On the upside...there may be a replacement plan for Obamacare

[Jhhnn]

Um no, I'd prefer having a plan first. Ideally a fully outlined concrete plan that will definitely pass Congress.

Nah. Burn it down. All of it. Right down to the bedrock of civilization.

 

[jeff_in_MD]

I find it amusing that a regular refrain from the right has been complaining the ACA was a give away to the insurance industry....

Proposals to replace the ACA and change medicaid and medicare all seem to focus steering people to.....

the insurance industry

They just want to do it without regulations on what the insurance companies can do.

 

[Jhhnn]

Anything could happen, doesn't mean that it's likely to happen.

One thing about buying Insurance across state lines is which state regulations are they going to follow. The ones of the state where the insurance company resides or the state where I live? And would they have to be licensed in each state they do business.

The other thing is that insurance companies negotiate with the hospitals, doctors, and so on what they reimburse them for the services they offer I assume they will still have to. Will the companies be required to sell across state lines and will the doctors be required to accept the insurance?

In the state where they reside, obviously. That's why credit card companies are headquartered in states with lax usury laws.

 

[sactoking]

Anything could happen, doesn't mean that it's likely to happen.

One thing about buying Insurance across state lines is which state regulations are they going to follow. The ones of the state where the insurance company resides or the state where I live? And would they have to be licensed in each state they do business.

The other thing is that insurance companies negotiate with the hospitals, doctors, and so on what they reimburse them for the services they offer I assume they will still have to. Will the companies be required to sell across state lines and will the doctors be required to accept the insurance?

The whole "sell health insurance across state lines" concept is incredibly stupid and dangerous and the fact that it has survived this long as a viable academic concept is proof that people just don't have a clue.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The whole "sell health insurance across state lines" concept is incredibly stupid and dangerous and the fact that it has survived this long as a viable academic concept is proof that people just don't have a clue.

Lets not forget almost every State doesn't want it to happen because it will be impossible to regulate (State's Eights dammit!) and no large insurer wants to deal with setting up in network care in every State and deal with tons of different regulation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Nah. Burn it down. All of it. Right down to the bedrock of civilization.

Or the classic fallacy. Cash only care, we should all keep about 10-15k per decade old we are aside for healthcare and some how be able to value shop for treatment during an emergency.

 

[thraashman]

Since those most vulnerable to the Republican health plan are the elderly, I wonder how Fox News will take it when half their audience dies off due to lack of affordable medical care.

 

[jeff_in_MD]

In the state where they reside, obviously. That's why credit card companies are headquartered in states with lax usury laws.

So basically Republicans want to prevent states from regulating business that operate in its state.

What happens to states rights like they usually talk about.

 

[thraashman]

The word was could I'm not a Trump voter but the one thing he's been clear about is not allowing people to go without treatment. His intent may be to give tax breaks or allow out of state purchasing but those will likely fail or not have the expected outcome. I really don't think its insane to think a second term Trump could shake things up.

The ACA already allows out of state purchasing. Even better though as it allows states to choose to make pacts with other states to allow them rather than force it on a national level. Here's a good article explaining the problems with it

 

[1sikbITCH]

Why don't they work part time somewhere doing something not challenging or simply what they want to do?

Haha who the fuck would hire old crippled people working just to keep health insurance.
NOBODY.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Haha who the fuck would hire old crippled people who can't even do the work just to keep health insurance.
NOBODY.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Haha who the fuck would hire old crippled people working just to keep health insurance.
NOBODY.

WalMart or Target

 

[bshole]

On the downside Envoucher Patients First Act will leave the elderly high and dry with a $3,000 a year tax credit.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/8-big-changes-under-tom-priceâ€-tm-s-obamacare-replacement-plan/ar-AAkXhse

2018 midyear could be fun! Do they have the stones to attempt and apply this across the board to current Medicare eligible seniors?

Yea they would try it...... ONCE and then the midterms would come and every single mouth-breather who voted for it would be swept out of office in an avalanche. Almost all Americans have an elderly loved one that is absolutely dependent on the benefits that they EARNED through a lifetime of hard work.

 

[Paratus]

Or the classic fallacy. Cash only care, we should all keep about 10-15k per decade old we are aside for healthcare and some how be able to value shop for treatment during an emergency.

I think to try and predict what will replace he ACA it's helpful to remember that freedom is very important to conservatives. Two specific freedoms. The freedom (for others) to die (capital punishment, stand your ground, etc) and freedom from taxes. You of course remember that the American revolution was fought to be free of taxes, (sure there was something else about representation but it probably wasn't that important.)

