On the absurdity of self and its relation to political opinion…..

[Moonbeam]

Do I hear the sharpening of knives? Before we get started let me emphasize the intention here is to look at your absurdity not mine. What is the value of political opinion on topical news items otherwise? Of what value to the development of self awareness can one derive from the focus on the self absurdity of other people. Isn’t that a given?

The insight provided by the awareness of one’s own self absurdity and the intention to profit from it, ask yourself if you agree, would it not lie in the attitudinal shift provided by the changed in perspective such awareness would imply? Do you reflexively think to yourself when some item of political news comes up that the view that forms in your head is absurd. Be honest here. Hehe, be honest as if we had that option……

Isn’t there a considerable difference in how a political or any news would be internally experienced by someone who is unaware their worldview is the profoundly ridiculous? So is that our condition?

I remember long long ago when I had to get up like at 4 in the morning to go to work. I am a night person and completely undisciplined about sleep. I stat up long long after most people go to bed. One night the neighbors dog woke me up barking and I of course did the rational thing. I opened the window and started screaming as loud as I could to shut your fucking dog up. Since that time I have never been disturbed by being wakened again. If I get wakened I just go back to sleep. Eventually I got a dog and sometimes he would bark at night. I am a gigantic joke and it’s actually quite fun if you can get past being ashamed of yourself. The gig may bark but the caravan moves on. As soon as something like sleep becomes a desperate issue for you, you are fucked.

I mention this in part because I got a call from my niece early in the morning a few days ago. There is something wrong with her garage door opener because the lithium batteries I got her the last time that happened last just a few days. Anyway, I jumped out of bed, got dressed and got in my car. The sun was coming up after days of heavy rain. Oh what a beautiful morning…. All my niece could do was apologize for the imaginary inconvenience she felt she caused me. For me it was all pure pleasure, both being able to help her and the experiencing the dawn. None of that would have happened if once upon a long time ago I realized that my resentment at being awakened was absurd. One day I won’t ever wake up again.

 

[IronWing]

We have a nef thread already. nef

 

[Jaskalas]

Do I hear the sharpening of knives?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Before we get started let me emphasize the intention here is to look at your absurdity not mine. What is the value of political opinion on topical news items otherwise? Of what value to the development of self awareness can one derive from the focus on the self absurdity of other people. Isn’t that a given?

Yelling at clouds, especially for those of us here.

For society at large, the "value" of "political opinion" is the effect Fox News and co. have had on the minds of millions over the past decades. To pollute and corrupt into endorsing madness. To tell lies and convince people that up is down and down is up. The value is power. Oft derived from propaganda. Speech, given effect, has a powerful purpose. Just... not our speech here. Due to its format and limited nature, and even more limited audience.

State TV, that is the naked value of political opinion. Where its value is most obvious. That sure as hell is not nothing, and it is not directed inward for self reflection.

The insight provided by the awareness of one’s own self absurdity and the intention to profit from it, ask yourself if you agree, would it not lie in the attitudinal shift provided by the changed in perspective such awareness would imply? Do you reflexively think to yourself when some item of political news comes up that the view that forms in your head is absurd. Be honest here. Hehe, be honest as if we had that option……

I reflected in the past, when I was yet mired in a Republican upbringing.

Convinced the Iraq War was righteous. Convinced Democrat economic policy would be catastrophic. So many topics, so many times. Lessons learned upon self reflection. The Republican position, when challenged, offered nothing in its own defense. Merely argumentative tools and deflection. Never facts. At least, none that were real upon further examination. It was all lies. Imagine a person who stopped to reflect on that, and found it troubling.

I also reflected in 2015, and 2016. Upon the rise of naked and unseemly fascism in the guise of a bloated orange husk. An inhuman monster that promised everyone everything, and would offer nothing. Past experience taught me to see through those lies. So the offer of an "outsider to disrupt the status quo" lost all appeal upon the debate stage. Honesty then forced my hand. To renounce them as they accepted the devil's bargain. To sell their souls and surrender to hate... merely to harm others.

Self Reflection made me the Democrat voter I am today. And the story does not end there.

Isn’t there a considerable difference in how a political or any news would be internally experienced by someone who is unaware their worldview is the profoundly ridiculous? So is that our condition?

You keep speaking of profoundly ridiculous views. I have shared many over the years. And yes, news is processed differently based on one's Ego and its political affiliation.
But not everything in the world is ridiculous. Not every position is wrong. Nor all contradictory "facts" true. There is a right and a wrong. There is one objective reality. But we all exist at different distances from knowing it. Not all of our beliefs are equal, and we all likely hold some that are wrong. Some more than others. To be determined by educated rigor and the scientific method, as best we understand them.

