On the threshold of "Pleasurable Computing".

[dave_the_nerd]

I've discovered something. When you're computer is that fast, you want to use it, in deference to other, perhaps equally-functional but not as performant machines.

Yup. Which is basically why every saturday morning, I start out checking email on my phone, get frustrated and read some news sites on my iPad, and then get frustrated and go read Reddit and Fark on my desktop computer.

Browsing was around 5-9% CPU, spiking to 25% occasionally.

Burning a Blu-Ray data disc, is at 3%.

But everything, is FAST, and SMOOTH.

Nice, isn't it?

Maybe this feeling, is what people were trying to tell me about, when they kept telling me to buy a 4790K or an i7-6700(K), instead of buying my budget CPUs.

Basically, yes.

Granted, on CPU-Z 1.75.0's benchmark, my ST score is around 2250, whereas a 4.0Ghz i7-6700K is around 2050. So I'm already faster than a 6700K in ST, which is notable.

Realistically, the difference in cache sizes alone will probably negate that in real world use. To say nothing of the multitasking potential.

So, have I achieved "computing nirvana", on a budget? Well, maybe. Stay tuned!

(I haven't tried gaming on this SKL G4400 rig yet. I expect, that for AAA games, it will end up much like the G3258 does, stuttering, etc. I have a 7950 3GB in this rig too.)

That is when you will want to trade all those CPUs for an i5.

 

[sm625]

My living-room PC(s), are both Skylake G4400s OCed on ASRock Z170 Pro4S boards. I replaced a pair of G3258 OCed on Gigabyte H81 boards.

Why? It would have been cheaper to upgrade their CPUs and get a 50% performance increase than replace the motherboards and CPUs just to net a 5% performance increase.

 

[skipsneeky2]

My wifes G1820 and my i5 2500 feel pretty much the same for browsing and Netflix.WOT and CSGO are the newest games i own that honestly give a pleasurable experience on the G1820.

A $120 i3 4170 could open up worlds.Dropping one in soon would be the smartest choice i think before i end up having to find them used on Ebay and by then the G1820 would show its age.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Why? It would have been cheaper to upgrade their CPUs and get a 50% performance increase than replace the motherboards and CPUs just to net a 5% performance increase.

Yeah, but this is still Larry we're talking about here. Baby steps. We'll have him in an i7 by 2020 at the earliest, but we'll get him there.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Arrrgh...I've been saying for years and years and years, pick the right tool for the right job. This plus a little knowledge about how computers work is the key to "pleasurable" computing.

A computer is only subjectively as fast as its slowest part can respond to its nastiest, heaviest workload.

For the vast majority of people, any CPU faster than a Core 2 Duo E7xxx series is enough. Most people are waiting on their primary storage module, all too often a 5400 RPM hard drive with maybe 8MB of cache, not their CPU and not their RAM.

I'd much rather have a Skylake Celeron with a good M.2 SSD than a Skylake i5 with something like a WD Green hard drive.

Besides which...the OS matters too. Microsoft has been tormenting its users beyond endurance for the last 3+ years and Windows is only getting more and more insultingly dumbed down and antifunctional every update. For simple use people REALLY should consider Linux, ideally something easy like Mint XFCE edition until they get their bearings.

 

[Madpacket]

Besides which...the OS matters too. Microsoft has been tormenting its users beyond endurance for the last 3+ years and Windows is only getting more and more insultingly dumbed down and antifunctional every update. For simple use people REALLY should consider Linux, ideally something easy like Mint XFCE edition until they get their bearings.

Simple people should consider a tablet, no one cares about Linux on the desktop.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, but this is still Larry we're talking about here. Baby steps. We'll have him in an i7 by 2020 at the earliest, but we'll get him there.

Well, I just recieved my i3-6100, and I put it into my Asus H110M-A mobo, and it ... was a bit underwhelming.

It doesn't seem subjectively faster than my Haswell G1820 ITX rig, and seems (and benchmarks) slower than my G4400 @ 4.455Ghz.

And the HD 530 iGPU? Not any better for web browsing than the HD 510 or the iGPU on the G1820, seemingly. (Haven't watched any videos with it though, and it's not hooked up to a 4K monitor.)

I told BOINC to crunch on the HD 530, it probably is faster than the HD 510, but ... it still lags the UI of my web browser when crunching on the iGPU and attempting to browse at the same time. (This isn't an issue with my 7950 card, I can crunch on it and browse, with hardware acceleration ON, and it works just fine, no or very minuscule lag.) Worse, when crunching on the iGPU, clicking on a tab to change tabs in Firefox 44.0, takes 1-2s.

Edit: OTOH, I can crunch four threads in BOINC, pretty effortlessly, without lagging my browser noticeably. It's just the iGPU isn't power enough, or the crunching software doesn't leave a "buffer" of compute resources for the UI. (That's always been an issue, on GPUs with lower numbers of compute units, it happens on AMD iGPUs and NV dGPUs with lower numbers of compute units too.)

