On the Sixth Day, God Made the Dinosaurs

[sandorski]

Sure, religion is defintely used as an emotional crutch and so forth, but this isn't the reason its here... unless you're willing to prove that that its only here because people want answers now.

This, I think, is the issue: How can the Bible supply answers so quickly and seemingly completely? In a prescientifc age and people are supplying us with answers thousands of years down the line?

The way thinking people approach this issue, IMO, is due to the impossibility that a book as old as the Bible can give people answers about why evil exist and why people feel life has a purpose and why people believe God exists, etc, before we were able to measure the age of the Universe. If you think this is all made up, then I'm waiting for some evidence from you.

Yet, the Bible is full of practical value indispensible for us even today:

(Deuteronomy 23:12, 13) If they touched a dead animal or human, the Israelites had to wash with water. (Leviticus 11:27, 28; Numbers 19:14-16) Lepers back then were quarantined until a physical examination confirmed that they were no longer contagious.—Leviticus 13:1-8.

These things are obvious now, but the point is that these things predated modern science by a longshot.

Shucks, even some of the things Jesus taught is valuable and used today.

So, the book is much more than an "emotional lift" and this is why people like myself put stock into it. Again, its not a scientifc textbook -- its designed to give us information about God and his purpose...so you have to examine it with that in mind and not from a scientifc viewpoint or it won't make sense to you.

People back then were not brain dead, they knew many things, could see for themselves that certain practices had practical outcomes and that certain situations should be handled in certain ways. However, their understanding of those things was usually way off from understanding or even the best available action to take. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that one could claim to be so advanced that only a deity could explain it. Even for the people of those days that can't be claimed.

 

[randomrogue]

Rob sometimes I feel like you really haven't read the bible or are you ignoring the stuff that is wrong? We go through this time and time again with you and at some point you need to admit that you're cherry picking.

I'm not an expert on lepers. Are you? What exactly did the bible state that is so special? Leprosy has been around for about 4000 years according to wikipedia and was recognized long before the bible.

 

[randomrogue]

Did Jesus teach anything new btw? What did Jesus teach that wasn't around as a code of conduct for a few thousand years?

 

[Retro Rob]

People back then were not brain dead, they knew many things, could see for themselves that certain practices had practical outcomes and that certain situations should be handled in certain ways. However, their understanding of those things was usually way off from understanding or even the best available action to take. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that one could claim to be so advanced that only a deity could explain it. Even for the people of those days that can't be claimed.

I didn't say they needed a diety to explain it -- I was simply pointing out the information.

 

[Retro Rob]

Rob sometimes I feel like you really haven't read the bible or are you ignoring the stuff that is wrong? We go through this time and time again with you and at some point you need to admit that you're cherry picking.

I'm not an expert on lepers. Are you? What exactly did the bible state that is so special? Leprosy has been around for about 4000 years according to wikipedia and was recognized long before the bible.

Did Jesus teach anything new btw? What did Jesus teach that wasn't around as a code of conduct for a few thousand years?

I think you're missing my point. I am not saying that Jesus taught something new because he didn't -- I'm just simply showing that its there.

Many people don't practice proper sanitation today, or show love and/or tolerance... so for something that's been around for "thousands of years", the sheer lack of love and proper sanitation in the world should frighten you.

These serve are reminders for people who bother to look at it -- and from a non-scientific source, that makes it a bit more readable.. to me, anyway.

 

[randomrogue]

Lets be blunt. If you need the bible to know that washing your hands after you take a shit is the right thing to do then you have bigger problems than the bible can fix. The year is 2013.

Also, don't judge people too harshly. In all my years and all my travels the happiest people I've ever seen were a young couple living on an oxcart on the streets of Mumbai. Love comes in strange places and will always surprise you.

 

[Retro Rob]

Lets be blunt. If you need the bible to know that washing your hands after you take a shit is the right thing to do then you have bigger problems than the bible can fix. The year is 2013.

Also, don't judge people too harshly. In all my years and all my travels the happiest people I've ever seen were a young couple living on an oxcart on the streets of Mumbai. Love comes in strange places and will always surprise you.

Everyone needs "reminders". Some people find practical wisdom iin Jesus' words, etc.

