Explain your thinking, because I don't get it. If they were being nice in leaving their AP open for all to use, why would they name the SSID = "DON'T MAKE ILLEGAL CONNECTIONS!!!"? I saw it as their form of a "scare tactic" to try to stop people from connecting to their network which they were unable to secure.
Explain your thinking, because I don't get it. If they were being nice in leaving their AP open for all to use, why would they name the SSID = "DON'T MAKE ILLEGAL CONNECTIONS!!!"? I saw it as their form of a "scare tactic" to try to stop people from connecting to their network which they were unable to secure.
Is it stealing to take money out of the collection plate at church?
There is no security there... ... ...
You make the call!
Well, let's see, bandwidth is not a free thing, and they are paying for it. You are using theirs without permission. How could that NOT be stealing?
But, doesn't mean it's really a big deal to do, as long as you're just browsing websites and only doing it occasionally. If you do it every day, and download gigs of data, then please, stop leeching.
But, doesn't mean it's really a big deal to do, as long as you're just browsing websites and only doing it occasionally. If you do it every day, and download gigs of data, then please, stop leeching.
That's a lame argument. If I steal money from a church, then they are out money that should have been their's. If I connect to an open AP, then the owner of that AP is not getting kicked offline or loosing out on money, they're still paying their ISP that same bill each month.
I think that if was a temporary situation then it's fine to be connecting. But if I lived at the place and was constantly connected to someone else's network then I would contact them and ask if they'd be interested in letting me set something up where I'd be paying half of their bill for internet or something like that.
Why does it matter if there is a law against it or not?
The only and obvious truth to the situation is you would be using something that someone else hasn't given you permission to use. Whether or not you call it "stealing" is irrelevent. It's not morally right.
Why don't you just go ask him if you can use it? You guys could share the connection and get high speed for 1/2 price.
The only and obvious truth to the situation is you would be using something that someone else hasn't given you permission to use. Whether or not you call it "stealing" is irrelevent. It's not morally right.
Why don't you just go ask him if you can use it? You guys could share the connection and get high speed for 1/2 price.
Who says it's "not morally right"? You? That's the whole issue. To some this isn't against any morals. Just becuase you feel it isn't right doesn't mean anything to me.
I don't know how anyone could defend using the AP without the guys knowldege and permission as being morally right.
If the guy left the connection open intentionally, he probably would have named the connection "open connection" or something that could be used to identify that he wants others to use his connection.
If the guy doesn't know his connection is open, nobody knows what he wants to do with his connection unless they ask him. You cannot assume he wants you to use the connection just because it's open.
until I get the stupid LAN working I will use that dude's or 's open connection.
This LAN will work with the desktop this here, but when I connect the LAN to laptop, it says my connection is limited and need router to assign IP.
What can I do? the instructions are not in english. err
I saw plenty open wireless with a name "linksys"
BTW, how do you turn off SSID and use mac address? At home, I just turn on the WEP 124bit encryption.
This LAN will work with the desktop this here, but when I connect the LAN to laptop, it says my connection is limited and need router to assign IP.
What can I do? the instructions are not in english. err
I saw plenty open wireless with a name "linksys"
BTW, how do you turn off SSID and use mac address? At home, I just turn on the WEP 124bit encryption.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
So if I give a bum a buck...
Open=giving out resources.
Again, link to the law.
Are you fvcking serious, the questions is: is it legal? The law is everything in the courthouse...
Morally right is up to the individual, until society deems an action illegal.
Easy solution...
Any item must be possessed to be stolen..... for example...a mountain dew that I own. Someone could steal it. You can't own bandwidth...the bandwidth you are RENTING actually belongs to your cable company or whoever you rent from. They would have to enforce it wouldn't they? Or am I way off here?
Either way..if someone is dumb enough to go wireless and not secure it...they deserve to learn the lesson of why not to do it. Besides, isn't it better that someone learn the lesson by a neighbor using bandwidth rather than some unknown hacking into the system?
