organization remains strongly in favor of the ban, even writing a letter to President Bush nine days after the September 11 attacks urging that it be kept in force.

But he said what is known of the Mosul firefight did not qualify as a targeted assassination.

"These two were obviously legitimate military targets," Mr. Malinowski said. "If indeed they were inside the compound firing at U.S. forces and refusing a legitimate offer to surrender, the American soldiers were within their rights to use deadly force."

Human Rights Watch is conducting its own on-the-ground survey of the conduct of both sides in the Iraq conflict, but Mr. Malinowski said the two U.S. missile strikes aimed at Saddam in March and April were legitimate actions by a combatant in wartime.

"By the same token, if a U.S. soldier had seen [Nazi Field Marshal Erwin] Rommel driving by in a jeep, it would have been justified under the laws of war to take a shot at him," Mr. Malinowski said.

The post-September 11 war on terrorism has sparked new debate on the assassination ban, with the Bush administration openly targeting Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda members in a shadowy, international campaign even though the executive order remains in force.

The U.S. administration also has repeatedly criticized the government of Israel for "targeted killings" of suspected Palestinian militants.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan rejected Mr. Rangel's charge that the assassination ban had been violated.

"This was a military operation, and command-and-control targets are what we will pursue," he said.
 
Yes it was and stupid. a) they could have told you were those supposed WMD's were since Uday was head of all programs b) attacks on troops has increased despite them going out in larger squads c) If you don't get Saddam and his whole family he will be gunning for anyone associated with the Bush Family.
 
This is the same 'Non-Assassination' documentation that they tried to invoke when they tried to hit Saddam
in the opening strike in the War when they struck a complex 2 hours before the 'American Timeline' ran down.

But you see, there was a chance of getting them, It's not an assassination if it's a Pre-Emptive War.
If we succeed in killing all their countries leaders, and there's noboddy left to surrender to us, we win.

It is quite obvious that in the aftermath of 9/11, there is an extended insecurity of our Nation by our Government.
Welcome, friends to America for the Paranoids, Land of the Fearsome, Home of Unbrave.

Wolf-breath even said ' We're too paranoid not to act on anything, no matter how inacurate.
Not actually those words , but that is his inner message.
"Look what we did for the 'Merican People" don't know what is ment but we done did protect us, Y'Heah ?

In fear of not-acting they over-react. It's assassination. Textbook.

You know we could have waited them out if we wanted to, but that's not what you do with an Army is it ?

 
"You know we could have waited them out if we wanted to, but that's not what you do with an Army is it ?"


Exactly or gas them to move the process a little quicker along. Either way they were targeted for asassination... Not that I feel bad.... but for the Other caravans we targeted thinking it was Saddam or his sons what about those people?
 
Do not think about those other caravans. There were no other caravans There were no caravans. There was nothing at all. Nothing ever happened at all. It's a beautiful day in Iraq and things are looking up.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Do not think about those other caravans. There were no other caravans There were no caravans. There was nothing at all. Nothing ever happened at all. It's a beautiful day in Iraq and things are looking up.

I don't know what it is about me.... I think about the 14 year old boy too... Weak and UnAmerican I suppose.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Yes it was and stupid. a) they could have told you were those supposed WMD's were since Uday was head of all programs b) attacks on troops has increased despite them going out in larger squads c) If you don't get Saddam and his whole family he will be gunning for anyone associated with the Bush Family.

Uday was not head of all programs -- prove otherwise if you can. Even assuming that Qusay had some control over WMD programs, and I have seen no concrete evidence that this was the case, the allegation that he would know where everything is borders on the absurd since he's at the very top (and has other responsibilities to boot). Attacks on our troops will continue regardless of the presence of the Saddam boys and Saddam himself since those people have very little to lose given that they're likely to face the wrath of those they were personally responsible for repressing/torturing/raping/etc. Lastly, Saddam and his cohorts are too busy trying to save their own asses that they don't have too much time attempting to kill anyone in the Bush family on the other side of the world.
 
Yeah, they could have just lured Uday and Qusai out of the house by putting a large quantity of Courvasier, silk boxers, a few hundred capsules of Viagra and some smutty porn ("Fedayeen Girls Gone Wild"?) out in the courtyard. Once the brothers tried to sneak out and snag the loot, they could have tranked 'em just like a pair of wild boars.

