Olympics scandal: judging error costs Korean all-around gold

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious
i frankly don't care who won the event. what i do care about is korea "suffering" and "crying" their hearts out over this incident. especially after the stunt they tried to pull in the winter olympics...can't help but love their whining.

cry more korea.

Koreans are just upset and angry about these kind of stupid issues; they're not 'suffering' and 'crying'. You could say Americans are 'suffering' and 'crying' because of what happened in New York, but you can't use those words on this issue.

uh, what does New York have ANYTHING to do with how korea continues to whine about the past 2 olympics?
Try harder.

espn even had an article about koreans flooding message boards and organizing mass protests. that's where the "crying" comes from. again, my point is why have any sympathy after all the B.S. they pulled 2 years ago over Ohno?

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
There has been some occasions that Olympics committes did revoke their once made decision. Hell, they even revoked one decision even a FREAKING YEAR LATER. What's the point of suspending the judges and not giving the gold medal to whom it belongs to? The Korean guy deserves his medal that he WON.

Yup I agree with you.

Koing

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
There has been some occasions that Olympics committes did revoke their once made decision. Hell, they even revoked one decision even a FREAKING YEAR LATER. What's the point of suspending the judges and not giving the gold medal to whom it belongs to? The Korean guy deserves his medal that he WON.

Cry me a river.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
There has been some occasions that Olympics committes did revoke their once made decision. Hell, they even revoked one decision even a FREAKING YEAR LATER. What's the point of suspending the judges and not giving the gold medal to whom it belongs to? The Korean guy deserves his medal that he WON.

Cry me a river.

they should join the koreans in spamming ioc's website imo. heh.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: noto12ious

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious
i frankly don't care who won the event. what i do care about is korea "suffering" and "crying" their hearts out over this incident. especially after the stunt they tried to pull in the winter olympics...can't help but love their whining.

cry more korea.

Koreans are just upset and angry about these kind of stupid issues; they're not 'suffering' and 'crying'. You could say Americans are 'suffering' and 'crying' because of what happened in New York, but you can't use those words on this issue.

yes please ban noto12ious, complete dumbass.

name calling? looks like you're the one that should be banned. someone's bitter their country lost. haha.

Well, It's stupid of me to expect a decent conversation with a troll.
One last word, though...Someone's not bitter because my country's lost.
First off, I do not think the country's lost. Do you think it's some sort of a war?
Second, The guy didn't lose. He actually won and that's the whole point of this situation. He won but he doesn't get what he deserves and that's a problem.
It's not about U.S vs. S. Korea or American vs. Korean. It's simply about the wrong-doing of the Olympics committe. It's about giving the medal to the guy who deserves it.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious
i frankly don't care who won the event. what i do care about is korea "suffering" and "crying" their hearts out over this incident. especially after the stunt they tried to pull in the winter olympics...can't help but love their whining.

cry more korea.

Koreans are just upset and angry about these kind of stupid issues; they're not 'suffering' and 'crying'. You could say Americans are 'suffering' and 'crying' because of what happened in New York, but you can't use those words on this issue.

yes please ban noto12ious, complete dumbass.

name calling? looks like you're the one that should be banned. someone's bitter their country lost. haha.

Well, It's stupid of me to expect a decent conversation with a troll.
One last word, though...Someone's not bitter because my country's lost.
First off, I do not think the country's lost. Do you think it's some sort of a war?
Second, The guy didn't lose. He actually won and that's the whole point of this situation. He won but he doesn't get what he deserves and that's a problem.
It's not about U.S vs. S. Korea or American vs. Korean. It's simply about the wrong-doing of the Olympics committe. It's about giving the medal to the guy who deserves it.

I'm willing to bet the korea screwed up calculating his own starting score and now is crying about his mistake.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I'd mint another gold and give it to the Korean. This is not the first time this has happened.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious
i frankly don't care who won the event. what i do care about is korea "suffering" and "crying" their hearts out over this incident. especially after the stunt they tried to pull in the winter olympics...can't help but love their whining.

cry more korea.

Koreans are just upset and angry about these kind of stupid issues; they're not 'suffering' and 'crying'. You could say Americans are 'suffering' and 'crying' because of what happened in New York, but you can't use those words on this issue.

yes please ban noto12ious, complete dumbass.

name calling? looks like you're the one that should be banned. someone's bitter their country lost. haha.