 

[moonbogg]

Well, I just recieved my i3-6100...

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Simple people should consider a tablet, no one cares about Linux on the desktop.

It's time they did. My little independent PC repair/build place is giving it to "I only check my emails"-type customers and they are extremely happy with it so far. We can remote in with free tools if need be, they don't need to worry about viruses, and it saves a cool $100 off the total build cost.

Plus, my specialty is making it mimic other OSes; Linux can be made to look more like Windows than Windows has for the last 3 years, and I can do a near-perfect OS X Mavericks mimic too. The look on that one little girl's face when she saw that was worth all the work

 

[VirtualLarry]

Not quite that bad a performer. Or is that how you feel about anything less than a HEDT CPU?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

For the vast majority of people, any CPU faster than a Core 2 Duo E7xxx series is enough. Most people are waiting on their primary storage module, all too often a 5400 RPM hard drive with maybe 8MB of cache, not their CPU and not their RAM.

I'd much rather have a Skylake Celeron with a good M.2 SSD than a Skylake i5 with something like a WD Green hard drive.

We have a winner here...

Not quite that bad a performer. Or is that how you feel about anything less than a HEDT CPU?

That is about how I feel about 5400RPM HDDs...

 

[moonbogg]

Not quite that bad a performer. Or is that how you feel about anything less than a HEDT CPU?

That's what I did when I found out you bought another dual core. Larry stop it. You are hurting people. You are hurting me. You don't have to do this. What do I have to do? What do I have to say!? Larry I love you and can't watch you do this to yourself.

 

[Madpacket]

It's time they did. My little independent PC repair/build place is giving it to "I only check my emails"-type customers and they are extremely happy with it so far. We can remote in with free tools if need be, they don't need to worry about viruses, and it saves a cool $100 off the total build cost.

Plus, my specialty is making it mimic other OSes; Linux can be made to look more like Windows than Windows has for the last 3 years, and I can do a near-perfect OS X Mavericks mimic too. The look on that one little girl's face when she saw that was worth all the work

I mean that's cool and kind thing you did where can force one OS to look like another but what happens when that little girl tries to go the Apple or Microsoft App store and download what their friends are playing?

I like Linux (and use it for actual work, Kali Linux saves me a bunch of time) but it's niche and always will be niche on the desktop. Apple mostly filled the void with OS X for anyone who wants a decent desktop with a set of Unix tools under the hood and not have to tinker or worry about breaking their OS for every major update.

There may not be many virus's for Linux but there are many vulnerabilities within the OS itself and with many of the tools that come deployed by default.

http://www.cvedetails.com/

Just have a look at Redhat Enterprise Linux (probably the most popular server distribution).

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerab...25/product_id-78/Redhat-Enterprise-Linux.html

Anyways, Linux on the desktop is great for old recycled PC's, or for old people who can't use small screens and want to surf porn but that's about it really. The rest of the use cases are for more appliance like purposes (Raspberri Pi + Kodi for HTPC , Steam OS, arcade cabinet PC etc.)

You can buy tablets or even full Windows PC's for well under $200.00 for the people who just "want to check facebook and e-mail". Of course they can already do this on their smart phones.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's what I did when I found out you bought another dual core. Larry stop it. You are hurting people. You are hurting me. You don't have to do this. What do I have to do? What do I have to say!? Larry I love you and can't watch you do this to yourself.

Thanks for the sentiment.

I bought it, mostly because it was going into a locked mobo (no BCLK OC), and I didn't want to spend too much, as this rig may get sold to a friend. Yet, I thought perhaps I shouldn't buy too low, and I wanted the better IGP. So I thought that the $130 i3-6100 was a better value than the $90 G4500. Although, I would have purchased the Skylake Celeron if it were available. (The friend that I may be selling this rig to, doesn't have a lot of money either.)

Don't fret, I'm still considering an i5 for my main rigs. Maybe in March, when I get more money. Maybe I can learn to save, and actually get something nice...

I've been spending more than I have to spend, really, these last few months, so I need to cut down now.

 

[Madpacket]

Amazing. That dude really kicks that laptops ass haha.

I think it's becoming a meme around but it's true. We need a "Thanks Larry!" image made up. The dude made me buy 16GB of DDR2 last week because cheap. Why do I need that much DDR2? lol...

 

[crashtech]

Thanks for the sentiment.

I bought it, mostly because it was going into a locked mobo (no BCLK OC), and I didn't want to spend too much, as this rig may get sold to a friend. Yet, I thought perhaps I shouldn't buy too low, and I wanted the better IGP. So I thought that the $130 i3-6100 was a better value than the $90 G4500. Although, I would have purchased the Skylake Celeron if it were available. (The friend that I may be selling this rig to, doesn't have a lot of money either.)

