on The Office, Gareth asked a trivia question about guns.

[shortylickens]

Which sub machinegun replaced the Thompson, starting during the Vietnam war?

I cannot find an answer. Is it even a valid question?

 

[PowerEngineer]

I'm guessing that the M-16 pretty much eliminated the need for a separate sub machine gun.

The M16 is forever tied to U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Typically fed by 20- or 30-round box magazines, the rifle was capable of a cyclical rate of fire up to 950 rounds per minute. The military version remained easily recognizable with its top-located carry handle, large triangular front sight, and polymer and aluminum alloy components. The first M16s reached Vietnam with American advisors in 1963, and the initial production model was designated the M16A1.

 

[shortylickens]

Probably true. But he made a point of saying the M16 replaced the M14 and there was also a replacement sub machinegun. On the show, nobody ever gave an answer.
Was there an answer?

 

[jlee]

Probably true. But he made a point of saying the M16 replaced the M14 and there was also a replacement sub machinegun. On the show, nobody ever gave an answer.
Was there an answer?

The M3/M3A1 'grease gun' comes to mind. That was well before Vietnam, though.

 

[Paladin3]

Yeah, I'm guessing that's not a valid question, or at least one with no single answer.

The M3 grease gun was developed during WWII because the Thompson was slow, expensive and complicated to produce. The M3 was cheaper and faster to make because it had stamped parts and some design simplification. The Thompson was still around and used in Vietnam, but don't know how many grease guns lasted long enough to see use in that war.

In the Vietnam era the M16 rifle replaced the M14. It was lighter and chambered in a smaller round to be easier to use. It could be used semi or full-auto and was intended to do the job of a rifle and submachine gun both. Soldiers had a tendency to waste a lot of ammo on full-auto, so it was later changed to semi-auto and 3-round burst modes only.

The fully auto, belt fed M60 machine gun was introduced in the mid 50's and saw lots of use in Vietnam, but that is more of a general purpose machine gun or a crew served weapon. Not really an SMG and I wouldn't say it replaced the Thompson because those two weapons serve different purposes.

There were CAR-15 Colt Commando carbines that the US classified as sub-machine guns that would shoot semi and full-auto. They were semi or full-auto and smaller than the M16 with a collapsible stock and shorter barrel length, around 10 inches. The weapon was popular with special forces for use in the jungles.

The S&W Model 76 was a 9mm submachine gun that saw a little bit of use around Vietnam. It was basically a copy of an older Swedish (I think) design that we could no longer import because of the war. Mainly used by special forces or SEALS, IIRC.

The Mac-10 in .45acp came out in 1970, but I don't know if it saw much use in Vietnam. It's a true submachine gun in same caliber as the Thompson, but again, I've never heard of it referred to as a Thompson replacement or being issued to regular troops.

Maybe we need to ask Gareth on this one, lol.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah, I'm guessing that's not a valid question, or at least one with no single answer.

The M3 grease gun was developed during WWII because the Thompson was slow, expensive and complicated to produce. The M3 was cheaper and faster to make because it had stamped parts and some design simplification. The Thompson was still around and used in Vietnam, but don't know how many grease guns lasted long enough to see use in that war.

In the Vietnam era the M16 rifle replaced the M14. It was lighter and chambered in a smaller round to be easier to use. It could be used semi or full-auto and was intended to do the job of a rifle and submachine gun both. Soldiers had a tendency to waste a lot of ammo on full-auto, so it was later changed to semi-auto and 3-round burst modes only.

The fully auto, belt fed M60 machine gun was introduced in the mid 50's and saw lots of use in Vietnam, but that is more of a general purpose machine gun or a crew served weapon. Not really an SMG and I wouldn't say it replaced the Thompson because those two weapons serve different purposes.

There were CAR-15 Colt Commando carbines that the US classified as sub-machine guns that would shoot semi and full-auto. They were semi or full-auto and smaller than the M16 with a collapsible stock and shorter barrel length, around 10 inches. The weapon was popular with special forces for use in the jungles.

The S&W Model 76 was a 9mm submachine gun that saw a little bit of use around Vietnam. It was basically a copy of an older Swedish (I think) design that we could no longer import because of the war. Mainly used by special forces or SEALS, IIRC.

The Mac-10 in .45acp came out in 1970, but I don't know if it saw much use in Vietnam. It's a true submachine gun in same caliber as the Thompson, but again, I've never heard of it referred to as a Thompson replacement or being issued to regular troops.

Maybe we need to ask Gareth on this one, lol.

If I were to guess on the answer, I'd probably say M16 for general usage, or the Colt Commando Carbine for actual 'sub machine gun' replacement. I guess it'd be dependent on the context of the question, whether they meant 'what did the boots in the mud use instead of the Thompson' vs 'What was the normal issue sub-machine gun which replaced the Thompson'. It's a poor question.

 

[kage69]

SEALs used grease guns and Karl Gustov m/45s in Vietnam IIRC.

 

[pcgeek11]

We had Thompson Machine guns in the US Navy until at least 1975 at the end of the Vietnam War.

Invalid question IMO.