Openly carrying sidearm causes concerns

[HAL9000]

You are a fool. A firearm is a tool, it doesn't jump up on it's own and kill people.

A tool do what? Kill people? Yeah I thought so.

So they checked anf had no proof of any crime being commited. At that point they should leave the law abiding citizens alone, no?

How did they check? The guy wouldn't let them.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Thank You.

All I've been trying to say is the Police did have the right to talk to the guy, and that presenting an ID would have made the encounter a LOT smoother.

No matter how much smoother it could have been there is no reason for the citizen to comply. He exercised his right to bear arms and exercised his right to be completely anonymous. Police are lawful when asking him questions but in light that no crime had been committed it was also lawful for the citizen to reject their inquisition.

The thing that is important here is not whether Police can question (they can and do) but whether the citizen knows his rights. If you do not exercise your rights you might as well have none at all. There is nothing about your rights that can be deemed "douchebaggery". To think someone is a douche because they demanded their rights be upheld really makes me wonder where your mind is and if you really care about those rights to begin with.

Being in the position of power a Police Officer must not only uphold the law but know it as well. These Police Officers knew the law, knew they could not make him present an I.D., but tried intimidate him by continually asking in hopes he would give it up. This is where harassment is induced IMO. I'm sure they have heard people try to avert giving up their I.D.'s before only to have coaxed them into giving it up later which is why I suspect they continued to ask.

Police - Can I see some I.D.?
Me - Am I under arrest or suspected of a crime?
Police - Can I see some I.D.?
Me - According to the law I am not required show show I.D. unless I am under arrest or suspected of a crime
Police - Why are you out here tonight?
Me - Am I being detained? Am I free to go?
Police - Where are you heading?
Me - Am I being detained or am I free to go?

I would suspect you would think I am being a douche bag?

 

[fskimospy]

I cannot believe this argument is still going on.

Police officers will talk to someone and ask them questions after a complaint is filed about them.

This should not be controversial. If the guy were a Muslim or something I'm sure people here would consider that GOOD POLICE WORK. A guy walking around town with a gun? NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

 

[Scotteq]

No matter how much smoother it could have been there is no reason for the citizen to comply. He exercised his right to bear arms and exercised his right to be completely anonymous. Police are lawful when asking him questions but in light that no crime had been committed it was also lawful for the citizen to reject their inquisition.

I understand he didn't "have" to.


I also opine that the extended interview clearly was his own fault. He didn't do anything wrong, so answer a couple polite and simple questions and be on your way.

 

[Perknose]

No YOU are incorrect. Indeed every single poster maintaining that there was a good and legal reason for the police to have detained and forced to show their papers of this two law-abiding citizens are completely, and utterly wrong.

Wrong. wrong. wrong.

Your utter ignorance of the law is no damn excuse, either.

Sorry Perky, your personal bias against firearms (bring on the claims of "ZOMG but I own the firearmz tooo!!!") doesn't just magically make you right.

If this guys were stopped and detained, and forced to show ID because they were handing out pamphlets for their democrat rally, you would be crying bloody murder and you know it.

Sorry, bub, but you're wrong.

Your ignorance of the applicable legal reasons why you're wrong is no excuse, and your lame-ass and unimaginative personal attacks are no substitute are not substitute for not having educated yourself.

So sorry.

 

[NoStateofMind]

I understand he didn't "have" to.

Okay so whats the problem? Everyone (I think) agrees that it may have resolved the issue much faster however he didn't have to and therefore didn't. Only thing he was doing is making sure his rights were adhered to and thats nowhere near being a douche, at least, not in my book.

 

[xj0hnx]

But it damned well *DOES* give the Police cause to investigate whether one has taken place.

So then you think the police should just be able to stop anyone and see their papers, because well golly gee, they could have committed a crime. Are they going to take a ballistics report from his gun? Check him for GSR? Where's the body? No, someone complaining doesn't automatically give the police the right to stop and detain people that are obviously not doing anything wrong Probable cause isn't someone complaining that someone is carrying their legally allowed firearm.