Well, It's stupid of me to expect a decent conversation with a troll.
One last word, though...Someone's not bitter because my country's lost.
First off, I do not think the country's lost. Do you think it's some sort of a war?
Second, The guy didn't lose. He actually won and that's the whole point of this situation. He won but he doesn't get what he deserves and that's a problem.
It's not about U.S vs. S. Korea or American vs. Korean. It's simply about the wrong-doing of the Olympics committe. It's about giving the medal to the guy who deserves it.

I'm willing to bet the korea screwed up calculating his own starting score and now is crying about his mistake.

why is it korea's problem?
Then what's the point of having that many judges and having a committee

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious
i frankly don't care who won the event. what i do care about is korea "suffering" and "crying" their hearts out over this incident. especially after the stunt they tried to pull in the winter olympics...can't help but love their whining.

cry more korea.

Koreans are just upset and angry about these kind of stupid issues; they're not 'suffering' and 'crying'. You could say Americans are 'suffering' and 'crying' because of what happened in New York, but you can't use those words on this issue.

yes please ban noto12ious, complete dumbass.

name calling? looks like you're the one that should be banned. someone's bitter their country lost. haha.

Well, It's stupid of me to expect a decent conversation with a troll.
One last word, though...Someone's not bitter because my country's lost.
First off, I do not think the country's lost. Do you think it's some sort of a war?
Second, The guy didn't lose. He actually won and that's the whole point of this situation. He won but he doesn't get what he deserves and that's a problem.
It's not about U.S vs. S. Korea or American vs. Korean. It's simply about the wrong-doing of the Olympics committe. It's about giving the medal to the guy who deserves it.

I'm willing to bet the korea screwed up calculating his own starting score and now is crying about his mistake.

why is it korea's problem?
Then what's the point of having that many judges and having a committee

In the real world you have to make sure you don't get screwed over. And it is the korean's problem because he got screwed.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: noto12ious
i frankly don't care who won the event. what i do care about is korea "suffering" and "crying" their hearts out over this incident. especially after the stunt they tried to pull in the winter olympics...can't help but love their whining.

cry more korea.

Koreans are just upset and angry about these kind of stupid issues; they're not 'suffering' and 'crying'. You could say Americans are 'suffering' and 'crying' because of what happened in New York, but you can't use those words on this issue.

yes please ban noto12ious, complete dumbass.

name calling? looks like you're the one that should be banned. someone's bitter their country lost. haha.

Well, It's stupid of me to expect a decent conversation with a troll.
One last word, though...Someone's not bitter because my country's lost.
First off, I do not think the country's lost. Do you think it's some sort of a war?
Second, The guy didn't lose. He actually won and that's the whole point of this situation. He won but he doesn't get what he deserves and that's a problem.
It's not about U.S vs. S. Korea or American vs. Korean. It's simply about the wrong-doing of the Olympics committe. It's about giving the medal to the guy who deserves it.

I already stated I did not care who "won" or lost. reading comprehension is your friend!
The technicalities do not concern me. Oh, except that one little part about South Korea missing the deadline to file their protest. Oops. It's not difficult to follow the rules.

 

[Dragnov]

I already stated I did not care who "won" or lost. reading comprehension is your friend!
The technicalities do not concern me. Oh, except that one little part about South Korea missing the deadline to file their protest. Oops. It's not difficult to follow the rules.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/gymnastics/news/story?id=1864339

"But Jade said the South Koreans did question the scoring as soon as the routine was over and were told by the judges to file a protest letter after the meet"

So unless you are part of the Korean Olympic team or one of the judges for the event how, do you know something we don't?

And how would you feel training for something your entire life only to be cut down short because of someone else's error? Really it's not Hamm's fault or the Koreans.. it's the judges, so please people stop attacking either side.

 

[ub4me]

Originally posted by: Dragnov

I already stated I did not care who "won" or lost. reading comprehension is your friend!
The technicalities do not concern me. Oh, except that one little part about South Korea missing the deadline to file their protest. Oops. It's not difficult to follow the rules.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/gymnastics/news/story?id=1864339

"But Jade said the South Koreans did question the scoring as soon as the routine was over and were told by the judges to file a protest letter after the meet"

So unless you are part of the Korean Olympic team or one of the judges for the event how, do you know something we don't?

And how would you feel training for something your entire life only to be cut down short because of someone else's error? Really it's not Hamm's fault or the Koreans.. it's the judges, so please people stop attacking either side.

Hahaha
End of the story for those who blamed Koreans.

