Only liberal egalitarianism, the morality of fairness and equality of opportunity....

[Moonbeam]

can save us from disaster. But you knew this because you can feel it in your stomach, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/o...ion-of-the-1-percent.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Vote for Romney and vote to destroy the nation. Money is speech has filled our minds with shit. You too are going to get rich. Hahahahahahaha.

Die you fuckers, by your own hand. Or wake up and live. The Matrix is a prison for your mind.

 

[momeNt]

The only way we can all be equal is if there is no government, we would all be equal in our own humanity. Those who want government to enforce egalitarianism believe in a lie. Any form of egalitarianism other than just being equal in the sense that you are the master of your body, is a ridiculous and childish notion.

 

[Juror No. 8]

The only way we can all be equal is if there is no government...

But, but, but... without a government, there would be wars, terrorism, and crime! Oil companies would spill oil all over the place! Corporations would take advantage of the people! The banks would engage in fraudulent practices! Our kids would not be educated! The economy would be a mess! We'd have private prisons jailing people for petty crimes!

Oh wait...

 

[dank69]

But, but, but... without a government, there would be wars, terrorism, and crime! Oil companies would spill oil all over the place! Corporations would take advantage of the people! The banks would engage in fraudulent practices! Our kids would not be educated! The economy would be a mess! We'd have private prisons jailing people for petty crimes!

Oh wait...

You forgot slavery. Oh wait...

 

[zanejohnson]

i freakin love how anarchist is has gotten lately..

 

[Juror No. 8]

You forgot slavery. Oh wait...

You mean the same slavery that was determined to be legal under the U.S. Constitution multiple times by the Supreme Court? You mean the same slavery that was thereby institutionalized and protected by government for over 70 years?

Oh wait is right!

 

[Juror No. 8]

i freakin love how anarchist is has gotten lately..

But, but, but... don't say that! Under anarchy, we'd be dominated by armed thugs marching the streets at all hours! They would intimidate us, beat us, rob us, kidnap us, and control us! Without government/police protection, we'd be screwed!

Oh wait... Damn it, not again!

 

[drebo]

Liberals and progressives don't espouse equality of opportunity, they want to legislate equality of outcome.

Equality of opportunity is what we have (or had a decade or two ago).

 

[BurnItDwn]

Liberals and progressives don't espouse equality of opportunity, they want to legislate equality of outcome.

Equality of opportunity is what we have (or had a decade or two ago).

We very much have the opposite of equality of opportunity currently.

Most Universities and colleges charge admission to the students.
In some cases Private Schools are "better" than public schools.
School districts for Wealthy districts tend to be better funded than school districts in poor districts.

We don't even have anything close to resembling equality of access to education, how could we even come close to equality of opportunity overall?

 

[nehalem256]

Liberalism is the morality of equality not fairness.

 

[Matt1970]

Only the Liberals will save us, the Conservatives will destroy the world.......

 

[drebo]

We very much have the opposite of equality of opportunity currently.

Most Universities and colleges charge admission to the students.
In some cases Private Schools are "better" than public schools.
School districts for Wealthy districts tend to be better funded than school districts in poor districts.

We don't even have anything close to resembling equality of access to education, how could we even come close to equality of opportunity overall?

Lack of ability to pay for it doesn't have anything to do with restricting who can go to that university.

Additionally, there are plenty of scholarships and loans. There are plenty of state schools that are very affordable and local to just about everyone.

More than that, education has nothing to do with getting a well-paying career.

So, try again please.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A question to consider M, and tell me your thoughts from your true self.

The Great Eye rises in the east. Shall we give Gandalf the One Ring to do good? If you say no who among the Great Councils is worthy of the power so easily abused? If yes, what happens when he turns from Good to Terrible Justice? Who withstands him then?

 

[Anarchist420]

I wish I hadn't gotten an education because it didn't me any better than what I would've otherwise gotten.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wish I hadn't gotten an education because it didn't me any better than what I would've otherwise gotten.

Then you aren't using it right. I've learned a great many things but as I have I realize I don't know all that much. That inself is a great lesson.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Lack of ability to pay for it doesn't have anything to do with restricting who can go to that university.

