i really want to use that high tech crap from the radeon for those 3d adventure games, (if they make anymore playable ones, come on LucasArts!!!!), then i can take advantage of that smoothvision, anisootropic, high resolutions, and not worry about speed, cuz its just a nice slow paced game, and as for Halo, hopefully it will come out for PC, just set nice settings with 16 tap and stuff, oh man itll be sweet
lol, sorry but I gotta call someone up there (don't know who it was) a dumbass for pointing out the core clock of the ATi cards. it DOESN'T MEAN A THING what the core clock is (so long as it's within what the memory can do), the limit is the memory bandwidth.
second, they probably synchronized the core with the mem so that they wouldn't have to worry about the different clocks. often u get a performance HIT when you have asynchronous clocks, compared to synchronous clocks.
3rd, HyperZ II does do a fair amount for the Radeon 8500. making up for whatever deficiencies in performance the 7206 drivers give it, (well, not quite, but in most benches, yes) so it can compete well with the Ti500.
4th, this discussion has turned into a basic I hate nVidia or I hate ATi flame war. STFU, you all know the facts (well I got to wonder about AAO), and continue denying different parts. get a grip!
had the ATi Radeon 8500 been launched with nVidia like drivers (ie, they work as advertized out of the box with full performance), the Radeon 8500 would most likely be the gamers choice. why? no Geforce out there has ATi's DVD acceleration (though nVidia is set to up the ante I hear), NOR the Hydra Vision, nor the guaranteed 2D quality (you get bad 2D with a Radeon, return it for another, whereas u have to find a specific GF3 to get great 2D), Truform, probably equal or better FSAA (tough to say so early on), much faster T&L unit (from 3DMark2K1 synthetic tests), DX 8.1 support..
so yes, the ATi Radeon 8500 has more features (even with the state of the drivers today) than an nVidia card. is it acceptable what we're getting out of it? no! which is why we've harped on them for who knows how long (must have been now over a month).
second, they probably synchronized the core with the mem so that they wouldn't have to worry about the different clocks. often u get a performance HIT when you have asynchronous clocks, compared to synchronous clocks.
3rd, HyperZ II does do a fair amount for the Radeon 8500. making up for whatever deficiencies in performance the 7206 drivers give it, (well, not quite, but in most benches, yes) so it can compete well with the Ti500.
4th, this discussion has turned into a basic I hate nVidia or I hate ATi flame war. STFU, you all know the facts (well I got to wonder about AAO), and continue denying different parts. get a grip!
had the ATi Radeon 8500 been launched with nVidia like drivers (ie, they work as advertized out of the box with full performance), the Radeon 8500 would most likely be the gamers choice. why? no Geforce out there has ATi's DVD acceleration (though nVidia is set to up the ante I hear), NOR the Hydra Vision, nor the guaranteed 2D quality (you get bad 2D with a Radeon, return it for another, whereas u have to find a specific GF3 to get great 2D), Truform, probably equal or better FSAA (tough to say so early on), much faster T&L unit (from 3DMark2K1 synthetic tests), DX 8.1 support..
so yes, the ATi Radeon 8500 has more features (even with the state of the drivers today) than an nVidia card. is it acceptable what we're getting out of it? no! which is why we've harped on them for who knows how long (must have been now over a month).
<< it DOESN'T MEAN A THING what the core clock is (so long as it's within what the memory can do), the limit is the memory bandwidth.
>>
Not true. At least with GF3, which scales perfectly with clock/memory, unlike older GF2 chips.
<< ATI Radeon 8500 is very determined to bring nVidia down. Sh!t is gonna go down...
>>LOL!
They kept saying that about the Radeon for over a year. Drivers make or break a video card. ATi already pissed off a bunch of their fans with releasing another "hype" product with bad drivers. It's the same old story that I've read on these forums a million times. Am I missing something here?I might be a major ATI fan right now, but its not set, same with intel and amd.