I realized that my resentment at being awakened was absurd.

You loaded that statement, with nearly all you have said before, over the years.
People are not equal dreamers.

 

[ivwshane]

Abso-fucking-lutely.


Yelling at clouds, especially for those of us here.

For society at large, the "value" of "political opinion" is the effect Fox News and co. have had on the minds of millions over the past decades. To pollute and corrupt into endorsing madness. To tell lies and convince people that up is down and down is up. The value is power. Oft derived from propaganda. Speech, given effect, has a powerful purpose. Just... not our speech here. Due to its format and limited nature, and even more limited audience.

State TV, that is the naked value of political opinion. Where its value is most obvious. That sure as hell is not nothing, and it is not directed inward for self reflection.


I reflected in the past, when I was yet mired in a Republican upbringing.

Convinced the Iraq War was righteous. Convinced Democrat economic policy would be catastrophic. So many topics, so many times. Lessons learned upon self reflection. The Republican position, when challenged, offered nothing in its own defense. Merely argumentative tools and deflection. Never facts. At least, none that were real upon further examination. It was all lies. Imagine a person who stopped to reflect on that, and found it troubling.

I also reflected in 2015, and 2016. Upon the rise of naked and unseemly fascism in the guise of a bloated orange husk. An inhuman monster that promised everyone everything, and would offer nothing. Past experience taught me to see through those lies. So the offer of an "outsider to disrupt the status quo" lost all appeal upon the debate stage. Honesty then forced my hand. To renounce them as they accepted the devil's bargain. To sell their souls and surrender to hate... merely to harm others.

Self Reflection made me the Democrat voter I am today. And the story does not end there.

You keep speaking of profoundly ridiculous views. I have shared many over the years. And yes, news is processed differently based on one's Ego and its political affiliation.
But not everything in the world is ridiculous. Not every position is wrong. Nor all contradictory "facts" true. There is a right and a wrong. There is one objective reality. But we all exist at different distances from knowing it. Not all of our beliefs are equal, and we all likely hold some that are wrong. Some more than others. To be determined by educated rigor and the scientific method, as best we understand them.

You loaded that statement, with nearly all you have said before, over the years.
People are not equal dreamers.

I mean this sincerely…witnessing your transformation first hand gave me hope that people could change, or more importantly, wake up and see the lies they’ve been told and believed. You gave me hope that people are indeed capable of self reflecting and questioning what they believe and recognizing that their feelings had betrayed them. Not only that but you also didn’t just exchange one false narrative for another, you didn’t just move from one extreme to another, you still question what you are told and you didn’t trade one side’s talking points for the other side’s. It’s truly remarkable. I wish there was a recipe for people to follow to go through their own transformation but I have yet to see anything work. You set aside your ego in order to seek truth and I just wanted to commend you for that. I wish others here and people abroad would do that but it appears most will die with their heads in the sand in order to protect their ego.

Being honest with oneself is very freeing. It allows you to seek the truth and not have to twist yourself in knots to maintain your feels. It makes being wrong ok and learning easier. Sadly it’s a skill one has to learn and it goes against our most basic instincts and so it’s rarely something people are willingly able to learn.

Moonbeam, I’m sorry but I have no idea what the f you are talking about. Since jaskalas seemed to have no problem replying to you I’m going to assume it’s a me problem and not you

 

[Moonbeam]

Abso-fucking-lutely.


Yelling at clouds, especially for those of us here.

For society at large, the "value" of "political opinion" is the effect Fox News and co. have had on the minds of millions over the past decades. To pollute and corrupt into endorsing madness. To tell lies and convince people that up is down and down is up. The value is power. Oft derived from propaganda. Speech, given effect, has a powerful purpose. Just... not our speech here. Due to its format and limited nature, and even more limited audience.

State TV, that is the naked value of political opinion. Where its value is most obvious. That sure as hell is not nothing, and it is not directed inward for self reflection.


I reflected in the past, when I was yet mired in a Republican upbringing.

Convinced the Iraq War was righteous. Convinced Democrat economic policy would be catastrophic. So many topics, so many times. Lessons learned upon self reflection. The Republican position, when challenged, offered nothing in its own defense. Merely argumentative tools and deflection. Never facts. At least, none that were real upon further examination. It was all lies. Imagine a person who stopped to reflect on that, and found it troubling.