Additionally, there are plenty of scholarships and loans. There are plenty of state schools that are very affordable and local to just about everyone.

More than that, education has nothing to do with getting a well-paying career.

So, try again please.

Equality of opportunity means "ability to pay" is not a factor.

Education has a lot to do with being unemployed or making minimum wage vs being an engineer or a doctor and earning enough to be independent and secure.

Also, equality of opportunity means no "well connected" family members to get somebody into an opportunity, instead, people will only make or find opportunity based upon their own merits.

High School drop out mom's with their in jail boyfriends who have 11 kids.
Their Kids are just going to keep repeating the fail cycle without a "way out" Yes, some get scholarships, or make it in sports, and have a way out. And others may take out loans for school and succeed. But the failure rate is impossibly high.

If we had a true equality of opportunity, the same percentage of "born poor" people would "make it" in their life as the percentage of "born rich" people or "born average" people.

Unless you are implying that they have all the same doors open to them, and that the only reason poor people stay poor is because they are somehow inferior to people of greater wealth.

If anybody thinks there's anything close to resembling equality of opportunity in the USA, they are completely ignorant of reality on a scale immeasurably large.

No matter how you try to spin it, there is nothing in any way shape or form close to giving people any sort of equality of opportunity.

 

[Juror No. 8]

I wish I hadn't gotten an education because it didn't me any better than what I would've otherwise gotten.

That's the whole purpose of modern, compulsory government education. Just read this and you'll understand why you were "schooled" for the better part of your crucial, formative years:

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=36056

 

[woolfe9999]

Lack of ability to pay for it doesn't have anything to do with restricting who can go to that university.

Additionally, there are plenty of scholarships and loans. There are plenty of state schools that are very affordable and local to just about everyone.

More than that, education has nothing to do with getting a well-paying career.

So, try again please.

Education has nothing to do with a well paying career? No, you're just wrong. Do you *really* want me to link statistics to prove you wrong?

And no, we do not have equality of opportunity here. Not even close.

 

[woolfe9999]

I wish I hadn't gotten an education because it didn't me any better than what I would've otherwise gotten.

Where did you learn to read so that you could absorb all this crap you learn from the interwebs?

 

[drebo]

Equality of opportunity means "ability to pay" is not a factor.

Education has a lot to do with being unemployed or making minimum wage vs being an engineer or a doctor and earning enough to be independent and secure.

Also, equality of opportunity means no "well connected" family members to get somebody into an opportunity, instead, people will only make or find opportunity based upon their own merits.

High School drop out mom's with their in jail boyfriends who have 11 kids.
Their Kids are just going to keep repeating the fail cycle without a "way out" Yes, some get scholarships, or make it in sports, and have a way out. And others may take out loans for school and succeed. But the failure rate is impossibly high.

If we had a true equality of opportunity, the same percentage of "born poor" people would "make it" in their life as the percentage of "born rich" people or "born average" people.

Unless you are implying that they have all the same doors open to them, and that the only reason poor people stay poor is because they are somehow inferior to people of greater wealth.

If anybody thinks there's anything close to resembling equality of opportunity in the USA, they are completely ignorant of reality on a scale immeasurably large.

No matter how you try to spin it, there is nothing in any way shape or form close to giving people any sort of equality of opportunity.

Bullshit.

There are no laws preventing children of jailed single mothers from going to Harvard or Yale or Standford.

There are no laws preventing Mexicans from becoming corporate CEOs.

There are no laws preventing Blacks from going to the same schools as Whites.

There are no laws preventing Muslims from being policemen.

There are no laws preventing Albinos from working retail.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Equality of opportunity does NOT NOT NOT mean that everything will be handed to you. It means that everyone has the opportunity to pursue whatever path they want in life, such that no artificial barriers (note that money is not an artificial barrier, no matter how much you want it to be) will prevent them from attempting to attain their goal.

What you are attempting to illustrate is "fairness." Nothing is fair. Life isn't fair. "Fair" doesn't enter into any realistic equation in life. No, it's not "fair" that children of jailed single mothers tend to do very poorly in life. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the opportunity is afforded to them to break out of the cycle. Is it as easy as, say, the son of a small businessman? No, but it's not supposed to be. The world isn't fair.

