Only police should have guns.

[classy]

Wow. The total FAIL in this thread with all the cop bashers is beyond belief.

Are you people aware of what's been going on in Detroit? Police being called to buildings and then ambushed and killed? Police being killed in their cars? On street corners?

They were going to pick up a SUSPECTED MURDERER. I shouldn't have to capitalize that bit, but it certainly seems that some people here think they should have gone in, knocked, and asked if Johnny-Boy could come out and play.

I don't know the particulars of the incident. I can tell you though that most triggers on most handguns don't require a large amount of pressure to fire. If you've got yours drawn because you're going into the house of a suspected murderer, and someone, regardless if there a 'poor old' 47 year old grandma runs into you, there's a good chance of that gun going off.

Welcome to a dangerous world where the cops are doing the best they can. I'm sure they got up that morning and decided to be irresponsible and shoot a 7 year old girl.

Go back to your insanity though if it somehow makes you feel superior for people who have to go out and pick up murderers as part of their job.

Maybe you missed the part of, it was the wrong apartment. Do you think that could change just a couple of things?

 

[Kappo]

Maybe you missed the part of, it was the wrong apartment. Do you think that could change just a couple of things?

I don't think it was the wrong apartment, they served the warrant on both places. Granted, the wording of the statement and the fact that it is DPD make it fishy, but they did what they intended to do minus the killing a kid part.

Being around dangerous people is... dangerous? Not sure why you would put your kid in a place where there is a chance that a known murder suspect is known to frequent.

 

[NoWhereM]

I don't think it was the wrong apartment, they served the warrant on both places. Granted, the wording of the statement and the fact that it is DPD make it fishy, but they did what they intended to do minus the killing a kid part.

Being around dangerous people is... dangerous? Not sure why you would put your kid in a place where there is a chance that a known murder suspect is known to frequent.

Seriously? You're saying if you have a neighbor who murders someone it's okay for the cops to come to your home and kill your kids in their sleep?

 

[NoWhereM]

To correct something I posted earlier, it does appear that the murder that was being investigated was from just last week, not last year.

However the police only had a search warrant, not an arrest warrant, when they stormed the house. They say they hope to obtain an arrest warrant for the suspect tomorrow.

Also police are now saying that the officer's gun may have gone off simply because he ran into the grandmother when he charged into the room. http://www.detnews.com/article/2010...entally-shoot-7-year-old-girl-in-house-search

Several articles state the 7 year old was already injured before the officers entered the house, the flash bang grenade landed on the couch the girl was sleeping on burning her.

 

[HeinousAnus]

I can tell you though that most triggers on most handguns don't require a large amount of pressure to fire. If you've got yours drawn because you're going into the house of a suspected murderer, and someone, regardless if there a 'poor old' 47 year old grandma runs into you, there's a good chance of that gun going off.

5-8lbs triggers are normal, double actions will have a heavier first pull (some as high as 12-13lbs) and lower proceeding. Cops generally use heavier triggers to minimize AD's for instance NYC Glocks have a 12lb pull, same in LA with their DAs, and they are trained to NOT keep their fingers ON the trigger even when entering a building. You index your finger along the frame for two reasons, one, it keeps your booger hook off the bang stick, and two when you bring it in for a shot it keeps the tip of your finger on the trigger instead of the joint to accomplish proper trigger squeeze. In other words, they didn't "just bump into" someone and the gun went ff.


Let this be an object lesson to all trolls who think they can sneak back in while already on vacation.

You will be found, and your vacation will be increased dramatically.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Argo]

Once again, the amount of jumping to conclusion in this thread is astonishing. Arguing with people who already made up their mind is a lost proposition, but I'll try one more time anyway.

I am not defending the cops, I'm just stating that based on the facts given I can imagine multiple scenarios where either side could be at fault. What was the relation between the suspect and the family that lived in the duplex? Why were police searching both apartments? Was the gun in the holster when it went off? Did they knock before throwing the flash grenade?

Again, it looks bad but can we hear all the facts before we jump to conclusions.

 

[classy]

Seriously? You're saying if you have a neighbor who murders someone it's okay for the cops to come to your home and kill your kids in their sleep?

LOL

I shouldn't laugh because this is a very serious thing, but that is just too funny.

 

[ProfJohn]

Terrible accident.