So put these together and the solution becomes clear. Repeal the ACA and replace it with indemnity for hospitals to refuse to treat patients in the ER and elsewhere if they can't pay.

This way people will be free to die if they can't pay and we all will be free not to pickup the costs.

Remember the book a Christmas Carol? Scrooge says, "Let them, (meaning poor people), die and decrease the surplus population," when asked for charity. He was a businessman who knew how poor people and the working class tried to take money from their betters. That's the conservative standard bearer right there.

 

[ivwshane]

Since those most vulnerable to the Republican health plan are the elderly, I wonder how Fox News will take it when half their audience dies off due to lack of affordable medical care.

You haven't seen their new marks? They are pivoting to trumps newly discovered base. Old people are so 2000. Its all about the young middle class fascist now.

 

[Sunburn74]

Let them kill off the ACA/Medicare/Medicaid, privatize SS, and have Palin run the VA. The people have spoken. How dare I stand in the way of the fruits resulting from that decision.

Pretty much how I feel. I hope this will be the last major election where the average american still things the GOP is working for them. Probably not though.

I think to try and predict what will replace he ACA it's helpful to remember that freedom is very important to conservatives. Two specific freedoms. The freedom (for others) to die (capital punishment, stand your ground, etc) and freedom from taxes. You of course remember that the American revolution was fought to be free of taxes, (sure there was something else about representation but it probably wasn't that important.)

So put these together and the solution becomes clear. Repeal the ACA and replace it with indemnity for hospitals to refuse to treat patients in the ER and elsewhere if they can't pay.

This way people will be free to die if they can't pay and we all will be free not to pickup the costs.

Remember the book a Christmas Carol? Scrooge says, "Let them, (meaning poor people), die and decrease the surplus population," when asked for charity. He was a businessman who knew how poor people and the working class tried to take money from their betters. That's the conservative standard bearer right there.

This doesn't help. You're assuming people show up to hospitals to die. Most people show up with conditions they are not immediately dying from, but let left will lead to a long and generally shitty decline. In fact, only a fraction of all healthcare in general occurs in hospitals. Most of it in clinic care and outpatient procedures. Its just that stuff is expensive (CTs, MRIs, echo, procedures and surgeries, etc)

 

[brycejones]

They just want to do it without regulations on what the insurance companies can do.

Like the one that mandates they have to spend a certain % of premiums on care. You know crap that gets in the way of higher profits.

 

[jeff_in_MD]

Like the one that mandates they have to spend a certain % of premiums on care. You know crap that gets in the way of higher profits.

I know, things safety and environment regulations also gets in the way.

 

[werepossum]

OK. I guess I mistook your meaning.

And the answer is no. Killing Medicare like that would be like dropping an atomic bomb on Syria.

Wait - killing Medicare would be fun and productive? <evil grin> I keed, I keed.

I'd like to see the Dems enact single payer in one or a few willing blue states and the Pubbies enact whatever replacement they eventually envision in one or a few willing red states. Give them each five years and then see where we're at. No more "one size fits all" or "this will be great, but only if everybody has to do it." Instead of no competition or competition between insurance companies, let's see some competition of ideas and see what works best. And hopefully, the states to embrace the new plans will be the ones for whom Obamacare isn't working well.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think to try and predict what will replace he ACA it's helpful to remember that freedom is very important to conservatives. Two specific freedoms. The freedom (for others) to die (capital punishment, stand your ground, etc) and freedom from taxes. You of course remember that the American revolution was fought to be free of taxes, (sure there was something else about representation but it probably wasn't that important.)

So put these together and the solution becomes clear. Repeal the ACA and replace it with indemnity for hospitals to refuse to treat patients in the ER and elsewhere if they can't pay.

This way people will be free to die if they can't pay and we all will be free not to pickup the costs.

Remember the book a Christmas Carol? Scrooge says, "Let them, (meaning poor people), die and decrease the surplus population," when asked for charity. He was a businessman who knew how poor people and the working class tried to take money from their betters. That's the conservative standard bearer right there.

The Repubs really only have one plan for everything- free Market! Every man for himself! FUGM!

Simple. Concise. Easy to understand.

 

[Paratus]

Pretty much how I feel. I hope this will be the last major election where the average american still things the GOP is working for them. Probably not though.



