Only police should have guns.

[exdeath]

Only police should have guns, after all they have far more training and expertise than us peons who see the range once a week:

http://azstarnet.com/news/national/article_89df56a9-f4b8-5876-91b6-4f34e3b09252.html

 

[Kappo]

The lead officer encountered a 46-year-old woman immediately inside the front room of the house and "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off, Godbee said. The officers had identified themselves as police, he said.

How does this prove your point? All it really shows is that some lady scuffeled with police and killed a kid.

Im all for the public arming themselves (the purpose of police is to arrest someone after they commit a crime, not really so much to prevent them), but you are doing it wrong.

 

[Argo]

>> "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off

Sounds like she was resisting arrest when the gun went off. Sad, but it's a pretty dumb move to get physical with police officers with drawn guns.

 

[NoWhereM]

>> "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off

Sounds like she was resisting arrest when the gun went off. Sad, but it's a pretty dumb move to get physical with police officers with drawn guns.

Yeah, that's how they want it to sound. It wouldn't sound very good if they said that the police threw in a flash bang grenade, stormed the room, and while beating down a 47 year old grandmother who had been sleeping on the couch shot a 7 year old girl who had also been sleeping in that room. And no, grandma wasn't a suspect in any crime until after the cop shot the little girl, at which time she was taken into custody. She remained in custody until someone realized what a clusterfuck they had on their hands and that trying to blame grandma was only componding their stupidity.

http://www.freep.com/article/201005...g-on-couch-Detroit-girl-7-fatally-shot-by-cop

 

[exdeath]

>> "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off

Sounds like she was resisting arrest when the gun went off. Sad, but it's a pretty dumb move to get physical with police officers with drawn guns.

And the excuses for how someone with a badge can do no wrong begin....

Physical contact? Someone breaking down my door without announcing themselves FIRST is going to be met with more than just "physical contact".

"Officers arrested the suspect during the search, Godbee said. Jones said the suspect wasn't in his apartment but one upstairs that officers raided at the same time"

So it wasn't even the right apartment... just threw flash grenades and fired shots at a grandma and 7 yr old girl JUST IN CASE. Why don't we just do commando raids on the whole neighborhood?

 

[Argo]

And the excuses for how someone with a badge can do no wrong begin....

Physical contact? Someone breaking down my door without announcing themselves FIRST is going to be met with more than just "physical contact".

>> the officers had identified themselves as police, he said.

Way to read your own article. Either way, unless you were there - I don't think you're in any position to judge who was wrong or right. At this point it's nothing other than speculation, or "his word" vs "her word".

It's total stupidity to make far fetching assumption based on one article in the newspaper, especially one that is fairly light on details.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Must have mistaken the kid for the family pet.

 

[Kappo]

And the excuses for how someone with a badge can do no wrong begin....

Physical contact? Someone breaking down my door without announcing themselves FIRST is going to be met with more than just "physical contact".

"Officers arrested the suspect during the search, Godbee said. Jones said the suspect wasn't in his apartment but one upstairs that officers raided at the same time"

So it wasn't even the right apartment... just threw flash grenades and fired shots at a grandma and 7 yr old girl JUST IN CASE. Why don't we just do commando raids on the whole neighborhood?

Under 50 is only a grandma in my part of the country.

 

[MotF Bane]

>> the officers had identified themselves as police, he said.

Way to read your own article. Either way, unless you were there - I don't think you're in any position to judge who was wrong or right. At this point it's nothing other than speculation, or "his word" vs "her word".

It's total stupidity to make far fetching assumption based on one article in the newspaper, especially one that is fairly light on details.

They set off a flash-bang, and then expect their victims to be able to hear or see identification as police? To anybody with a brain, that doesn't add up.

 

[exdeath]

>> the officers had identified themselves as police, he said.

Way to read your own article. Either way, unless you were there - I don't think you're in any position to judge who was wrong or right. At this point it's nothing other than speculation, or "his word" vs "her word".

