One in five Americans smokes cigarettes. Percentage steady since 2005.

[Bignate603]

It doesn't run up higher costs. Smokers cost LESS than non smokers. It's a money grab is all it is.

Here's an excerpt of a PM I sent someone else...

Do you actually have any data that says that? You're whole "They cost less because they die earlier" thing doesn't fly with me because the things that kill smokers early tends to be incredibly expensive. Cancer or heart disease are not cheap and can easily cost more than what most people will pay towards their health insurance in their whole lifetime.

The whole 'die earlier' argument might work to say that they'll save money for the medicare system because many won't make it to be eligible but I don't see it saving any money for private insurers that cover the smokers when they're younger.

 

[Wyndru]

The tobacco sin taxes in NY appear to be failing to some extent. A lot of people have just started buying pipe tobacco (which is taxed much less per volume) and rolling their own. It's easy to do with the fancy machines they have, even my 60 year old mom rolls her own in no time.

The tobacco shop near me says they cannot keep up with the inventory of pipe tobacco because of this.

Also, state border shops have stopped selling cigs all together, since now that they are so expensive, it's actually worth going across the state lines to buy them.

Great job NY, you actually pushed it to the extreme where you are losing tax revenue as a result of high taxes. 🙄

 

[meltdown75]

goin for a coffin nail @ 10, anyone wanna join me?

 

[Cerb]

Why should governments protect individuals from themselves

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS

To yourself, do whatever you want. But, you are going to have a hard time keeping it purely to yourself.

 

[lxskllr]

Do you actually have any data that says that? You're whole "They cost less because they die earlier" thing doesn't fly with me because the things that kill smokers early tends to be incredibly expensive. Cancer or heart disease are not cheap and can easily cost more than what most people will pay towards their health insurance in their whole lifetime.

The whole 'die earlier' argument might work to say that they'll save money for the medicare system because many won't make it to be eligible but I don't see it saving any money for private insurers that cover the smokers when they're younger.

I posted a link to a peer reviewed paper, as well as the abstract in the thread. Do you not read what I post?

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Smokers go out and buy packs of cigarettes that are heavily subsidized by the government for society's benefit.

I think you mean "taxed," not "subsidized."

 

[bhanson]

WTF. Anyone else notice that the definition of a current smoker is: HAVING SMOKED 100 CIGARETTES IN THEIR LIFETIME?

So you could have smoked for 2 months 20 years ago and be classified as a current smoker. No wonder the numbers haven't come down. Hell, I'm pretty sure I would be classified as a "current smoker" even though I've never smoked more than just the casual cig at a bar while in college.

Try reading the rest of the sentence.

Current smokers -- defined as those who reported having smoked at least 100 cigarettes in their lifetimes and were smoking regularly at the time they were interviewed -- are more likely to be male, poor, non-Hispanic white or black, lacking a high school diploma, and living in the South or Midwest, the CDC reported.

Personally I don't care if people kill themselves, but smoking should be banned in every public place.

 

[Bryophyte]

WTF. Anyone else notice that the definition of a current smoker is: HAVING SMOKED 100 CIGARETTES IN THEIR LIFETIME?

So you could have smoked for 2 months 20 years ago and be classified as a current smoker. No wonder the numbers haven't come down. Hell, I'm pretty sure I would be classified as a "current smoker" even though I've never smoked more than just the casual cig at a bar while in college.

Current smokers -- defined as those who reported having smoked at least 100 cigarettes in their lifetimes and were smoking regularly at the time they were interviewed -- are more likely to be male, poor, non-Hispanic white or black, lacking a high school diploma, and living in the South or Midwest, the CDC reported.

Yeah, I think you missed something when you were reading that quote. Try reading that again.

 

[ElFenix]

I posted a link to a peer reviewed paper, as well as the abstract in the thread. Do you not read what I post?

i wonder if the statistics are done properly? (statistics are a huge problem, so many studies have poorly collected data that is then analyzed wrongly)

 

[Bignate603]

I posted a link to a peer reviewed paper, as well as the abstract in the thread. Do you not read what I post?

I posted in the morning before I left for work, I didn't finish reading the whole thread.

Your article still doesn't answer the rest of what I mentioned though. If smokers die earlier the group saving the most would be the government because it would keep people from spending time on medicare. It doesn't help private businesses that pay for a portion of their employee's healthcare or insurance companies selling health insurance to people directly.

Case 1: Employer needs X amount of people to meet demand and the company pays for their employee's healthcare. A certain percentage of them are smokers, who are more likely to have more expensive health care bills over a given period of time. They are also more likely to die or have a serious illness that makes them stop working. The company then turns around and hires another worker so that they have the required number of people to meet demand. The company sees no benefit from the worker dieing earlier, only higher costs.

Case 2: A person buys private health insurance from a company. They are a smoker and are more likely over a given period of time to have a serious illness that requires expensive care. They are also more likely to die over any given period in time. As soon as they die they stop paying insurance premiums. The insurance company sees no benefits from the smoker dieing earlier, they only see higher costs to insure a smoker.

While overall costs for our country as a whole go down because smokers die earlier that doesn't get around the fact that a smoker on average has higher healthcare costs than a non-smoker. For everything except medicare which covers you until you die the direct cost to the entity paying the bills is higher for an average smoker than it is for an average non-smoker over a given period of time. That justifies higher premiums.