I choose the original radeons over the gf2s for obvious reasons, at the same price, the 64 meg radeon would perform very close to the gf2gts, but had a lot better options,vivo, dvd, 2d.
Now I choose the 8500 over the gf3 for far more reasons, its not a hard choice.
The card has superior hardware. I also has all the features mentions, truform, smoothvision, etc. Its still a lower price too.
For me, at this level, performance doesn't mean that much. But if you want to play that game, it is very simple. Two points that should be noted is that ATIs performance hits when raised IQ is much smaller than the GF3. To get a GF3 to have the same IQ as a radeon, you must adjust features that aren't even in the regular drivers (64tap). If Nvidia were to set their default settings to a LOD close to the radeon, then their performance on most games would be rougly equal, its not how good the drivers are, its the tricks both companies are using to fool you can say theirs is faster.
There is no getting around that the 8500 is a superior card, its right there in numbers, and has more features than you can count. It came out far later than gf3, so why can't nvidia fans admit that? When the gf4 or whatever comes out, it very well might be superior, but unless nvidia puts more features and less speed into it, there will always be an arguement for ati.
I choose the original radeons over the gf2s for obvious reasons, at the same price, the 64 meg radeon would perform very close to the gf2gts, but had a lot better options,vivo, dvd, 2d.
Now I choose the 8500 over the gf3 for far more reasons, its not a hard choice.
The card has superior hardware. I also has all the features mentions, truform, smoothvision, etc. Its still a lower price too.
For me, at this level, performance doesn't mean that much. But if you want to play that game, it is very simple. Two points that should be noted is that ATIs performance hits when raised IQ is much smaller than the GF3. To get a GF3 to have the same IQ as a radeon, you must adjust features that aren't even in the regular drivers (64tap). If Nvidia were to set their default settings to a LOD close to the radeon, then their performance on most games would be rougly equal, its not how good the drivers are, its the tricks both companies are using to fool you can say theirs is faster.
There is no getting around that the 8500 is a superior card, its right there in numbers, and has more features than you can count. It came out far later than gf3, so why can't nvidia fans admit that? When the gf4 or whatever comes out, it very well might be superior, but unless nvidia puts more features and less speed into it, there will always be an arguement for ati.
<< Uhh... yeah, whatever... Smoothvison is AA with a major performance hit compared to the GeForce 3 Ti 500.
Yeah whatever to you man. Smoothvision looks better. Turn on Anisotropic filter than your geforce is going to choke too.
Who would actually use AA in a FPS game anyway. Higher resolution and Anisotropic Filter is where it's at for FPS games. Racing games need FSAA and smoothvision is plenty fast for racing games. >>
I use both Anisotropic filtering (32 Tap) and Quincunx AA and haven't seen a game choke on it yet! Even the AquaNox demo plays surprisingly smooth! Q3A looks and plays great as well.
<< There is no getting around that the 8500 is a superior card, its right there in numbers, and has more features than you can count. It came out far later than gf3, so why can't nvidia fans admit that? When the gf4 or whatever comes out, it very well might be superior, but unless nvidia puts more features and less speed into it, there will always be an arguement for ati. >>
A "superior card" that will most likely will never come to full maturity because of ATi's boneheaded driver development team (let's all say a prayer for them). It happened with the original Radeon, the driver-bug plagued Rage Fury cards, etc. It appears to be an endless cycle IMO.
This thread is the perfect example of some people that seem to base their self esteem off of a certain companies success be it nVidia or ATi.
I'd like to specifically congratulate Soccerman and EMAN for not falling into that trap, and displaying no signs of being anything but entirely unbiased and objective.
Both are great cards, both have their advantages over each other and neither card is undeniably superior in every respect.
A quick comment for those that are desperately fond of either brand: If your favored company doesnt rule the world, and do everything perfectly... you don't have to commit suicide. There is more to life then the success of ATi/nVidia and specifically the Radeon 8500/GeForce3 Ti500.