Don't fret, I'm still considering an i5 for my main rigs. Maybe in March, when I get more money. Maybe I can learn to save, and actually get something nice...

I've been spending more than I have to spend, really, these last few months, so I need to cut down now.

The i3 really is a better choice for someone who won't be as careful about what they install as you are. YOU wouldn't think it is faster because you know exactly what is running on your PC and would just stop or uninstall anything unintended, unlike most users.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Which browser? Chrome, or something else?

Internet exploder.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Is an i3 really that bad?

I support you Larry. Its boring to just get a 6700 and call it a day. There has been a time in all of our tech lives when we would have killed for Larry's i3. I think finding the demarcation line for "good enough" computing is a noble goal.

 

[SlowSpyder]

My FX humming over 5GHz with a couple of SSD's in RAID and 16GB provides for a nice experience in Win10. My Llano based laptop with an overclocked 1.6GHz Stars core is quite clunky for even general use these days, though it gets the job done (I generally just use it for it's HDMI output to my basement TV).

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113391

Kaveri A8-7650K ... dropped to under $100 (+ship), wonder what one of them performs like, especially overclocked. Just thinking...

 

[Arachnotronic]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113391

Kaveri A8-7650K ... dropped to under $100 (+ship), wonder what one of them performs like, especially overclocked. Just thinking...

You should totally keep buying low end gear

 

[VirtualLarry]

You should totally keep buying low end gear

Now that I own an i3... I'm curious how an overclocked AMD Kaveri "quad" compares.

But I should probably save that project for another day, or until I get rid of this i3-6100 rig. (If I can convince my friend he should get it.)

Edit: Then again, I've been disappointed in the performance of an A6-5400K (Trinity single-module), and a mobile Richland dual-module, as far as single-threaded performance. Maybe I should stick to Intel for that, it seems to be their dept.

 

[Madpacket]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113391

Kaveri A8-7650K ... dropped to under $100 (+ship), wonder what one of them performs like, especially overclocked. Just thinking...

The 7650K and 7870K are based on the newest binned processors which overclock a little better on average with less voltage. I recently bought a 7870K / Gigabyte ITX combo at a Microcenter and it's been pretty fun to play with. They're severely over volted out of the box for some reason though (lazy binning process?).

You can install AMD AOD and have at it with voltages and turbo boost in Windows, plus AOD is the only tool that will report correct TJ limits of these chips. They're really fun to play around with for $100 bucks. 4.5Ghz with decent cooling isn't that hard to hit without going crazy on voltages and the IPC of these chips are are better than the FX 83XX series.

Alternatively you can really undervolt them to like 1.175 - 2.25 volts at hit around 3.8Ghz or so and then they really sip power. I also have an older 7850K that undervolts really well (but has a weak memory controller and tough time with 2400 speeds unless I bump up the NB APU voltage a bit) and also have had an A8-7600, A6-7400K as well as older 6800 series APU's. As you can see I really like APU's as they're fun to play around with. Sure an 860K + (insert video card here) is a better value but there's something really fun about squeezing as much performance as you can out of just an APU with a decent set of RAM. A 7650K for under $100 would be cool to play around with.

G.Skill Trident X 2400's work amazing with AMD APU's and have good default timings. If you get a good APU with a strong memory controller and decent motherboard (Asus or Gigabyte seem to work best with memory overclocking and use good VRM's) you can loosen the timings of the sticks a bit and push them up to 2500/2600 speeds and then overclock the GPU to 950+ Mhz. Once you get into these speeds the gaming performance increases pretty dramatically over default speeds.

I prefer these sticks:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...m_re=g.skill_2400_DDR3-_-20-231-587-_-Product

I also have a set of Ripjaw Z sticks which overclock almost as good as the Trident X's and have the same base speeds. I think they may be identical sticks of RAM, just with different heat spreaders.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...m_re=g.skill_2400_DDR3-_-20-231-585-_-Product

If you're getting an APU grab a set of either the Trident X or Ripjaw Z's. I've had much worse luck with the 2400Mhz G.Skill Ares or Ripjaw X's.

 

[ShintaiDK]

haven't you produced enough E-Waste for Africa by now Larry?

Forget buying junk.

 

[superstition]

Whenever I build a computer for the first time, I want it to zip along and seem fast like crazy.

After that, I'll hang on to that computer till it becomes painfully slow to use, knowing that with the passage of time and advances in the computing industry, my next computer will hopefully once again seem fast as blazes.

Been working well for many years now.

I helped someone recently who had 7500 fragments for a single Windows 7 X64 log file that had ballooned to over 400 MB. There was a second copy of that log at 250 MB and another 2500 fragments.

I love Windows fragmentation spew.