I also reflected in 2015, and 2016. Upon the rise of naked and unseemly fascism in the guise of a bloated orange husk. An inhuman monster that promised everyone everything, and would offer nothing. Past experience taught me to see through those lies. So the offer of an "outsider to disrupt the status quo" lost all appeal upon the debate stage. Honesty then forced my hand. To renounce them as they accepted the devil's bargain. To sell their souls and surrender to hate... merely to harm others.

Self Reflection made me the Democrat voter I am today. And the story does not end there.

You keep speaking of profoundly ridiculous views. I have shared many over the years. And yes, news is processed differently based on one's Ego and its political affiliation.
But not everything in the world is ridiculous. Not every position is wrong. Nor all contradictory "facts" true. There is a right and a wrong. There is one objective reality. But we all exist at different distances from knowing it. Not all of our beliefs are equal, and we all likely hold some that are wrong. Some more than others. To be determined by educated rigor and the scientific method, as best we understand them.

You loaded that statement, with nearly all you have said before, over the years.
People are not equal dreamers.

So once you knew but now you know what you knew was absurd. So once you knew and now you know. What really changed? You remain a knower, a believer, the Democrat voter you are today. You seek to escape the state of self absurdity by perfecting yourself. How is that not perfectly absurd? People tie strings to balloons because otherwise they will float away? That is because the intention is to have the balloon. What would you choose if by letting go you floated away? You take pride in what you believe and anchor yourself thereby. Do you know the fate of the
Rock Biter in The Neverending Story?

 

[cytg111]

Hehehe

 

[Moonbeam]

Abso-fucking-lutely.


Yelling at clouds, especially for those of us here.

For society at large, the "value" of "political opinion" is the effect Fox News and co. have had on the minds of millions over the past decades. To pollute and corrupt into endorsing madness. To tell lies and convince people that up is down and down is up. The value is power. Oft derived from propaganda. Speech, given effect, has a powerful purpose. Just... not our speech here. Due to its format and limited nature, and even more limited audience.

State TV, that is the naked value of political opinion. Where its value is most obvious. That sure as hell is not nothing, and it is not directed inward for self reflection.


I reflected in the past, when I was yet mired in a Republican upbringing.

Convinced the Iraq War was righteous. Convinced Democrat economic policy would be catastrophic. So many topics, so many times. Lessons learned upon self reflection. The Republican position, when challenged, offered nothing in its own defense. Merely argumentative tools and deflection. Never facts. At least, none that were real upon further examination. It was all lies. Imagine a person who stopped to reflect on that, and found it troubling.

I also reflected in 2015, and 2016. Upon the rise of naked and unseemly fascism in the guise of a bloated orange husk. An inhuman monster that promised everyone everything, and would offer nothing. Past experience taught me to see through those lies. So the offer of an "outsider to disrupt the status quo" lost all appeal upon the debate stage. Honesty then forced my hand. To renounce them as they accepted the devil's bargain. To sell their souls and surrender to hate... merely to harm others.

Self Reflection made me the Democrat voter I am today. And the story does not end there.

You keep speaking of profoundly ridiculous views. I have shared many over the years. And yes, news is processed differently based on one's Ego and its political affiliation.
But not everything in the world is ridiculous. Not every position is wrong. Nor all contradictory "facts" true. There is a right and a wrong. There is one objective reality. But we all exist at different distances from knowing it. Not all of our beliefs are equal, and we all likely hold some that are wrong. Some more than others. To be determined by educated rigor and the scientific method, as best we understand them.

You loaded that statement, with nearly all you have said before, over the years.
People are not equal dreamers.

So once you knew but now you know what you knew was absurd. So once you knew and now you know. What really changed? You remain a knower, a believer, the Democrat voter you are today. You seek to escape the state of self absurdity by perfecting yourself. How is that not perfectly absurd? People tie strings to balloons because otherwise they will float away? That is because the intention is to have the balloon. What would you choose if by letting go you floated away? You take pride in what you believe and anchor yourself thereby. Do you know the fate of the Rock Biter in The Neverending Story?

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonbeam, I’m sorry but I have no idea what the f you are talking about. Since jaskalas seemed to have no problem replying to you I’m going to assume it’s a me problem and not you

I wanted to share what I said and doing so made me happy. You are sorry you didn’t follow, my niece was concerned about being a bother. It’s all the same sort of thing. I enjoyed the doing.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

I'm rephrasing the rhetorical questions below as statements following the formulations as close as I can just as an exercise for myself.

Do I hear the sharpening of knives? Before we get started let me emphasize the intention here is to look at your absurdity not mine. What is the value of political opinion on topical news items otherwise? Of what value to the development of self awareness can one derive from the focus on the self absurdity of other people. Isn’t that a given?

