Old Win 2003 Server to VMWare Woes

[Paperlantern]

This situation is rather unique. I wasn't sure where to put it so admins feel free to move if you feel it necessary.

I have some OLD hardware running Server 2003. When it was in "production" it was a web server, file server and print server. It is an old Thunderbird 850MHz with 768MB of RAM and a 10GB OS drive. All I want to do is virtualize the system so I can use it and access the web services it provided just locally... kind of like an archive, and then finally recycle the epically dated hardware. I replaced it because the NIC died and I didnt have another PCI NIC handy, I had an entire system that was 3 times as fast with twice as much RAM just sitting. So I moved all of its data and services to the newer, faster machine.

This thing has been out of production for a while, it is out of date and nothing works (video isnt installed and wont install correctly, the USB ports are both shot, the NIC I believe is good but it wasn't the one that was originally in it and the OS doesnt have the driver). I have a old ghost image I took of it a long time ago, and was actually only a little while before it was retired, so it is practically the same state. Tried restoring the VM on VMWare ESXi 4.1.0 by simply running the ghost bootable disc as you would on a physical box and it just blue screens after about 2 seconds of the Server 2003 splash screen. Restoring the image to a newer computer with working components simply bluescreens the machine in the same manner. Not sure if thats because the original drive was IDE and these are SATA, or if its simply the drastic hardware change, either way it wont boot. I did dig up a NIC that I must have acquired in the previous months (as mentioned above, the box now does have a working NIC), but all the drivers online seem to be fake driver packages and viruses and I dont trust any of them.I feel the only way to get this thing to work now will be to actually find or invest in a PCI NIC card that has a CD with a driver on it, or one that is available on a real manufacturer's website that i can download and burn onto a CD.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track concentrating on using the virtualization tool from VMWare and trying to get this thing on the network to implement it? Or is there some other tactic or technique that I could be using to get this thing into ESXi that I'm not aware of? Another tool I can use to take an image or something of this drive that may work? I'm about to give up.

 

[DrGreen2007]

You lost me when you said "(as mentioned above, the box now does have a working NIC), "
? does the old Tbird hardware now have a working NIC in it? or are you talking about the newer hardware?

 

[Paperlantern]

Basically, it was retired because the NIC died. I found this NIC in another older machine that I acquired and replaced the old dead NIC with this one, so it is a working NIC, but the machine wont pick it up, so it physically is good, the machine just wont install the driver for it. I can't find a trustworthy driver for it online either. So working, but not working. Sorry for the confusion there.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The Bluescreens are likely due to HAL.DLL problems, or boot drive problems (no disk-controller drivers). There are tools, like Acronis Universal Restore (I think I have that right), that will restore images to dissimilar hardware, and allow you to inject the proper drivers into the image.)

The other option is, if you can possibly perform a repair install overtop, in the VM image, such that the hardware detection from the installer is done, and installs the proper HAL and drivers for the VM software. I don't know how similar Server 2003 is compared to XP, but I know that you can do this with XP. That's how I was able to move from my Athlon XP rig with VIA chipset to a C2D rig on an 865G board.

In fact, I'm planning on doing something similar, from my Athlon XP rig, that got upgraded to a C2D on a 865G chipset, that has Win98se, W2K SP4, and XP SP2 on it. My problem is, I cannot even get my VM software to boot the Ghost bootable floppy or USB stick, in order to restore my Ghost 2003 images to the virtual HD. (I was trying to use MS's own VM software, which is SEVERELY lacking in functionality.)

 

[Chiefcrowe]

were you trying to do this with HyperV?
so, microsoft doesn't let you boot with USB in a virtual machine? that sucks! did you try putting it onto a boot cd?

The Bluescreens are likely due to HAL.DLL problems, or boot drive problems (no disk-controller drivers). There are tools, like Acronis Universal Restore (I think I have that right), that will restore images to dissimilar hardware, and allow you to inject the proper drivers into the image.)

The other option is, if you can possibly perform a repair install overtop, in the VM image, such that the hardware detection from the installer is done, and installs the proper HAL and drivers for the VM software. I don't know how similar Server 2003 is compared to XP, but I know that you can do this with XP. That's how I was able to move from my Athlon XP rig with VIA chipset to a C2D rig on an 865G board.