It's total stupidity to make far fetching assumption based on one article in the newspaper, especially one that is fairly light on details.

AFTER they broke the door down and all hell broke loose.

I will allow some slack though. At least *this* time they were looking for a *murderer* and not just conducting paramilitary raids on wrong homes and gunning down citizens looking for Japanese maple plants, (or big screen TVs and black cars or whatever other unenforceable "law" gets passed by the skin of it's teeth...)

 

[Argo]

They set off a flash-bang, and then expect their victims to be able to hear or see identification as police? To anybody with a brain, that doesn't add up.

Did they throw the flash grenade after they announced themselves? Did they knock on the door? Did the lady know that she was harboring a dangerous fugitive? Again - without knowing all the facts it's impossible to reach a conclusion. That's why in this country we have trials that last days, while both sides present all the evidence.

 

[NoWhereM]

Story with video.

http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=1628

 

[exdeath]

Did they throw the flash grenade after they announced themselves? Did they knock on the door? Did the lady know that she was harboring a dangerous fugitive? Again - without knowing all the facts it's impossible to reach a conclusion. That's why in this country we have trials that last days, while both sides present all the evidence.

Trails are great... in theory... when you're... alive? A 7 year old girl is dead because of police misconduct that will most likely be swept under the rug.

No trial, evidence, or anything is going to bring her back or undo that day. It's done and over.

The criminal did not force police to throw flash bangs and discharge their weapons in the wrong apartment. They were just impatient and trigger happy and wanted to flex their might and justify their department's expenditures for tanks, machine guns, grenades, and ninja uniforms; they could have easily staked the place out and waited until he walked out to his car and cornered him or numerous other tactics that aren't as cool or flashy or fun as paramilitary raids.

Also, as an aside, if you didn't do anything wrong, and are being prosecuted under an unconstitutional law, and that law is being rubber stamped by activist judges, where is your last line of defense? Trails don't mean a thing to an innocent person who spends 30 years in jail or is killed by police for rightfully protecting himself, his home, and property.

 

[MotF Bane]

Did they throw the flash grenade after they announced themselves? Did they knock on the door? Did the lady know that she was harboring a dangerous fugitive? Again - without knowing all the facts it's impossible to reach a conclusion. That's why in this country we have trials that last days, while both sides present all the evidence.

For one, the suspect wasn't in the apartment. For two, are you going to actually tell me you believe the police knocked, the woman opened the door, they identified themselves, and then threw a flash-bang at her?

And you're advocating it will come out at trial, but you've clearly already decided she was resisting arrest and the police did nothing wrong.

 

[NoWhereM]

This is total bullshit. Reading the stories, watching the video, total bullshit. There are toys in the front yard of this house, police had to know there were little kids inside. They threw the flash bang grenade threw a glass window in the front room at 12:30 AM, grandmother and child were sleeping in that room.

The murder occurred last year, this was not a case of exigent circumstances. Police are saying they hope to obtain a murder warrant for the suspect tomorrow, they don't have a murder warrant he is only a suspect in a murder committed last year. If they had a good case they would have a murder warrant already. Yet they storm a house where they know there are small children like this? In the middle of the night?

 

[Mani]

>> "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off

Sounds like she was resisting arrest when the gun went off. Sad, but it's a pretty dumb move to get physical with police officers with drawn guns.

Sounds more like you're making excuses for the officer. "Some level of physical contact"? That kind of intentional vagueness tells me that the officer had absolutely no good reason to fire the gun. If the woman was resisting arrest, and physically attacked or threatened the officer, it would have been in the report, not some bullshit like "some level of physical contact".

 

[exdeath]

PS this thread wasn't intended to bash police but to discredit the idea that somehow police are better trained to handle guns and are therefore more qualified to have them over citizens.

They are not in most cases, the majority of them only put in the minimum range time as required and afforded by department budget, compared to enthusiasts with no such limits.