This doesn't help. You're assuming people show up to hospitals to die. Most people show up with conditions they are not immediately dying from, but let left will lead to a long and generally shitty decline. In fact, only a fraction of all healthcare in general occurs in hospitals. Most of it in clinic care and outpatient procedures. Its just that stuff is expensive (CTs, MRIs, echo, procedures and surgeries, etc)

Right but when you don't have insurance you don't go to the doctor. You wait until it goes away or you feel it's serious enough to go to the ER. Then because you are poor enough not to have health insurance because the ACA is gone and Medicare and Medicade have been cut you don't pay for the services.

That's when the cost is incurred and we all pay through higher premiums. So just don't allow the services in the first place.

It's easy to justify too because of the just world fallacy. Bad things only happen to bad people. Oh you need $125,000 cancer treatment and can't afford it? Maybe you should(n't) have, blank, (where blank is worked harder, not spent money on things I know you didn't need, been more like me, etc).

 

[sportage]

Buying insurance across state lines as their solution is a bunch of hooey.
If AZ had cheaper insurance because of what AZ state legislators did to make that happen, and floods of people came in from oh say Iowa because insurance in Iowa was too high, then the AZ economy could not afford or burden the onslaught of Iowans seeking cheaper insurance. Eventually states with cheaper insurance would be forced to cap, limit and turn away outside shoppers from coming in. Especially to take advantage of that states less expensive insurance if the state wants to maintain their less costly insurance system.
The state would #1 want to take care of their own, not a bunch of uninsured sickly elderly Iowans flooding in.
If it sounds too good to be true, it is not true.

To protect themselves, states would need to pass limits on how many of those outsiders would be allowed to come in shopping for cheap insurance. 5,000? 10,000? 50? 5?
At what point would that states economy be threatened?
And what choice would any state have but to turn away out of state insurance shoppers to protect what that state had crafted?
After all.... healthcare is one of the most involved and costly parts of state government. It drives the state economy, tax system, and ability to keep jobs within the state itself.

Even Best Buy only has a limited number of $100 laptops to sell on black Friday. After that, you pay the Best Buy full retail price. Best Buy just can't keep giving away laptops for $100 to everyone that wants one.
Same theory with insurance. The state must retain some method of control simply to protect themselves.

All during the Obamacare debate we heard threats and predictions of death panels.
The republican plan of repeal and zilch would boil down to real death panels come true.

Nearly everyone that voted Trump, and mostly those Trump republicans as well as Trump himself are busy taking victory laps when nothing they have actually proposed has yet to take effect.
They act like everything they will promise and pass will be so wonderful. But we won't really know the proof of the pudding for some 50 days from now.
To claim success when the race hasn't even begun is pure and total nonsense.
When they strip away healthcare from millions with no replacement other than idiotic ideas of free market and buying across state lines, then will the real hurt set in for those millions of Americans.
And for the rest of America as well, because without Obamacare and without a plausible replacement, those millions will once again return back to the ER, again uninsured, and they will return to the courts filing for bankruptcy.
Now THAT is true trickle down economics.
Your rates skyrocketing because the others can no longer pay.

Go Trump! F us up. F us up till we bleed.

 

[theeedude]

That's how things work in authoritarian shitholes. Tens of millions will lose health insurance thanks to Trump and the GOP, and then some of them will beg Trump to help them, and he will interfere get a hospital or insurance company to take care of a handful of lucky people, pose for some pictures like he did with the Carrier factory, promise the rest how wonderful everything is going to be, and the peasants will suck it up.

 

[agent00f]

On the downside Envoucher Patients First Act will leave the elderly high and dry with a $3,000 a year tax credit.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/8-big-changes-under-tom-priceâ€-tm-s-obamacare-replacement-plan/ar-AAkXhse

2018 midyear could be fun! Do they have the stones to attempt and apply this across the board to current Medicare eligible seniors?

I have no idea why anyone would believe fascists don't take care of their own, even if it means bankrupting/gassing everyone else.

Everyday I'm reminded of just how naive americans are to the reality outside of their heretofore first world privilege bubble.

 

[ch33zw1z]

WalMart or Target

http://blog.walmart.com/business/20141007/providing-quality-health-benefits-for-our-associates

walmart is >30 hours to qualify. Not likely someone 60+ is gonna be pulling that off, especially if they're not in tiptop shape.

Based on my conversations with Walmart employees, it's likely most of them either don't have healthcare, or are now on a healthcare plan provided by the state.

I'm in MA, we've have MassHealth since Mitt Romney was our governor ~2004. Don't have healthcare? you pay a fine during tax season.