In fact, I'm planning on doing something similar, from my Athlon XP rig, that got upgraded to a C2D on a 865G chipset, that has Win98se, W2K SP4, and XP SP2 on it. My problem is, I cannot even get my VM software to boot the Ghost bootable floppy or USB stick, in order to restore my Ghost 2003 images to the virtual HD. (I was trying to use MS's own VM software, which is SEVERELY lacking in functionality.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

were you trying to do this with HyperV?
so, microsoft doesn't let you boot with USB in a virtual machine? that sucks! did you try putting it onto a boot cd?

No, VPC for Win7. As it turns out, the "USB support" in that product, is a total hack workaround. It doesn't emulate USB at all, which means that it cannot see a USB drive in the virtual machine's BIOS, nor can it boot off of it. It installs drivers into the Guest OS, that pass-through USB commands to the ports in the host OS. But that requires an OS to already be installed into the VM as a guest. Which, doesn't help, when I'm trying to boot *something* to load Ghost 2003 to transfer image files I have on DVD to the VM's VHD. And VPC7 doesn't support floppy emulation either, anymore. So you're screwed.

MS seems to have this habit of making shitty, unusable products. At least the crap is free.

 

[Paperlantern]

Yeah I deep sixed Hyper V for a lot of those reasons.

Currently I am going to try and get the physical box on the network. i have some options, my office has some oooold servers laying around, i'll check and see what i can come up with for drivers on the NICs that are in those, if nothing else a friend of mine has a break fix shop with a bunch of old equipment too, i'll see if i can get a workable NIC for it and then i can use the converter from VMWare and just convert the physical machine and go from there.

 

[DrGreen2007]

if you can boot the machine up, doesnt matter about the NIC being working, use the vmware converter tool to convert it to a VM.
This will install a VMware NIC, VMWare VGA and some other VMWare type devices, and it provides drivers for them.
So after its converted, it doesnt matter if the nic was realtek, 3com, intel, dlink, kmart, etc, it gets replaced.
Then you just run it on VMWare player on the W7 box, just convert it to the newest vm player option on the list.

 

[imagoon]

If you pay for support, you should be able to cold boot P2V the machine from any hardware using the VMWare converter. They don't give the cold boot portion away however (you need a support contract.)

 

[Paperlantern]

Thats the problem, I don't pay for support, so I assume I have to use the converter that is in the plugin for virtual center. As I understand it the utility runs and you point it to the physical server and it virtualizes it (in a nutshell), but of course the OS would have to have connectivity for this to work, and it doesnt.

I did find a Broadcom NIC yesterday that i found a trustworthy driver for online. I just need to get that driver onto the machine now... im thinking using a IDE hard drive hooked to a usb cable setup on my main working workstation, copy the driver to that, then install it as a slave in the server... just seems so silly to waste a CDROM for 300K file.

 

[imagoon]

Thats the problem, I don't pay for support, so I assume I have to use the converter that is in the plugin for virtual center. As I understand it the utility runs and you point it to the physical server and it virtualizes it (in a nutshell), but of course the OS would have to have connectivity for this to work, and it doesnt.

I did find a Broadcom NIC yesterday that i found a trustworthy driver for online. I just need to get that driver onto the machine now... im thinking using a IDE hard drive hooked to a usb cable setup on my main working workstation, copy the driver to that, then install it as a slave in the server... just seems so silly to waste a CDROM for 300K file.

Best $124 a year I spend.... just say'in

 

[airdata]

I was going to suggest what virtuallarry did as far as doing a repair install after ghosting to try to fix the blue screen issue.

What kind of hardware is this server?

 

[Paperlantern]

I was going to suggest what virtuallarry did as far as doing a repair install after ghosting to try to fix the blue screen issue.

What kind of hardware is this server?

I actually did try this. The server 2003 media does not find the previous install after the ghost is complete and only gives me the option of a fresh install.

Not sure which server you mean so I'll give both the server im virtualizing and the server im using as a ESXi server. Though I think you just meant the one im virtualizing, but to be safe:

Server I'm trying to virtualize
Thunderbird 850MHz
768MB PC133 RAM
10GB IDE HDD OS drive
160GB IDE HDD DATA Drive
ABIT KT7 Motherboard

Server I'm using as ESXi server
Proliant DL320 G5
Dual Core Xeon Processor @ 2.4GHz
4GB DDR2 PC2-5300E memory (More is on order to take it up to 8GB)
Two 1TB Hard drives for Datastores
ESXi installed on a internally plugged in 1GB USB Thumb stick

 

[imagoon]

I actually did try this. The server 2003 media does not find the previous install after the ghost is complete and only gives me the option of a fresh install.