 

[LongCoolMother]

regardless of the time. he won. period. it just isn't right to deny him the correct medal if he had won, clearly. it matters not that it was an unintentional mistake and that time has passed. i think they should just mint a medal and give to him what rightfully belongs to him, and they shouldn't take away hamm's medal either, as it was the judges' faults for the mistake and not the athlete.

 

[noto12ious]

Originally posted by: ub4me

Originally posted by: Dragnov

I already stated I did not care who "won" or lost. reading comprehension is your friend!
The technicalities do not concern me. Oh, except that one little part about South Korea missing the deadline to file their protest. Oops. It's not difficult to follow the rules.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/gymnastics/news/story?id=1864339

"But Jade said the South Koreans did question the scoring as soon as the routine was over and were told by the judges to file a protest letter after the meet"

So unless you are part of the Korean Olympic team or one of the judges for the event how, do you know something we don't?

And how would you feel training for something your entire life only to be cut down short because of someone else's error? Really it's not Hamm's fault or the Koreans.. it's the judges, so please people stop attacking either side.

Hahaha
End of the story for those who blamed Koreans.

"
"South Korea failed to lodge a protest in time, so the scoring could not be changed, said Philippe Silacci, spokesman for the federation, known as FIG. But Jae said the South Koreans did question the scoring as soon as the routine was over and were told by the judges to file a protest letter after the meet.



"They said that was the best they could do right there on the spot," she said. "It was a real basic injustice in judging practices." "


guess you conveniently left that part out.

edit: if the koreans did in fact file a protest letter AFTER the meet, and were still denied, then there's something wrong with the process. doesn't change anything i've said before about 2002.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
regardless of the time. he won. period. it just isn't right to deny him the correct medal if he had won, clearly. it matters not that it was an unintentional mistake and that time has passed. i think they should just mint a medal and give to him what rightfully belongs to him, and they shouldn't take away hamm's medal either, as it was the judges' faults for the mistake and not the athlete.

Those that have reviewed the entire event have said there were many judging mistakes. If you want to review one, you should review the entire thing. Im sure the standings would shift greatly if they did.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: freesia39

Originally posted by: Phokus
I still think the Judges were waaayyyy too nice to Hamm when he had that nasty spill on his pummel horse (or whatever it's called) routine. I didn't see the south korean dude make any mistakes.

ARGHHHHHH. dude hamm's vault was MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THAN THE KOREAN'S. if he had stuck it he would have had a much larger score. he performed most of the vault in the air, had decent height, but just couldn't land. by reasoning, since he just didn't land it, after the usual deductions, he could have had a 9.67. instead, he fell on his ass and lost five tenths.

the korean dude was also not going for it as hard as he should have. if you watched the team finals for the men, the japanese men attacked the high bar and scored the high scores (9.7's and 9.8's) that they needed to win the gold. paul hamm put the vault behind him and did THE SAME THING. the koreans believed they had it sewn up and became cautious. caution does NOT win. ask michelle kwan the last two olympics.

ironically, if Yang (the bronze medalist) been given the appropriate start point of 10.0 he would have won the meet.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: Koing


I'm still PRETTY dam sure that a .8 deduction is FAR too little for completely STACKING a landing. He also fell out of the lines. A .8xx deduction is no where near enough for the landing Hamm did. But Hamm really nailed his High Bar routine though 😀. He is obviously the best on that apparatus though.

Koing

I know there are guidelines to which the judges are to adhere to when determing how many tenths or fractions thereof they are suppose to deduct for mistakes; the landing that Hamm did on the vault may have very well been only a .8 reduction according to some type of rubric the olympic committe.

Of course, I don't have a copy of the official scoring guide(s), but I don't believe the scoring is completely subjective, there has to be some level of objectiveness to it.

I think that even if the korean had a start value of 10, doesn't automatically mean he would have won (after the fact yes, but not before), sequence of events, factors affect outcome. By calculation he would have won, but thats if he had the same number of deductions from the routine if he started with a 10 in the first place. The concept of logic I'm trying to explain doesn't come to mind right away, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

no, it was discovered after the fact and if the koreans had protested when they should have, he would have been awarded .100. the only real question is, could hamm have score .100 more in his final event in order to compete for the gold, in my opinion, no, as he already received the highest score awarded for any event on that final event.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


ironically, if Yang (the bronze medalist) been given the appropriate start point of 10.0 he would have won the meet.

what you are trying to say is that if his score was .10 higher he would have won. Saying that if he started out with a value of 10 he would have won is a logical fallicy imo, you can't say with certainty that he would have performed the routine exactly as he did with the same deductions/points if he started with a 10 instead of a 9.9.