Let me ask you: have any of those things I mentioned been proven false like love, tolerance, hand washing?

Despite the fact that these are commonplace, we don't disregard the basics though. So since hand washing is common sense, don't bother mentioning it...or reading a document that encouraged it?

This is why it "practical" because it never gets outdated.

 

[zinfamous]

That would be an awesome museum to go to.

Some reject God, because they just can't comprehend the awesomeness of a being that is and always will be beyond our scientific understanding.

Many argue that some can't comprehend the awesomeness and vastness of a natural universe because they can't get past the roadblock that is the diety stifling their curiosity.

 

[randomrogue]

Yes and this is why the bible took these ideas from other teachings. And since then others have taken it and others and others and others. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to write a book telling others that being polite to your neighbors and not spreading disease is the right thing to do.

If you haven't been to Paris book a trip now. You can see a very lovely piece of ancient history there called the Code of Hammurabi. There are copies elsewhere that might be closer but Paris is the closest one to me and it's the best preserved original. There are close to 300 laws on it. It does deal with laws of repricosity. In fact Ancient Babylon really dealt with this quite a bit and long before the bible.

So before you go depending on the bible for being a good person maybe a look at Ancient Babylon, China, Egypt, etc would be in order?

"Zi Gong asked, saying, "Is there one word that may serve as a rule of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not reciprocity such a word?" – Confucius

 

[Retro Rob]

Yes and this is why the bible took these ideas from other teachings. And since then others have taken it and others and others and others. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to write a book telling others that being polite to your neighbors and not spreading disease is the right thing to do.

If you haven't been to Paris book a trip now. You can see a very lovely piece of ancient history there called the Code of Hammurabi. There are copies elsewhere that might be closer but Paris is the closest one to me and it's the best preserved original. There are close to 300 laws on it. It does deal with laws of repricosity. In fact Ancient Babylon really dealt with this quite a bit and long before the bible.

So before you go depending on the bible for being a good person maybe a look at Ancient Babylon, China, Egypt, etc would be in order?

"Zi Gong asked, saying, "Is there one word that may serve as a rule of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not reciprocity such a word?" – Confucius

Depending on the Bible to be a good person? Where did I imply that? All I said was people use the practicality and apply it personally.

Fwiw, I find practical information in many secular and scientific documents, doesn't mean I'm depending on those to be a good person. I'm advocating using good information wherever you find it.

Or are you one of those folks that discredit it ONLY because the Bible says it?

 

[sandorski]

Depending on the Bible to be a good person? Where did I imply that? All I said was people use the practicality and apply it personally.

Fwiw, I find practical information in many secular and scientific documents, doesn't mean I'm depending on those to be a good person. I'm advocating using good information wherever you find it.

Or are you one of those folks that discredit it ONLY because the Bible says it?

Then why exactly do you use the Bible? It seems to me that you are trying to defend the Bible as useful simply because it got a few trivial things right. Where we diverge is on the Bible as a whole, where it gets many things very wrong.

 

[Retro Rob]

Then why exactly do you use the Bible? It seems to me that you are trying to defend the Bible as useful simply because it got a few trivial things right.

For the sake of this mini-discussion, I only showed some practical parts of it. I don't think any intelligent person would consider handwashing and love as "trivial things" seeing the huge negative impact of not regularly practicing such things.

I use the Bible because the mind of God is on display, and it answers a lot of questions I have. For me, its a valuable tool. For you, not so much. One man's trash is another man's treasure! 🙂

 

[randomrogue]

For the sake of this mini-discussion, I only showed some practical parts of it. I don't think any intelligent person would consider handwashing and love as "trivial things" seeing the huge negative impact of not regularly practicing such things.

I use the Bible because the mind of God is on display, and it answers a lot of questions I have. For me, its a valuable tool. For you, not so much. One man's trash is another man's treasure! 🙂

Yet time and time again we have shown you that these ideas are not new to the bible. They existed long before the bible. The bible is a creation myth and you would be wise to treat it as such and not place the pussy on a pedestal. There is really nothing in the bible that is new or that common sense today can't answer. There is a lot that is flat wrong though.