Foooooot! Zzzzzzzzz.
 
How do you pumped the gas or throw a gas grenade into a room on second floor described as being built like a fortress with bullet-proof glass and thick concrete wall all around? If not so, the building would have been reduced to nothing after countless missiles attack the army lobbed at them...
 
Collateral damage that occurs during an operation designed to effect the elimination of the senor members of the former government must be considered excusable given this was not a political assassination... like the MOAB's and Thumper Buster whatevers we dropped in the heart of Baghdad... stuff happens... and we did get the quarry... things are looking up.. we won't be needing to bomb or straffe any more caravans and busses and stuff... folks can travel with a sense of security..
 
Originally posted by: cpumaster
How do you pumped the gas or throw a gas grenade into a room on second floor described as being built like a fortress with bullet-proof glass and thick concrete wall all around? If not so, the building would have been reduced to nothing after countless missiles attack the army lobbed at them...

How about playing some Elton John or what ever they played for Noriegga in Panama... We coulda had fun with this one.. never fire a shot and wait em out... bring the Arab Press and all the witnesses to see how the sons of saddam give up and face the music .. so to speak.. but to answer specifically, ... they do breathe air... so air gots to get in somehow... and that somehow is a means for the gas to knock em out gets in too.. unless they have some other means of breathing..

 
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: cpumaster
How do you pumped the gas or throw a gas grenade into a room on second floor described as being built like a fortress with bullet-proof glass and thick concrete wall all around? If not so, the building would have been reduced to nothing after countless missiles attack the army lobbed at them...

How about playing some Elton John or what ever they played for Noriegga in Panama... We coulda had fun with this one.. never fire a shot and wait em out... bring the Arab Press and all the witnesses to see how the sons of saddam give up and face the music .. so to speak.. but to answer specifically, ... they do breathe air... so air gots to get in somehow... and that somehow is a means for the gas to knock em out gets in too.. unless they have some other means of breathing..

yeah, but in Noriega case, we fully controlled the situation, and the population are behind us. In this case, although it happened up north in Mosul, it is in area where pro-Saddam sentiments are still quite strong (Arab community), plus I read that the field commander was afraid that a prolong siege may become a rallying point for attack from their supporters at the US troops surrounding the compound.
About the air situation, I believe from what I read on news sites, the second floor has extra thick concrete wall around it and bullet proof windows, but it's not a nuclear bunker where people inside get their air from ventilated source, the room seems to be quite open for air to come in and out or to shoot at the troops down there, just not big enough to lob or shoot a gas grenade or too risky to do that... plus maybe they don't have gas granade or gas pumping equipment with them in Iraq? after all they are military, not the police...
 
the teenager was still alive AFTER the supposed "overkill" of bombing, he was taken out when they finally got inside. You may think they went too far, but there was at least one person still alive and shotting after the big stuff had fallen.
 
I don't understand the "military target" aspect of this deal. We never declared war in the first place, and Bush told us the war was over anyway. What was their status? War criminal? Enemy combatant? Terrorist? Was the action that took them out a military or police action?

As for a prolonged standoff, I would think that if they expected a lot of sympathizers to show up at the scene that it would be a good thing. It has appearently been pretty tough trying to find small groups and individuals who want to keep shooting at the troops. Why not have a magnet for them where they come to you on ground already prepared and manned? We can certainly move men and weapons faster than they can. We could have sucked a bunch of these guys into a place where they could be taken care of all at once.
 
All you "they were assassinated" guys are idiots. Assassins don't give targets the choice of staying alive, nor do they advertise who they are looking for and why. Both Qusay and Uday were worth far more alive than dead, and had it been possible, the troops would have gladly taken them in alive. If you all weren't so busy foaming at the mouth over your conspiracy theories, you might have remembered Sadaam's early statements before the war detailing how he and his people would 'never surrender, and fight the invading infidel to the end.' Loyalty to their father aside, the Brothers Stalin weren't morons, they knew what being captured meant - having to answer to the Iraqi people over their penchants for rape, torture, and murder.
 
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