*When I specifically point out Soccerman and EMAN as being unbiased I don't meant to imply that 'everyone' else in this thread is... just some.
I won't bother pointing out which ones as you all can make your own guesses at that.
Now you may all continue ranting on about how you hate either company and we must all bow down and worship one card or the other.
I'd like to specifically congratulate Soccerman and EMAN for not falling into that trap, and displaying no signs of being anything but entirely unbiased and objective.
Both are great cards, both have their advantages over each other and neither card is undeniably superior in every respect.
A quick comment for those that are desperately fond of either brand: If your favored company doesnt rule the world, and do everything perfectly... you don't have to commit suicide. There is more to life then the success of ATi/nVidia and specifically the Radeon 8500/GeForce3 Ti500.
*When I specifically point out Soccerman and EMAN as being unbiased I don't meant to imply that 'everyone' else in this thread is... just some.
I won't bother pointing out which ones as you all can make your own guesses at that.
Now you may all continue ranting on about how you hate either company and we must all bow down and worship one card or the other.
No bias here. I almost purchased a Radeon 8500 in hopes that ATi had gotten their act together with this release. After reading Anand's as well as other web site reviews, I came to the conclusion it was more of the same BS ATi has been doing for years: hype a product up with cool features and then shove it out the door with crap drivers. ATi seems to be following the same path as game software developers by fixing the bugs "later." This is not acceptable, IMHO. So, I stuck with buying NVIDIA again. Man, that Radeon 8500DV was looking sweet two months ago.
Compellor, all companies hype their product. I remember when TNT first came out and the hype, oh my god and it barely beat a voodoo 2 and sometimes got beaten because of glide in some games. But people were like oh my god it's the best card with 32bit colors but look at that TNT core now.
ATI has improved greatly since the days of Rage or whatever even though I never actually used a rage pro except in my laptop for 2D. The Radeon's actually do perform and have been releasing drivers every few weeks. It's really a matter of time until they get it right.
ATI has improved greatly since the days of Rage or whatever even though I never actually used a rage pro except in my laptop for 2D. The Radeon's actually do perform and have been releasing drivers every few weeks. It's really a matter of time until they get it right.
<< ATI has improved greatly since the days of Rage or whatever even though I never actually used a rage pro except in my laptop for 2D. The Radeon's actually do perform and have been releasing drivers every few weeks. It's really a matter of time until they get it right. >>
Exactly!!! Its funny that the legions of nVidiots harp on ATI's driver incompetence, how long ago was it that Detonator's actually posed a threat of doing as their name suggested? Blowing up your system? It took a while for nVidia to get it right, hell, not a single person here can deny that 3dfx was stomping nVidia in driver compatibility from day 1 til the day nVidia bought 'em out. Considering ATI has substantial resources at their disposal that match if not eclipse nVidia, I think its a pretty good bet that ATI will get it right, particularly with all of the reviews saying ATI is serious about getting their drivers out for the R8500.
As for being a troll Leon, thats funny, since I've had the same card for about a year, and have never owned an ATI card. As 3d cards go, I've used 3dfx and nVidia. Judging from your need to insult my lowly V5 as well as the R8500, its obvious you've been carrying nVidia's Fanboy torch for some time. It never ceases to amaze me how fanboys get excited over marginal clock increases and frames from their GeForce cards. I guess thats what you've been brain-washed to expect after upgrading to the newest $300-400 GeForceX GTS/Titaniums/Pro/256/Ultra every 6 months. LoL, I patiently waited for close to a year waiting to see what would come out to rival a GeForce, and now the Radeon 8500 looks to be the one. In the same time frame, I've seen all the nVidiots scrambling to get the newest card, only to sell it for something slightly faster 6 months later. You said it best yourself, the GeForce3 scales with clock increases, because its old tech being shoved down your throats....think they licensed NetBurst off Intel??? Hmmm......
Chiz
9fps @ 1024 768 32bit 4x FSAA in Serious Sam must be fun
Well, this does not make sense to me somehow. I play SS on my V5 at 800x600 everything maxed with smooth framerates and it is OK, looks extremely nice, specially with those "colorfull colors".