What you can say is that if he had started with a 10 and did the routine exactly as he did with the start of 9.9, he would have won.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


ironically, if Yang (the bronze medalist) been given the appropriate start point of 10.0 he would have won the meet.

what you are trying to say is that if his score was .10 higher he would have won. Saying that if he started out with a value of 10 he would have won is a logical fallicy imo, you can't say with certainty that he would have performed the routine exactly as he did with the same deductions/points if he started with a 10 instead of a 9.9.

What you can say is that if he had started with a 10 and did the routine exactly as he did with the start of 9.9, he would have won.

No, he isn't. It was supposed to start at 10, not 9.9. He did his performance and it should have started at 10. But, it seems that the South Koreans didn't file proper rules for the protest.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


no, it was discovered after the fact and if the koreans had protested when they should have, he would have been awarded .100. the only real question is, could hamm have score .100 more in his final event in order to compete for the gold, in my opinion, no, as he already received the highest score awarded for any event on that final event.

He would have started .10 higher, not that he would have been "awarded" .10 more after he finished his routine.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


ironically, if Yang (the bronze medalist) been given the appropriate start point of 10.0 he would have won the meet.

what you are trying to say is that if his score was .10 higher he would have won. Saying that if he started out with a value of 10 he would have won is a logical fallicy imo, you can't say with certainty that he would have performed the routine exactly as he did with the same deductions/points if he started with a 10 instead of a 9.9.

What you can say is that if he had started with a 10 and did the routine exactly as he did with the start of 9.9, he would have won.

wrong

what the olympic committee is saying is, IF the koreans had launched the protest that day, his score would have been adjusted, so your logical fallacy here doesn't apply.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


no, it was discovered after the fact and if the koreans had protested when they should have, he would have been awarded .100. the only real question is, could hamm have score .100 more in his final event in order to compete for the gold, in my opinion, no, as he already received the highest score awarded for any event on that final event.

He would have started .10 higher, not that he would have been "awarded" .10 more after he finished his routine.

again, wrong,

he would not have been required to do the event again, they just would have taken his deductions out of 10.0 instead of 9.9.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


ironically, if Yang (the bronze medalist) been given the appropriate start point of 10.0 he would have won the meet.

what you are trying to say is that if his score was .10 higher he would have won. Saying that if he started out with a value of 10 he would have won is a logical fallicy imo, you can't say with certainty that he would have performed the routine exactly as he did with the same deductions/points if he started with a 10 instead of a 9.9.

What you can say is that if he had started with a 10 and did the routine exactly as he did with the start of 9.9, he would have won.

wrong

what the olympic committee is saying is, IF the koreans had launched the protest that day, his score would have been adjusted, so your logical fallacy here doesn't apply.

The koreans not protesting correctly or on time is another matter in itself. I don't know the complete details as to how the Koreans attempted to protest, as the article linked herein only provides a brief sentence that the committee told them to protest after the routine was over, and then it was denied to some sorts.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: TechnoKid

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


ironically, if Yang (the bronze medalist) been given the appropriate start point of 10.0 he would have won the meet.

what you are trying to say is that if his score was .10 higher he would have won. Saying that if he started out with a value of 10 he would have won is a logical fallicy imo, you can't say with certainty that he would have performed the routine exactly as he did with the same deductions/points if he started with a 10 instead of a 9.9.

What you can say is that if he had started with a 10 and did the routine exactly as he did with the start of 9.9, he would have won.

wrong

what the olympic committee is saying is, IF the koreans had launched the protest that day, his score would have been adjusted, so your logical fallacy here doesn't apply.

The koreans not protesting correctly or on time is another matter in itself. I don't know the complete details as to how the Koreans attempted to protest, as the article linked herein only provides a brief sentence that the committee told them to protest after the routine was over, and then it was denied to some sorts.

he would not have been required to do the element again, all they would have done is take the deductions out of 10.0 instead of 9.9. it has already been acknowledged that had the protest been lodged in TIME it would have been awarded to the korean.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold


he would not have been required to do the element again, all they would have done is take the deductions out of 10.0 instead of 9.9. it has already been acknowledged that had the protest been lodged in TIME it would have been awarded to the korean.

The way i understand it from the article is that the Koreans did [try to] protest either after the start value was anounced, during the routine, or other (doesn't clearly state in articel), but that they we're told to lodge an official complaint with the board after the routine was over. If in fact they did not lodge protest correctly or on time, then thats their fault.