The insight provided by the awareness of one’s own self absurdity and the intention to profit from it, ask yourself if you agree, would it not lie in the attitudinal shift provided by the changed in perspective such awareness would imply? Do you reflexively think to yourself when some item of political news comes up that the view that forms in your head is absurd. Be honest here. Hehe, be honest as if we had that option……

Isn’t there a considerable difference in how a political or any news would be internally experienced by someone who is unaware their worldview is the profoundly ridiculous? So is that our condition?

Moonbeam is preparing to be attacked for his ideas in this thread. There is no value to ones political opinions on topical news items if one is not looking at their own absurdity as opposed to Moonbeam's absurdity. It is a given that one cannot derive value to the development of self-awareness by focusing on the self-absurdity of other people.

The profit from the insight provided by the awareness of ones own absurdity lies in the change in attitude provided by the change in perspective that is implied by such awareness. When responding to an item of political news one ought to reflexively think to oneself that the view which forms in their head is absurd. No one can be honest about this.

People internally experience political or other news items in considerably different ways depending on their level of awareness that their worldview is profoundly ridiculous. This is part of the human condition.

 

[Jaskalas]

So once you knew but now you know what you knew was absurd. So once you knew and now you know. What really changed? You remain a knower, a believer, the Democrat voter you are today. You seek to escape the state of self absurdity by perfecting yourself. How is that not perfectly absurd? People tie strings to balloons because otherwise they will float away? That is because the intention is to have the balloon. What would you choose if by letting go you floated away? You take pride in what you believe and anchor yourself thereby. Do you know the fate of the Rock Biter in The Neverending Story?

That's a lot of words to just to argue bothsides™.
Is it not?

Had a feeling you'd be going back there. Which is why I placed value in describing that there is a right and a wrong. I held onto that balloon because not all dreamers are equally distant from reality. Not all "facts" are equal, because not all sacred cows are real. But an objective reality does exist and when I witness a group of Nazi like people organizing around the destruction of a Democracy, to replace that Democracy with fascist tyranny as humans often like to do. I will oppose such actions as I see them. Here, you will see me "yell at clouds" over it. Something about "Life, Liberty, and Happiness" appeals to me, values and a lived experience I would see all people peacefully enjoy. I am witness to Nazi like people organizing around the destruction and wholesale elimination of my sacred cows.

See, I will not let go of the idea that there is a fundamental difference and value to be found in America's founding ideals... over, say, North Korea's regime of enslavement, torture, and murder. I know there is a right and a wrong. Freedom and Equality For All should not be idly seized and taken away from us, or others. Ordinarily we should live and let live. But I am witness to violence being organized against that. If I were to sit idly by and do nothing in response, I would indeed share the fate of the Rock Biter.

Taking a step back, perhaps you would tell me not to believe my lying eyes. How dare I hold onto this balloon?

But if you are going to defend Jan 6th, or "They are eating the dogs and the cats", or "She was a domestic terrorist".... then you and I are going to have irreconcilable differences. Now, if it wasn't for the active destruction of human rights, we would be able to live with those differences. But I will not entertain a re-examination of those lies over the facts as I know them, and I will not treat those ideas, those lies, as equal to the truth. Especially when those lies are being used to hurt people.

To wit you have repeatedly taken offense at the idea. That, in the defense of my truth, I might speak up, or organize, or act so that others may live.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm rephrasing the rhetorical questions below as statements following the formulations as close as I can just as an exercise for myself.

That’s fine but why not just give your personal answers to the questions as that might by why I asked them.

Moonbeam is preparing to be attacked for his ideas in this thread.

I don’t see how the idea of preparing applies. I thought it more a prediction based on personal experience, self awareness of my own ridiculousness and a built in reluctance to confront it creating denial and shame. So did my prediction come true? Does self awareness of one’s self absurdity illuminate a universal?

There is no value to ones political opinions on topical news items if one is not looking at their own absurdity as opposed to Moonbeam's absurdity. It is a given that one cannot derive value to the development of self-awareness by focusing on the self-absurdity of other people.

What do you think of that assuming it is what I said? Any value there for you?

The profit from the insight provided by the awareness of ones own absurdity lies in the change in attitude provided by the change in perspective that is implied by such awareness. When responding to an item of political news one ought to reflexively think to oneself that the view which forms in their head is absurd. No one can be honest about this.

But the moment an ‘ought to’ appears a value judgment is implied and therein lies the trap. Can you honestly see that or not? Is it really that I am saying what ought to be or that the we live in a state of ‘ought anxiety’? From that alteration in perspective does it not fall out that self absurdity is motivated by a sense one ought not to be that way? Would an inner awareness of this as factual change anything for you.