It does not matter, FSAA or not, in SS You actually do not see any difference, since it is a fast FPS game.
The game is the thing You enjoy, not the high resolution as a test for Your hardware (this is called mental masturbation). And could You comment on how the gameplay changes going from 800x600 to 1600x1200 ??? It does not !
What is extremely important with V5 - the drivers are so rock solid, it plays everything starting from the old games ending up with games that are still coming out. And FSAA work with EVRY game. And that is something. No driver changes for me, no nothing. And the picture quality is just amazing.
Well, this does not make sense to me somehow. I play SS on my V5 at 800x600 everything maxed with smooth framerates and it is OK, looks extremely nice, specially with those "colorfull colors".
It does not matter, FSAA or not, in SS You actually do not see any difference, since it is a fast FPS game.
The game is the thing You enjoy, not the high resolution as a test for Your hardware (this is called mental masturbation
). And could You comment on how the gameplay changes going from 800x600 to 1600x1200 ??? It does not !What is extremely important with V5 - the drivers are so rock solid, it plays everything starting from the old games ending up with games that are still coming out. And FSAA work with EVRY game. And that is something. No driver changes for me, no nothing. And the picture quality is just amazing.
9fps @ 1024 768 32bit 4x FSAA in Serious Sam must be fun
Well, this does not make sense to me somehow. I play SS on my V5 at 800x600 everything maxed with smooth framerates and it is OK, looks extremely nice, specially with those "colorfull colors".
It does not matter, FSAA or not, in SS You actually do not see any difference, since it is a fast FPS game.
The game is the thing You enjoy, not the high resolution as a test for Your hardware (this is called mental masturbation). And could You comment on how the gameplay changes going from 800x600 to 1600x1200 ??? It does not !
What is extremely important with V5 - the drivers are so rock solid, it plays everything starting from the old games ending up with games that are still coming out. And FSAA work with EVRY game. And that is something. No driver changes for me, no nothing. And the picture quality is just amazing.
It is what makes You happy, not what gives You 666 FPS at 666x666 resolution...
Well, this does not make sense to me somehow. I play SS on my V5 at 800x600 everything maxed with smooth framerates and it is OK, looks extremely nice, specially with those "colorfull colors".
It does not matter, FSAA or not, in SS You actually do not see any difference, since it is a fast FPS game.
The game is the thing You enjoy, not the high resolution as a test for Your hardware (this is called mental masturbation
). And could You comment on how the gameplay changes going from 800x600 to 1600x1200 ??? It does not !What is extremely important with V5 - the drivers are so rock solid, it plays everything starting from the old games ending up with games that are still coming out. And FSAA work with EVRY game. And that is something. No driver changes for me, no nothing. And the picture quality is just amazing.
It is what makes You happy, not what gives You 666 FPS at 666x666 resolution...
It's funny, Leon dropped in here to tell about some interesting(to some of us anyways) info about future products, and Immediately the zealots start crapping in the thread.
If you don't have something useful to say, STFU instead.
nVidiots used to be the most annoying crowd around here, but I gotta say the ATidiots have overtaken that place.
I almost wish ATi would go belly up just so some people would shut up, would almost be worth it...
If you don't have something useful to say, STFU instead.
nVidiots used to be the most annoying crowd around here, but I gotta say the ATidiots have overtaken that place.
I almost wish ATi would go belly up just so some people would shut up, would almost be worth it...
Remember last year NVidia announced the Geforce 3 on Feb 27. It was a month later before the GF3 hardware was reviewed. It was another month after that before the GF3 showed up in quantity. My point is that if they launch the NV25 in January, I do not expect to see a review of the hardware until February and even then, I do not expect to see it generally available until March. Now I could be wrong since it is based on the Xbox graphics core. But I doubt it. Even if it does come out on time, you should expect it to cost about $399.
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