Oops.. health law blunder

[PokerGuy]

This is what happens when you pass legislation that is thousands of pages long without proper prior vetting and reading.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43490650/ns/health-health_care/

Oops. I guess that means millions of additional people that are not in any way "needy" will now qualify for Medicaid that's designed to help out the poor and needy.

Nor surprising when you pass massive legislation and have idiots like Nanci Pelosi saying things like

We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.

I'm sure there will be plenty more blunders uncovered as the entire mess unfolds over the next couple of years. Thanks Dims!

 

[CycloWizard]

I'm shocked! But not really.

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Wow, a president actually doing something to help the middle class, even if it was done inadvertently.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wow, a president actually doing something to help the middle class, even if it was done inadvertently.

That's awesome dude. Now you have a few thousand bucks a year you are going to kick in for this? Because incompetence or deceit is so wonderful.

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Nah, just treat all capital gains as income. That should cover it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nah, just treat all capital gains as income. That should cover it.

I take it you have no idea what Medicaid costs. Tell me, what other surprises lurk in this? Was this much praised legislation deliberately made faulty, or did those who we were told were competent to legislate on this matter really not?

Fools or liars?

Before this was rammed through I said that there should be expert assessment in detail as to the state of health care, what needs actually existed, what could be done to improve health care itself, and suggestions to create a viable sustainable system. "Oh no we already know what to do. "Oh Congress has people who will look into things for them" "Oh we don't need studies. People have been looking at health care for decades" Well now some of the hens have come home to roost, there is no long term solution for anything, but we will blow any costs savings we lied about, er didn't understand, er whatever. BOO YAH!

Incompetence is bad medicine.

 

[fskimospy]

I take it you have no idea what Medicaid costs. Tell me, what other surprises lurk in this? Was this much praised legislation deliberately made faulty, or did those who we were told were competent to legislate on this matter really not?

Fools or liars?

Before this was rammed through I said that there should be expert assessment in detail as to the state of health care, what needs actually existed, what could be done to improve health care itself, and suggestions to create a viable sustainable system. "Oh no we already know what to do. "Oh Congress has people who will look into things for them" "Oh we don't need studies. People have been looking at health care for decades" Well now some of the hens have come home to roost, there is no long term solution for anything, but we will blow any costs savings we lied about, er didn't understand, er whatever. BOO YAH!

Incompetence is bad medicine.

We've talked about this before. Expert assessments in detail to the state of health care have been done on a continuing basis for decades. To commission a new one at the time would take far longer than the Congress would even be in session. (if you've never noticed, 'commissioning a study' is a way for Congress to do nothing because the studies take enough time that a new Congress with new priorities is in, and it gets thrown in the trash)

In any legislation which covers an area of the economy this large there are bound to be mistakes and unintended consequences. You address them as you go forward, no big deal. It obviously wasn't 'made faulty', that's tinfoil hat batshittery.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

We've talked about this before. Expert assessments in detail to the state of health care have been done on a continuing basis for decades. To commission a new one at the time would take far longer than the Congress would even be in session. (if you've never noticed, 'commissioning a study' is a way for Congress to do nothing because the studies take enough time that a new Congress with new priorities is in, and it gets thrown in the trash)

In any legislation which covers an area of the economy this large there are bound to be mistakes and unintended consequences. You address them as you go forward, no big deal. It obviously wasn't 'made faulty', that's tinfoil hat batshittery.

And no study was commissioned to look at the current state of health care with an eye on the long term in the context of actual implementation. Remember how this was going to save oh so much money? Where's that now?

Rather than applying considerable effort to get better legislation you just say "oh it's too big to get perfect. That would take forever". Well jamming everything together with the first priority of making political hay, not bothering to explain what was going to happen, indeed not knowing what was going on, but by Cthulhu we're going to get something done by election time is hardly commendable.

There are always unintended consequences. Pretending that minimizing them in advance is unnecessary because things will be fixed and go forward is sheer lunacy. Medicaid is incredibly flawed. How long has that been going on? Has that been fixed and we moved on? No, not at all. But, THIS time we'll get it right. We don't need to worry, just write something haphazard and it will right itself like it always does, but doesn't Don't worry, be happy.

This is merely the first opportunity for apologists to line up. Everything however badly conceived will be "no big deal". They want it so badly that no matter how bad it is, they'll find an excuse to justify it.

 

[Texashiker]

If I pay into Medicaid, why cant I use it? Why do I have to pay for something, but can not use it?

Would you pay for a car, and not be able to drive it?

As far as I am concerned, if someone is going to have Medicaid/Medicare deducted from their pay check, they should be able to draw benefits.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If I pay into Medicaid, why cant I use it? Why do I have to pay for something, but can not use it?

Would you pay for a car, and not be able to drive it?

As far as I am concerned, if someone is going to have Medicaid/Medicare deducted from their pay check, they should be able to draw benefits.

Let other people handle your finances.

 

[Slew Foot]

What got more scrutiny? Palins emails or the Heath care bill?

 

[matt0611]

"We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."

Lol, yup

 

[Texashiker]

Let other people handle your finances.

The government does that already, and look at the amount of debt they are in.

The government can not even pass a balanced budget, while I live within my means.

Medicaid should be deducted off your taxes at the end of the year, because its like giving to the needy. If I pay into medicaid, I should be able to either draw benefits or write the dedications off my income taxes.

 

[wirednuts]

OMG this is the end of this country!!