Again, your concern is equality of outcome. You want everyone to go to college and get a college degree. You want everyone to have the same well-paying jobs. You want everyone to have the same "fair share." That's not, and shouldn't be, the way the world works.

 

[drebo]

Education has nothing to do with a well paying career? No, you're just wrong. Do you *really* want me to link statistics to prove you wrong?

And no, we do not have equality of opportunity here. Not even close.

I don't have a college degree. I built and run an Internet phone company, WISP, and ISP. I do, however, know plenty of people with college degrees that are completely useless.

Please state why you believe that every citizen of this country does not have the same opportunities afforded them as every other citizen of this country.

 

[Moonbeam]

A question to consider M, and tell me your thoughts from your true self.

The Great Eye rises in the east. Shall we give Gandalf the One Ring to do good? If you say no who among the Great Councils is worthy of the power so easily abused? If yes, what happens when he turns from Good to Terrible Justice? Who withstands him then?

I heard that Obama was advised to stay out of Libya but that a massacre was going to take place were thousands of innocent people would be killed by Qaddafi's military and that Obama refused to take the advise and acted to save all those people and did so. I don't know the truth, but did he use the one ring and was it appropriate. I think, if read and remember correctly, you proposed wiping out the Taliban as one option. I could be wrong about that too.

Me, I have no passion for power. I like anonymity. I'm a nobody, like a Hobbit.

 

[Moonbeam]

drebo: Bullshit.

There are no laws preventing children of jailed single mothers from going to Harvard or Yale or Standford.

There are no laws preventing Mexicans from becoming corporate CEOs.

There are no laws preventing Blacks from going to the same schools as Whites.

There are no laws preventing Muslims from being policemen.

There are no laws preventing Albinos from working retail.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

M: You are the one spouting bull shit and you admit it yourself as follows:


Equality of opportunity does NOT NOT NOT mean that everything will be handed to you. It means that everyone has the opportunity to pursue whatever path they want in life, such that no artificial barriers (note that money is not an artificial barrier, no matter how much you want it to be) will prevent them from attempting to attain their goal.

What you are attempting to illustrate is "fairness." Nothing is fair. Life isn't fair. "Fair" doesn't enter into any realistic equation in life. No, it's not "fair" that children of jailed single mothers tend to do very poorly in life. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the opportunity is afforded to them to break out of the cycle. Is it as easy as, say, the son of a small businessman? No, but it's not supposed to be. The world isn't fair.

M: So you claim that nothing is preventing anybody from attaining success then you tell us that life isn't fair for some. But that unfairness IS preventing them from success and it's also artificial. We allow unfairness that isn't necessary to exist.

d: Again, your concern is equality of outcome. You want everyone to go to college and get a college degree. You want everyone to have the same well-paying jobs. You want everyone to have the same "fair share." That's not, and shouldn't be, the way the world works.

M: Equality of outcome is an impossibility. You had every chance that anybody does, right, to have attained some personal wisdom, but you remain as dumb as a rock. It was inevitable, given the inferiority of your material. What you needed was some contact with somebody with real knowledge but there's not enough to go around.

 

[bfdd]

I heard that Obama was advised to stay out of Libya but that a massacre was going to take place were thousands of innocent people would be killed by Qaddafi's military and that Obama refused to take the advise and acted to save all those people and did so. I don't know the truth, but did he use the one ring and was it appropriate. I think, if read and remember correctly, you proposed wiping out the Taliban as one option. I could be wrong about that too.

Me, I have no passion for power. I like anonymity. I'm a nobody, like a Hobbit.

What you're saying is mostly truth. Even Biden didn't want to go in. Obama was the one who put his reputation on the line, not his administrations, with the Libyan intervention. I disagreed with it and still do, but it is a good case to use if you're trying to prove Obama is a man of moral conviction.

 

[Moonbeam]

What you're saying is mostly truth. Even Biden didn't want to go in. Obama was the one who put his reputation on the line, not his administrations, with the Libyan intervention. I disagreed with it and still do, but it is a good case to use if you're trying to prove Obama is a man of moral conviction.

Thank you. I think your post also shows moral conviction.