Not sure which server you mean so I'll give both the server im virtualizing and the server im using as a ESXi server. Though I think you just meant the one im virtualizing, but to be safe:

Server I'm trying to virtualize
Thunderbird 850MHz
768MB PC133 RAM
10GB IDE HDD OS drive
160GB IDE HDD DATA Drive
ABIT KT7 Motherboard

Server I'm using as ESXi server
Proliant DL320 G5
Dual Core Xeon Processor @ 2.4GHz
4GB DDR2 PC2-5300E memory (More is on order to take it up to 8GB)
Two 1TB Hard drives for Datastores
ESXi installed on a internally plugged in 1GB USB Thumb stick

Go to a machine that has the VMWare tools installed. In there you will find the drivers for the virtual hardware. You need to create either a) a virtual floppy with the storage drivers on it and press F6 as the cd boots or b) use something like nlite to embed the virtual LSI drivers.

The floppy is easier than you will think right away. Use vsphere to attach a file to the virtual floppy on any virtual machine. It will give you the option to create the file on the datastore. Do so. Now go to the VM and format and then copy the files to the floppy image. Dismount the floppy file. Then in the 2003 install when it asks you to insert a floppy with the storage drivers (you hit F6 when it asks early in the load, the prompt will appear several minutes later), mount the virtual floppy with the file on the datastore. It will then load those drivers and find your vmdks (disks) and then should find the install.

 

[Paperlantern]

Go to a machine that has the VMWare tools installed. In there you will find the drivers for the virtual hardware. You need to create either a) a virtual floppy with the storage drivers on it and press F6 as the cd boots or b) use something like nlite to embed the virtual LSI drivers.

The floppy is easier than you will think right away. Use vsphere to attach a file to the virtual floppy on any virtual machine. It will give you the option to create the file on the datastore. Do so. Now go to the VM and format and then copy the files to the floppy image. Dismount the floppy file. Then in the 2003 install when it asks you to insert a floppy with the storage drivers (you hit F6 when it asks early in the load, the prompt will appear several minutes later), mount the virtual floppy with the file on the datastore. It will then load those drivers and find your vmdks (disks) and then should find the install.

What do you mean by, go to a machine that has the VMWare tools installed? You lost me there, i thought tools were for VMs only (this esxi server is empty, i do not have ANY VMs on it yet).

I actually got the NIC working in the old server and got it on the network. I installed the standalone virtualization tool and ran it. It imported the server into esxi, however i still have the same problem, it blue screens after a second or two of the Server 2003 splash screen. *facepalm*

This is really frustrating. I dont understand how even the machine that the tool virtualized blue screens, isnt the tool supposed to set up the VM in a manner that will successfuly emulate the physical machine?

 

[imagoon]

What do you mean by, go to a machine that has the VMWare tools installed? You lost me there, i thought tools were for VMs only (this esxi server is empty, i do not have ANY VMs on it yet).

I actually got the NIC working in the old server and got it on the network. I installed the standalone virtualization tool and ran it. It imported the server into esxi, however i still have the same problem, it blue screens after a second or two of the Server 2003 splash screen. *facepalm*

This is really frustrating. I dont understand how even the machine that the tool virtualized blue screens, isnt the tool supposed to set up the VM in a manner that will successfuly emulate the physical machine?

VMWare tools is an app that should be installed in all VM's on the vmware cluster. The drivers for the virtual devices are stored with it. So any server that has the VMware tools installed (make sure you are looking at the same "bitness 32/64 and the same "class" xp/2003 vs 2008/vista/7) has the drivers installed with it.

For example: My 2008R2 install has the paravirtual disk driver here:

C:\Program Files\VMware\VMware Tools\Drivers\pvscsi

I can copy those files and embed them in to the install CD if I felt the need. For 2003 if I were to log in to my 2003 servers, I could copy those 3 files to a floppy and and then use them to "F6" in to the 2003 install process.

I assume you have at least one working server at this point in vmware.

 

[Paperlantern]

I assume you have at least one working server at this point in vmware.

What do you mean by, go to a machine that has the VMWare tools installed? You lost me there, i thought tools were for VMs only (this esxi server is empty, i do not have ANY VMs on it yet).

=(

So no, I don't, my esx server is empty, this would be the first one, would it be in my best interest to create a new server that is 2003 from scratch then so I can get these files so that the install can see the volume?

If this is the case then however, wouldnt i need them to make any install? or no? I figure a scratch install would work fine.