..and in this case, an extended interview, since the individual wouldn't answer even the simplest questions.

He shouldn't have been stopped in the first place, and was under no obligation to further entertain the police's fishing expedition.

 

[xj0hnx]

Sorry, bub, but you're wrong.

Your ignorance of the applicable legal reasons why you're wrong is no excuse, and your lame-ass and unimaginative personal attacks are no substitute are not substitute for not having educated yourself.

So sorry.

Why don't you try presenting some kind of fact instead of trite bullshit? Your opinion doesn't matter. Your "lame-ass" hasn't posted ...anything other then uneducated dribble.

Debate these facts;

Open carry is legal in Maine
Maine is not a stop and identify state
the guy wasn't doing anything illegal

 

[spidey07]

I cannot believe this argument is still going on.

Police officers will talk to someone and ask them questions after a complaint is filed about them.

This should not be controversial. If the guy were a Muslim or something I'm sure people here would consider that GOOD POLICE WORK. A guy walking around town with a gun? NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

That's why more folks need to open carry. To make it common place and scared sheep don't freak out at the sign of a secure and holstered weapon. Police shouldnt respond unless criminal or suspicious activity is observed.

911 - what's your emergency?
There's a guy with a holstered weapon. Omg.

911 - so? Is a crime being committed or are you in danger?
Well no. But hes got a holstered gun!

911 - so? Call back when there's a problem.
(click)

 

[NoStateofMind]

So then you think the police should just be able to stop anyone and see their papers, because well golly gee, they could have committed a crime. Are they going to take a ballistics report from his gun? Check him for GSR? Where's the body? No, someone complaining doesn't automatically give the police the right to stop and detain people that are obviously not doing anything wrong Probable cause isn't someone complaining that someone is carrying their legally allowed firearm.



He shouldn't have been stopped in the first place, and was under no obligation to further entertain the police's fishing expedition.

Maybe I'm understanding him wrong but from what I gather is he isn't saying "papers please" he just saying they have a duty to investigate. I would agree they can question all they want but at some point that would turn into harassment given that the citizen doesn't play their games. He must state early and often that he knows his rights and the laws in question or he can and will be taken advantage of. These cops were not stupid, they knew the law and at some point realized they could not make this ole chap give up any of his rights so they moved on. Smart move on their part.

 

[Scotteq]

So then you think the police should just be able to stop anyone and see their papers, because well golly gee, they could have committed a crime. Are they going to take a ballistics report from his gun? Check him for GSR? Where's the body? No, someone complaining doesn't automatically give the police the right to stop and detain people that are obviously not doing anything wrong Probable cause isn't someone complaining that someone is carrying their legally allowed firearm.



He shouldn't have been stopped in the first place, and was under no obligation to further entertain the police's fishing expedition.

No _ I believe the Police have an obligation to act on a citizen's complaint, adn that he damned well should have been stopped as a result.

 

[fskimospy]

That's why more folks need to open carry. To make it common place and scared sheep don't freak out at the sign of a secure and holstered weapon. Police shouldnt respond unless criminal or suspicious activity is observed.

911 - what's your emergency?
There's a guy with a holstered weapon. Omg.

911 - so? Is a crime being committed or are you in danger?
Well no. But hes got a holstered gun!

911 - so? Call back when there's a problem.
(click)

Of course, people should change their lives to suit your ultra right wing tastes.

Almost no one WANTS to openly carry pistols around town with them. I sure as hell know that if I were in a town where everyone were carrying guns around on their waist, I'd find a better town to live in.

 

[fskimospy]

No _ I believe the Police have an obligation to act on a citizen's complaint, adn that he damned well should have been stopped as a result.

Seriously, can you imagine the furor that would erupt if the police got a call for a 'man with a gun' and DIDN'T respond?

 

[xj0hnx]

No _ I believe the Police have an obligation to act on a citizen's complaint, adn that he damned well should have been stopped as a result.

He should be stopped for ... not doing anything wrong?

 

[NoStateofMind]

That's why more folks need to open carry. To make it common place and scared sheep don't freak out at the sign of a secure and holstered weapon. Police shouldnt respond unless criminal or suspicious activity is observed.