 

[colonelciller]

Zeus made the dinosaurs on the 1st day, not the 6th.

what's up with all these people bowing before statues of a false god and saying that said false god did the dinos on day 6??

 

[Retro Rob]

Yet time and time again we have shown you that these ideas are not new to the bible. They existed long before the bible.

Again, I never said those ideas were new in there, did I? No - I didn't. I think you'd do well to actually read what I am typing.

I once dropped a penny on the ground like it was nothing. A homeless man, following close by, was more than pleased to pick it up and pocket it as if it was worth thousands. A penny was nothing special to me, but it was to him.

You can't put a price of worth on practicality... for that very reason... becasue it's practical and useful to anyone. The Bible is as practical to me as the penny was to the homeless man. The value I placed on the penny had no affect on him and didn't destroy the value it had to him.

Likewise, the value, or lack thereof, you place on the Bible has almost zero effect on how I value it....for the same reason the value I placed on the penny had no bearing on the homeless man.

 

[colonelciller]

the true writings of the 1 and only God, lord ZEUS, is a treasure to behold, while the derivative holy texts of the modern day mean nothing to me. I agree with Rob

 

[sandorski]

For the sake of this mini-discussion, I only showed some practical parts of it. I don't think any intelligent person would consider handwashing and love as "trivial things" seeing the huge negative impact of not regularly practicing such things.

I use the Bible because the mind of God is on display, and it answers a lot of questions I have. For me, its a valuable tool. For you, not so much. One man's trash is another man's treasure! 🙂

By trivial, I mean in comparison to what Believers claim it's about. If I explain to someone how to Login to a forum, does that automatically mean that everything else I say is just as accurate or true?

That seems to be the type of argument you are making here, in regards to the Bible.

 

[Retro Rob]

By trivial, I mean in comparison to what Believers claim it's about. If I explain to someone how to Login to a forum, does that automatically mean that everything else I say is just as accurate or true?

That seems to be the type of argument you are making here, in regards to the Bible.

Nope, doesn't automatically make everything you say true. If you show me how to login to a forum, then other forum-related matters have instant credibilty until proven otherwise.

To be sure, I suspect where you want to take this discussion -- you're ready to pile on about what you see as "wrong" in the Bible.

Go ahead... those arguments historically go nowhere....so I won't be participating.

 

[sandorski]

Nope, doesn't automatically make everything you say true. If you show me how to login to a forum, then other forum-related matters have instant credibilty until proven otherwise.

To be sure, I suspect where you want to take this discussion -- you're ready to pile on about what you see as "wrong" in the Bible.

Go ahead... those arguments historically go nowhere....so I won't be participating.

It just perplexes me that one would deny or ignore the faults of the Bible, based upon such trivial truths. Especially given how flawed it is a whole.

 

[Paul98]

What we are talking about now is much different than where it was going 25ish posts ago. We went from why do you listen to the bible in the big questions when there is no proof. To the bible has some good advice. I feel like the point people were trying to make got derailed. What is the point of saying that the bible says it's good to wash your hands?

 

[colonelciller]

It just perplexes me that one would deny or ignore the faults of the Bible

this shouldn't be surprising since it is the norm.

 

[Paul98]

Again, I never said those ideas were new in there, did I? No - I didn't. I think you'd do well to actually read what I am typing.

But I thought you were trying to make the point that it was giving information that wasn't known? What was the reason that they were brought up if it's just examples of common knowledge that is in the bible?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I've often commented that a truly benevolent god, rather than spending 30% of the ten commandments on himself, would have replaced those with a few simple things like "Thou shalt wash they hands before every meal".

Or maybe the formula for penicillin. That would have been useful.

 

[sandorski]

What we are talking about now is much different than where it was going 25ish posts ago. We went from why do you listen to the bible in the big questions when there is no proof. To the bible has some good advice. I feel like the point people were trying to make got derailed. What is the point of saying that the bible says it's good to wash your hands?

This video seems to relate to how these conversations all too often go: Together for Pizza

 

[Paul98]

If you want to know why are we here and not the scientific answer that is ether a philosophical question or a personal question. You can answer that question for yourself through what you want to get out of your life.