If it was a citizen at a bar killing an innocent person while trying to take down a criminal, people would be making 100 threads in P&N about "this is why only highly skilled and trained police officers should have teh gunz!!!1!", but a story like this and nothing but deafening silence from the anti-gun-pro-police-state crowd.

So lets stop with the police bashing. Yes they employed aggressive and questionable tactics here, but that's beside the point of this topic: Only police should have guns. Lets discuss the gun politics of police gun ownership vs civilian gun ownership here. I made the case that simply being a police officer does not make you a magically more qualified and 100% trustworthy person to carry a gun vs. an ordinary civilian and provided an example.

I would wager that, when looking at cases where guns are discharged to stop a crime in progress, that more collateral damage and bystander deaths and injuries are caused by disproportionate responses by police than by good samaritan civilians with guns.

 

[piasabird]

Well if this is where the murderer lived and his family was hiding him and they resisted the warrant, then maybe they should have all the blame for what happened.

However, it is quite possible the woman went to the front door because the police just knocked it down without even knocking or presenting a warrant as they sometimes do.

The judge may have put in the warrant that they can just knock down the door.

 

[piasabird]

The problem is that those that have absolute power will abuse that power. If US Citizens have guns then they are more hesitant to abuse their power. There has to be a balance of power.

 

[vhx]

Yeah this doesn't make the slightist bit of sense. If they announced themselves why would they need a flashbang? If they used a flashbang, then announced themselves, that is the dumbest move I have ever heard. The person is stunned, disoriented, probably can't even hear it. Then all of a sudden they are tackled. Anyone would obviously fight back and resist.

 

[Pulsar]

Wow. The total FAIL in this thread with all the cop bashers is beyond belief.

Are you people aware of what's been going on in Detroit? Police being called to buildings and then ambushed and killed? Police being killed in their cars? On street corners?

They were going to pick up a SUSPECTED MURDERER. I shouldn't have to capitalize that bit, but it certainly seems that some people here think they should have gone in, knocked, and asked if Johnny-Boy could come out and play.

I don't know the particulars of the incident. I can tell you though that most triggers on most handguns don't require a large amount of pressure to fire. If you've got yours drawn because you're going into the house of a suspected murderer, and someone, regardless if there a 'poor old' 47 year old grandma runs into you, there's a good chance of that gun going off.

Welcome to a dangerous world where the cops are doing the best they can. I'm sure they got up that morning and decided to be irresponsible and shoot a 7 year old girl.

Go back to your insanity though if it somehow makes you feel superior for people who have to go out and pick up murderers as part of their job.

 

[PrinceofWands]

http://www.9and10news.com/Category/Story/?id=227202&cID=3

Just thought I'd throw a little more fuel on the fire.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

No knock warrant = unconstitutional and illegal. Make your bullshit excuses. Pretend that a guy running into your house with a gun will be met with open arms. Because remember, they shoot every animal or "threat" they see before they even say a word to you. First your door is off the hinges, you're deaf, your dog is dead, and somebody is pointing a gun at your head with the finger on the trigger because he's spent 1/100th the hours on the range than your average gun owner. You have NO IDEA that they're cops. You just know they've done literally every single thing that a home invader would do and nothing that a cop would ever do.

But go ahead, make up some bullshit apologist excuses for it. I won't read them. If the person leaves their house, you arrest them then. If the person never leaves their house, they aren't hurting anyone. That's it.

 

[classy]

>> "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off

Sounds like she was resisting arrest when the gun went off. Sad, but it's a pretty dumb move to get physical with police officers with drawn guns.

Yeah okay. A woman with apparently no criminal history and there was no one or anything illegal in the house, just decides to resist arrest?

 

[Red Dawn]

And the excuses for how someone with a badge can do no wrong begin....

Physical contact? Someone breaking down my door without announcing themselves FIRST is going to be met with more than just "physical contact".

Oh they do wrong a lot. But when you take into consideration how many of them there are the percentage of bad cops really isn't that significant. It really wouldn't be a stretch to say they are more criminals that are Cops than are Hell's Angels only because the number of cops dwarf the number of Hell's Angels.