911 - what's your emergency?
There's a guy with a holstered weapon. Omg.

911 - so? Is a crime being committed or are you in danger?
Well no. But hes got a holstered gun!

911 - so? Call back when there's a problem.
(click)

Off this topic but it reminds me of a commercial I once heard on the radio. It was some house alarm thing or gun ownership ad but it went something like this:

(Phone rings) Mr soandso the alarm has been sounded and police are on their way, are you ok?

"Yeah but I dont know about the guy on the floor" (apparently shot)

I cant tell it like I heard it but it was damned funny!

 

[Perknose]

Why don't you try presenting some kind of fact instead of trite bullshit? Your opinion doesn't matter. Your "lame-ass" hasn't posted ...anything other then uneducated dribble.

Debate these facts;

Open carry is legal in Maine
Maine is not a stop and identify state
the guy wasn't doing anything illegal

They sure as hell could have been committing a crime under Maine law, and the only way those officers could have detemined whether they were was to investigate, which would start with them presenting their ID.

This isn't my opinion, nor is it "uneducated dribble." In fact, if anyone is spewing "uneducated dribble" it would be you. My 'opinion', as you call it, is backed by Maine law.

I'm not here to educate you on Maine law. Please educate yourself. Just . . . educate yourself.

Those two officers not only had the right, but the duty to politely but firmly investigate this situation.

 

[xj0hnx]

Of course, people should change their lives to suit your ultra right wing tastes.

So observing, and protecting rights you don't like is "ultra right wing"? HAHAHA what a hack.

Almost no one WANTS to openly carry pistols around town with them.

Ahh opinion stated as fact, funny.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Of course, people should change their lives to suit your ultra right wing tastes.

Almost no one WANTS to openly carry pistols around town with them. I sure as hell know that if I were in a town where everyone were carrying guns around on their waist, I'd find a better town to live in.

I would feel the opposite. I'm willing to bet crime would drop considerably.

 

[shortylickens]

NO!
YOUR penis is the small penis!!!

 

[NoStateofMind]

NO!
YOUR penis is the small penis!!!

 

[fskimospy]

So observing, and protecting rights you don't like is "ultra right wing"? HAHAHA what a hack.

What right don't I like? Why don't you go search my post history and see what I think about the second amendment. Hahaha, what an idiot. What I took exception with was Spidey saying that there needs to be more open carry so people like it more. Ridiculous.

Ahh opinion stated as fact, funny.

Open carry is legal in many many places in the United States, yet I am not aware of a single municipality of any significant size where the average citizen openly carries a firearm.

Dude, you're getting owned by about 5 different people in this thread, don't you think you might want to cut your losses? You've been reduced to cowering in the corner mindlessly repeating 'if the guy didn't commit a crime the cops shouldn't talk to him', something that is not only manifestly untrue, but manifestly stupid. (it would be impossible to investigate large numbers of crimes if they followed your master plan)

 

[xj0hnx]

They sure as hell could have been committing a crime under Maine law, and the only way those officers could have detemined whether they were was to investigate, which would start with them presenting their ID.

So could anyone walking down the street. I know it makes your ignorant head explode, but openly carrying a firearm there isn't a crime.

This isn't my opinion, nor is it "uneducated dribble."

Yes, it is, 100% opinion ...and dribble.

I'm not here to educate you on Maine law. Please educate yourself. Just . . . educate yourself.

You'd have to know it to educate anyone on it.

Those two officers ....

Realized they were wrong and backed off, and let him go. Win.

 

[fskimospy]

I would feel the opposite. I'm willing to bet crime would drop considerably.

Hey man, go find that town then! Live the dream!

 

[Jadow]

imo both sides acted reasonably

 

[Perknose]

NO!
YOUR penis is the small penis!!!

A STRONG argument against open carry "of sorts" for some! Who wants to see some loser's pencil stub flapping in the breeze!

Nevertheless, once they received a complaint, those two officers had a duty to investigate this situation further, which can only begin with those armed guys furnishing their ID's.