Out

People internally experience political or other news items in considerably different ways depending on their level of awareness that their worldview is profoundly ridiculous. This is part of the human condition.

Is it part of the human condition. If so why and is there a way out?

 

[Pontius Dilate]

That’s fine but why not just give your personal answers to the questions as that might by why I asked them.

I don’t see how the idea of preparing applies. I thought it more a prediction based on personal experience, self awareness of my own ridiculousness and a built in reluctance to confront it creating denial and shame. So did my prediction come true? Does self awareness of one’s self absurdity illuminate a universal?

What do you think of that assuming it is what I said? Any value there for you?

But the moment an ‘ought to’ appears a value judgment is implied and therein lies the trap. Can you honestly see that or not? Is it really that I am saying what ought to be or that the we live in a state of ‘ought anxiety’? From that alteration in perspective does it not fall out that self absurdity is motivated by a sense one ought not to be that way? Would an inner awareness of this as factual change anything for you.

Is it part of the human condition. If so why and is there a way out?

The way I read it your answers were baked into the questions which is why I called them rhetorical. The way you phrased them they appeared to me to be more statements than questions as such. For example regarding 'ought to' it's clear that you think that it's a benefit to be aware of ones own self-absurdity. You speak of profiting from the insight provided by the awareness and define what that profit is. Then you ask whether we reflexively think to ourselves when some item of political news comes up that the view that forms in our heads is absurd. You of course then cut it off by saying we're not capable of being honest, so it seems the answer doesn't really matter.

So to me your questions are expressions of your viewpoint. Beyond that I don't have any answers for you.

I accept your correction about preparing, so could rather say Moonbeam predicts he will be attacked or Moonbeam anticipates attack if you like.

 

[Moonbeam]

The way I read it your answers were baked into the questions which is why I called them rhetorical. The way you phrased them they appeared to me to be more statements than questions as such. For example regarding 'ought to' it's clear that you think that it's a benefit to be aware of ones own self-absurdity. You speak of profiting from the insight provided by the awareness and define what that profit is.

Yes, of course. I am expressing a point of view to which I attach value and to which I believe there is a resistance that results in it being under appreciated. The point however is not in the claim that is so but rather do you see and agree. There is nothing I can gain by an assertion I hold a valuable perspective. I ask you if you can anything in my reasoning or see any motives as to why not.

Then you ask whether we reflexively think to ourselves when some item of political news comes up that the view that forms in our heads is absurd. You of course then cut it off by saying we're not capable of being honest, so it seems the answer doesn't really matter.

That is only true if you have assumed a truth that is false and have never considered that possibility. I am suggesting we are ridiculous that way. I said there is a benefit to the realization of the absurdity of how we act chat can be had with honest self appraisal. Clearly the fact of massive dishonesty does not make belief in the absurdity inevitable. That is what I want to suggest. If you value truth over ideological belief things beyond the bounds of our opinions can happen. Here and there people wake up.

So to me your questions are expressions of your viewpoint. Beyond that I don't have any answers for you.

Clearly I don’t appear to have no answers although that is more the result of having no questions than of having answers. The truth I think is profoundly simple. Gratitude precludes having frustrated needs.

I accept your correction about preparing, so could rather say Moonbeam predicts he will be attacked or Moonbeam anticipates attack if you like.

If unhappiness arises out of a need for self validation it is incurable if the search reaches outside. There one is the subject of fate. To accept yourself as you are, ridiculousness and all depends on nobody but you.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

Yes, of course. I am expressing a point of view to which I attach value and to which I believe there is a resistance that results in it being under appreciated. The point however is not in the claim that is so but rather do you see and agree. There is nothing I can gain by an assertion I hold a valuable perspective. I ask you if you can anything in my reasoning or see any motives as to why not.



That is only true if you have assumed a truth that is false and have never considered that possibility. I am suggesting we are ridiculous that way. I said there is a benefit to the realization of the absurdity of how we act chat can be had with honest self appraisal. Clearly the fact of massive dishonesty does not make belief in the absurdity inevitable. That is what I want to suggest. If you value truth over ideological belief things beyond the bounds of our opinions can happen. Here and there people wake up.

Clearly I don’t appear to have no answers although that is more the result of having no questions than of having answers. The truth I think is profoundly simple. Gratitude precludes having frustrated needs.



If unhappiness arises out of a need for self validation it is incurable if the search reaches outside. There one is the subject of fate. To accept yourself as you are, ridiculousness and all depends on nobody but you.

Would you give an example or two of what you mean by the self-absurdity that one would benefit from honestly examining in oneself?