I feel sorry for the parents and the cops.
Anything beyond that is useless BS.

 

[classy]

The blood stained sofa

Sad, really sad

 

[werepossum]

Must have mistaken the kid for the family pet.

So funny and so sad.

 

[exdeath]

Once again, the amount of jumping to conclusion in this thread is astonishing. Arguing with people who already made up their mind is a lost proposition, but I'll try one more time anyway.

I am not defending the cops, I'm just stating that based on the facts given I can imagine multiple scenarios where either side could be at fault. What was the relation between the suspect and the family that lived in the duplex? Why were police searching both apartments? Was the gun in the holster when it went off? Did they knock before throwing the flash grenade?

Again, it looks bad but can we hear all the facts before we jump to conclusions.

Again, for you, it's irrelevant. It's a police officer, who many trust to carry a gun. Some would say the only person who should even be allowed to carry a gun, and he screwed up and killed someone. I don't care what happened, who he bumped into, etc. He and he alone was responsible for his own weapon.

Let's say it was an armed civilian coming to someone's rescue and a bullet from his gun killed an innocent bystander. Would you feel any differently about the situation? Why are police any less responsible for or immune from their negligence? If it was a civilian who fired, many of the lefties on this site would be all over it and arguing that's why only police should have guns, instead of saying it was the criminals fault. So I posted this.

The whole point of this thread isn't to bash police, it's to argue that police are no more qualified to carry and use a gun than your average citizen, many of which are enthusiasts with far more training and experience with firearms than most police departments can afford.

 

[MotF Bane]

Once again, the amount of jumping to conclusion in this thread is astonishing. Arguing with people who already made up their mind is a lost proposition, but I'll try one more time anyway.

I am not defending the cops, I'm just stating that based on the facts given I can imagine multiple scenarios where either side could be at fault. What was the relation between the suspect and the family that lived in the duplex? Why were police searching both apartments? Was the gun in the holster when it went off? Did they knock before throwing the flash grenade?

Again, it looks bad but can we hear all the facts before we jump to conclusions.

Yes, you are defending the cops. And LOLWTF, was the gun in the holster? Are you trolling?

 

[CKent]

Sure. Let's ban abortion and gay marriage while we're at it, shall we?

What's the obsession people on both sides have with removing freedoms? Yes, the ability to do as we please comes with some risks. The idealistic young think that a utopia is possible, but in reality it isn't. The options are freedom with risks, or oppression. Do you really want to be another China, Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?

 

[MotF Bane]

Sure. Let's ban abortion and gay marriage while we're at it, shall we?

What's the obsession people on both sides have with removing freedoms? Yes, the ability to do as we please comes with some risks. The idealistic young think that a utopia is possible, but in reality it isn't. The options are freedom with risks, or oppression. Do you really want to be another China, Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?

Please check your sarcasm meter. It may require repairs.

 

[Linflas]

Oh they do wrong a lot. But when you take into consideration how many of them there are the percentage of bad cops really isn't that significant. It really wouldn't be a stretch to say they are more criminals that are Cops than are Hell's Angels only because the number of cops dwarf the number of Hell's Angels.

You are correct but the problem is that we have fostered such an us versus them mentality between police and the general populace that the overwhelming majority of good cops tend to cover up for the few bad ones and deflect any criticism of their methods as being anti-police. It would be much better for them and the citizens they serve to be as open and transparent as possible when incidents such as the Mayor in Maryland whose family dogs were shot while running away from the police as they mistakenly served a no knock warrant on his residence occur. The police to this day insist they did nothing wrong when almost everything they did was wrong.

 

[PingSpike]

Must have mistaken the kid for the family pet.

LOL...its not just our state's police going around executing everyone's dogs then? The best one was when some cops with a K9 unit cut through some one's yard and the K9 unit got in a fight with a dog that was chained up there. The police were unable to stop the dogs from fighting so they shot the chained up dog.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Wow. The total FAIL in this thread with all the cop bashers is beyond belief.

Are you people aware of what's been going on in Detroit? Police being called to buildings and then ambushed and killed? Police being killed in their cars? On street corners?

They were going to pick up a SUSPECTED MURDERER. I shouldn't have to capitalize that bit, but it certainly seems that some people here think they should have gone in, knocked, and asked if Johnny-Boy could come out and play.