The change would affect early retirees: A married couple could have an annual income of about $64,000 and still get Medicaid, said officials who make long-range cost estimates for the Health and Human Services department.
After initially downplaying any concern, the Obama administration said late Tuesday it would look for a fix.
Up to 3 million more people could qualify for Medicaid in 2014 as a result of the anomaly. That's because, in a major change from today, most of their Social Security benefits would no longer be counted as income for determining eligibility.
It might be compared to allowing middle-class people to qualify for food stamps.

 

[Texashiker]

After initially downplaying any concern, the Obama administration said late Tuesday it would look for a fix.
Up to 3 million more people could qualify for Medicaid in 2014

We would not want the profits of the insurance companies to drop now would we?

3 million people on medicaid = 3 million people not having to buy from a insurance company. Oh the horror of it all.

Once the insurance companies hear about this, they will call obama directly. From there I am sure some kind of modification will be pushed through congress on a fast track.

 

[Fear No Evil]

We would not want the profits of the insurance companies to drop now would we?

3 million people on medicaid = 3 million people not having to buy from a insurance company. Oh the horror of it all.

Once the insurance companies hear about this, they will call obama directly. From there I am sure some kind of modification will be pushed through congress on a fast track.

Whats a couple dozen billion dollars among friends? Oh wait, because the insurance companies aren't paying for it - it must be free!

 

[ProfJohn]

I am surprised more liberals aren't here saying how this is a good thing.

I thought they wanted Medicare for all? Seems like a step in the right direction for them.

 

[Texashiker]

Whats a couple dozen billion dollars among friends? Oh wait, because the insurance companies aren't paying for it - it must be free!

If we have a few billion to rebuild iraq with, we should have the money to pay for medical care.

 

[Darwin333]

Nah, just treat all capital gains as income. That should cover it.

Won't even come close to covering our current shortfall.

 

[PokerGuy]

If we have a few billion to rebuild iraq with, we should have the money to pay for medical care.

Actually, we don't have either one. We're borrowing money to cover everything. I'm sure that's a great long term sustainable strategy.

 

[Darwin333]

If we have a few billion to rebuild iraq with, we should have the money to pay for medical care.

We didn't have a few billion for that either.

 

[fskimospy]

And no study was commissioned to look at the current state of health care with an eye on the long term in the context of actual implementation. Remember how this was going to save oh so much money? Where's that now?

Same place it's always been, still there.

Rather than applying considerable effort to get better legislation you just say "oh it's too big to get perfect. That would take forever". Well jamming everything together with the first priority of making political hay, not bothering to explain what was going to happen, indeed not knowing what was going on, but by Cthulhu we're going to get something done by election time is hardly commendable.

They spent more time crafting that bill than any bill that has ever existed in the entire history of the United States of America. Literally. Exactly how much more time would you have liked them to spend? Give me a number of how many years you would like Congress to have spent.

There are always unintended consequences. Pretending that minimizing them in advance is unnecessary because things will be fixed and go forward is sheer lunacy. Medicaid is incredibly flawed. How long has that been going on? Has that been fixed and we moved on? No, not at all. But, THIS time we'll get it right. We don't need to worry, just write something haphazard and it will right itself like it always does, but doesn't Don't worry, be happy.

Of course there are always unintended consequences. Where on earth did any person ever say that we shouldn't minimize them in advance? Why on earth would you believe that they DIDN'T attempt to minimize them in advance? What is sheer lunacy is to think that because an unintended consequence did show up that such an effort didn't exist. Surely you know better.

This is merely the first opportunity for apologists to line up. Everything however badly conceived will be "no big deal". They want it so badly that no matter how bad it is, they'll find an excuse to justify it.

Sure it is. I know it's not government run health care which all evidence shows is vastly superior, and so it's not perfect, but someday we will hopefully get there.

 

[senseamp]

Blunder? Sounds like a good thing.

 

[Texashiker]

Blunder? Sounds like a good thing.

Its a good thing for people.

Its a blunder for the insurance companies who wanted a law to protect their profits.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Same place it's always been, still there.

Really? So this is going to be free? Nice.
BTW, those CBO figures? They themselves said savings are contingent on things like medicare reimbursement cuts. When did that happen? The right hand takes and the left gives back. Smoke and mirrors.

They spent more time crafting that bill than any bill that has ever existed in the entire history of the United States of America. Literally. Exactly how much more time would you have liked them to spend? Give me a number of how many years you would like Congress to have spent.

What I said is that in advance of "crafting" the research in the context of implementation by people who know what the heck is going on should be done. Then and only then should a remedy be sought. You pointedly ignore that.

Of course there are always unintended consequences. Where on earth did any person ever say that we shouldn't minimize them in advance?

It isn't about saying, it's about doing. When going about something ass backward, it's more likely that bad things will happen.

Why on earth would you believe that they DIDN'T attempt to minimize them in advance? What is sheer lunacy is to think that because an unintended consequence did show up that such an effort didn't exist. Surely you know better.

I've worked in many fields and in every one the best policies came about after those in charge exercised due diligence in getting current and comprehensive guidance. You are displaying a fundamental ignorance of the complexity of the system.

My position is that the system is more complicated than Congress understands, that they exercise minimal effort compared to the task and have no idea what happens next.

Would you explain how Medicaid run health care is vastly superior? I'd love to hear that.

The fact is that I've had this conversation in a way before. No one needed to question the government about Iraq. After all the research was done, the military is vastly superior to any other etc. You are merely playing the counterpoint to the neocons. There is nothing that government can do wrong and it happens there will be a justification for it. Nothing ever changes.