 

[imagoon]

=(

So no, I don't, my esx server is empty, this would be the first one, would it be in my best interest to create a new server that is 2003 from scratch then so I can get these files so that the install can see the volume?

If this is the case then however, wouldnt i need them to make any install? or no? I figure a scratch install would work fine.

You need to download the current vmware tools ISO or get it off the ESX(i) install CD (match the version you are on) and then burn it to a CD / open with an ISO viewer or whatever.

Try here:
http://packages.vmware.com/tools/esx/4.1latest/windows/index.html

Make sure to match bits! (x64/i32)

 

[quikah]

pvscsi != LSI Logic adapter. They are two totally separate animals. The LSI Logic adapter doesn't need anything from tools, it uses the driver already included in W2k3. I really doubt the P2V installed a pvscsi adapter in the VM (of course I haven't used P2V in about 4 years...).

Did you try the repair install after doing the P2V?

 

[imagoon]

pvscsi != LSI Logic adapter. They are two totally separate animals. The LSI Logic adapter doesn't need anything from tools, it uses the driver already included in W2k3. I really doubt the P2V installed a pvscsi adapter in the VM (of course I haven't used P2V in about 4 years...).

Did you try the repair install after doing the P2V?

I believe I said that and "for example." Also, no 2k3 will not install with out drivers in 4.0+.

 

[Paperlantern]

Did you try the repair install after doing the P2V?

No i didnt try after the P2V, only after the ghost restore attempt. Since it was behaving the same way i had assumed it was the same problem, and since the repair wouldnt see the install after the ghost restore i didnt bother. Should I try it anyway?

I believe I said that and "for example." Also, no 2k3 will not install with out drivers in 4.0+.

Thats bumming me man, this is starting to become more of a PITA than its worth. With the time i put into this i could have built a linux box to run the web site again. Bleh.

 

[quikah]

I believe I said that and "for example." Also, no 2k3 will not install with out drivers in 4.0+.

What are you talking about? I have done it dozens of times. If it is not working for you please tell me exactly what you are using/doing (seriously, if there is something broken about this I want to know).

If you use one of the LSI logic adapters it will see the drive just fine using the windows drivers. No tools required.

If you use the VMware paravirtual adapter you need a driver.

OP, go ahead and try the repair install again, whats the worst that could happen? Check the virtual hardware and make sure LSI Logic is the adapter type. what exactly is the STOP error code on the blue screen?

 

[Paperlantern]

What are you talking about? I have done it dozens of times. If it is not working for you please tell me exactly what you are using/doing (seriously, if there is something broken about this I want to know).

If you use one of the LSI logic adapters it will see the drive just fine using the windows drivers. No tools required.

If you use the VMware paravirtual adapter you need a driver.

OP, go ahead and try the repair install again, whats the worst that could happen? Check the virtual hardware and make sure LSI Logic is the adapter type. what exactly is the STOP error code on the blue screen?

Okay, I will try it again today. Maybe at lunch if I get time... The other thing is the media i'm using isn't the same media I used to install the OLD server, that is long since lost. So i'm wondering if the reason it doesn't see the install to repair is because its a different version. I could try booting to this media in the physical server and do a mock repair install see if it sees it as well. It may not be a driver at all. Just version conflict.

 

[imagoon]

What are you talking about? I have done it dozens of times. If it is not working for you please tell me exactly what you are using/doing (seriously, if there is something broken about this I want to know).

If you use one of the LSI logic adapters it will see the drive just fine using the windows drivers. No tools required.

If you use the VMware paravirtual adapter you need a driver.

OP, go ahead and try the repair install again, whats the worst that could happen? Check the virtual hardware and make sure LSI Logic is the adapter type. what exactly is the STOP error code on the blue screen?

Just booted a 2003 CD on 4.1u1, LSI storage 40gb VMDK "no storage devices found." Someone obviously embedded the driver in to your install image.

You seem very hung up that I used the pvscsi driver in my example. I am quite aware that you need a driver for pvscsi.

The whole point of this dialog is showing PaperLantern where to get the storage drivers so he can F6 them in during the 2003 install and actually run the repair install.

 

[imagoon]

So I mucked around with the install CD. Seems it will boot fine and install on LSI Parallel on VMX version 4 but not 7. I went and dug out a "2003R2 server with Service Pack 2" CD and mapped the CDROM locally to it and that one did find storage on VMX version 7. Maybe my .ISO is old. Doesn't matter that much anymore since we are 2008R2 now.