I don't know the particulars of the incident. I can tell you though that most triggers on most handguns don't require a large amount of pressure to fire. If you've got yours drawn because you're going into the house of a suspected murderer, and someone, regardless if there a 'poor old' 47 year old grandma runs into you, there's a good chance of that gun going off.

Welcome to a dangerous world where the cops are doing the best they can. I'm sure they got up that morning and decided to be irresponsible and shoot a 7 year old girl.

Go back to your insanity though if it somehow makes you feel superior for people who have to go out and pick up murderers as part of their job.

As long as you're sure the cop got up that morning and decided to murder a seven year old, I agree with you.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Sure. Let's ban abortion and gay marriage while we're at it, shall we?

What's the obsession people on both sides have with removing freedoms? Yes, the ability to do as we please comes with some risks. The idealistic young think that a utopia is possible, but in reality it isn't. The options are freedom with risks, or oppression. Do you really want to be another China, Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?

How about freedom from getting murdered by Policemen? Let's start with that, then add more?

 

[StageLeft]

Fvcking tragedy. I don't know what I'd do if I was asleep and flash banged but being arrested while his daughter is bleeding out it terrible, terrible. I wonder why the police felt they had to serve this at 12:30 at night with innocents in the house.

The police CLEARLY f**ked up here and HUGE. Why do I know? Because a 7 year old asleep is dead. They screwed the pooch dearly. I know some law pedants think a cop should be able to shoot you dead for resisting arrest just because you broke the law but get real. Poor kid, poor dad.

 

[Modelworks]

People like to group things together saying things like police are evil , it is easier that way.
Something to consider is that the officer who shot the 7 year old is a person to. It could be that the officer hates children and just couldn't wait to kill one or it could be that he is human , made a mistake and now has to live with killing a child. I'll believe the latter.

Most police are good people, they are not out to shoot everyone, cause people grief or attack people because it is fun or how they want to spend their day.

 

[KlokWyze]

LOL

 

[NoWhereM]

Fvcking tragedy. I don't know what I'd do if I was asleep and flash banged but being arrested while his daughter is bleeding out it terrible, terrible. I wonder why the police felt they had to serve this at 12:30 at night with innocents in the house.

The police CLEARLY f**ked up here and HUGE. Why do I know? Because a 7 year old asleep is dead. They screwed the pooch dearly. I know some law pedants think a cop should be able to shoot you dead for resisting arrest just because you broke the law but get real. Poor kid, poor dad.

Father was not arrested, just thrown on the floor and held at gunpoint as was the victim's grandmother.

This was a house divided into two apartments, one upstairs and one downstairs. The police knew it was two dwellings and obtained a search warrant for both.

The police also knew that their suspect would be in the upstairs apartment if he was in the building. The suspect was the boyfriend of the slain girl's aunt who lived in the upstairs apartment.

 

[Linflas]

Father was not arrested, just thrown on the floor and held at gunpoint as was the victim's grandmother.

This was a house divided into two apartments, one upstairs and one downstairs. The police knew it was two dwellings and obtained a search warrant for both.

The police also knew that their suspect would be in the upstairs apartment if he was in the building. The suspect was the boyfriend of the slain girl's aunt who lived in the upstairs apartment.

I love this "not arrested, just thrown on the floor" as if that should not be considered anything out of the ordinary. This is exactly the kind of thing the 4th amendment is all about preventing.

 

[NoWhereM]

I love this "not arrested, just thrown on the floor" as if that should not be considered anything out of the ordinary. This is exactly the kind of thing the 4th amendment is all about preventing.

I was pointing out that the little girl didn't die because the police came to get her father or anyone else living in her home. In fact she died even though the police knew their suspect didn't live in that home.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i support as many guns as possible in the hands of regular citizens so they can defend themselves against bad guys and cops alike. we just had a case in san franciso where i live, in which an off duty police sargeant assaulted a man at a restaurant. the police officer was so violent that the man had to stab him. of course the police officer claimed he was doing law enforcement at the time, when i reality he was just being a thug on his own time. i wish a citizen had had a gun and could have stopped him in his tracks. anyway the man who had to stab him was acquited at trial, but this whole incident shows how private citizens must be allowed to have weapons to defend themselves against police officers