Any item must be possessed to be stolen..... for example...a mountain dew that I own. Someone could steal it. You can't own bandwidth...the bandwidth you are RENTING actually belongs to your cable company or whoever you rent from. They would have to enforce it wouldn't they? Or am I way off here?
Either way..if someone is dumb enough to go wireless and not secure it...they deserve to learn the lesson of why not to do it. Besides, isn't it better that someone learn the lesson by a neighbor using bandwidth rather than some unknown hacking into the system?
Why not ask..... unless you are scared that they will secure it and shut it off from other. They prolly don't know. Alot of ppl are uneducated about wireless security. They usually buy a wireless router cuz some guy at Best Buy told them they could use thier laptop without wires but failed to mention so can everyone else unless you enable the security features.
Again, he lives in a high-rise condo which means there are hundreds if not thousands of housing units within wifi range. Do you think he should go door-to-door asking everyone what their SSID is?
eer pressure;
Uppsala9496
Diamond Member
- Nov 2, 2001
- 5,272
- 19
- 81
One of my neighbors in my condo complex leaves their wireless unsecured. If I was an ass I could really cause trouble for them......seems they have a faster connection than I do for some reason. Same isp....
Yes its stealing.
You are stealing something that doesn't belong to you.
I really don't see how it can be seen any other way.
So for those that seem to think its OK this is perfectly analogous to hooking up to your neighbors phone lines and making local calls.
You are stealing something that doesn't belong to you.
I really don't see how it can be seen any other way.
So for those that seem to think its OK this is perfectly analogous to hooking up to your neighbors phone lines and making local calls.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
If they opened it up wirelessly, sure. It's not a fair comaprison because to "hook up" to your neighbors phone line you break a number of other laws, usually starting with breaking and entering or at least tresspassing. Now, if there was an open pair run to the street, maybe it'd be a fairer comparison. Even then there is the useage fees (LD) that bills back to the line owner which has not similar comparison for wifi. It's just a BAD comaprison all around.
If it can't be seen in any other way, then all of the free wifi can't be legal, right? Because how the hell do you know if the person is trying to provide it to everyone or not?
There are LOTS of people providing free wifi from their home connection, and they WANT to. Just google and you'll see.
I see it as a perfect comparison. thing is I work in wireless networking/telecomm so using somebody's service without their permission is wrong and quite possibly illegal.
Tapping into your neighbors phone line is exactly the same as using their wireless with the exception of "all you can eat" services. Hence why I limited it to local/no charge calls.
And if you want to setup a wireless hotspot to freely provide acces then you arrage a web page that notifies them that it is a free publically available service.
the neighbor's network is a PRIVATE network, not a public one.
Tapping into your neighbors phone line is exactly the same as using their wireless with the exception of "all you can eat" services. Hence why I limited it to local/no charge calls.
And if you want to setup a wireless hotspot to freely provide acces then you arrage a web page that notifies them that it is a free publically available service.
the neighbor's network is a PRIVATE network, not a public one.
Phoenix86
Lifer
- May 21, 2003
- 14,644
- 10
- 81
Not everyone who can setup wifi (actually it's the lack of setup, which is even easier) can setup/host a web page. Remember, lots of consumers are doing this, not just businesses.
Private/public. That's a tricky position, they are broadcasting the signal which is open...
If I broadcast sound from speakers in my house (say outside), and your listening from your house, is that theft?
Theft of service, show me the loss. You can't have theft w/o losses (IE $$$). I don't think the "I lost bandwidth" argument that'd fly very far in court, or with a jury. You pay a flat fee, not $/MB.
Has anyone ever been arrested for accessing an open wifi?
EDIT: Oh, and to even see that web page about authorization for free ones. You'd have to access the wifi first...
On a similar note, would it be illegal if I set up an open wifi network, wait for people to connect, then probe their system/sniff the traffic/etc.?
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