Olbermann: Mr. President, You're a Fascist!

[NoStateofMind]

Keith Olbermann's Special Comment

Some excerpts:

Mark Klein a former AT&T employee claimed the government kept information on all transactions and websites in a secure place, Room 641A.

Richard Clark said : "Let me be clear: our ability to track and monitor terrorists overseas would not cease should the Protect America Act expire. If this were true, the president would not threaten to terminate any temporary extension with his veto pen. All surveillance currently occurring would continue even after the legislative provisions lapsed because authorizations issued under the act are in effect up to a year."

Senator Kennedy : "The president has said that American lives will be sacrificed if Congress does not change FISA. But he has also said that he will veto any FISA bill that does not grant retroactive immunity. No immunity, no FISA bill. So if we take the President at his word, he's willing to let Americans die to protect the phone companies."

Olbermann clearly trounces Bush in this segment. Bush is not wanting to protect the people, just the corporations. Sadly, there are still some out there who will deny that Bush is the worst president in U.S. history, but fortunately for the rest of us, Bush is only making it easier for people to prove it

EDIT: This is ridiculous.

House targets Bush aides; GOP stages walkout

This part floors me and I don't know what to say other than it sure looks like he wants to be a dictator. Maybe North Korea will take him then.

President Bush has invoked a blanket executive privilege covering the testimony of all former and current White House officials and documents subpoenaed by Congress on the controversial firings.

The White House argues that the contempt-of-Congress laws do not apply to the president or any officials who invoke executive privilege, and that forcing the aides to testify would violate the Constitution's separation of powers.

If that doesn't make you wanna just fall off your chair, nothing will.

 

[Moonbeam]

You can't hold corporate leaders accountable when they violate your rights because our rights are protecting terrorists and have to be abandoned. You can't protect freedom by having freedom. Only by violating our rights can the terrorists be caught. We must protect those who would violate our rights or we will lose our freedom. Why is this so hare to see. Thank God bush has clear vision.

 

[Jhhnn]

Immunity for the Telcos basically means immunity for the Admin...

Any Questions?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Why is it that people complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Immunity for the Telcos basically means immunity for the Admin...

Any Questions?

Sorry, questions are not allowed.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

You don't need a bulldozer to dig a post hole.

Why is it people think that the higher up the food chain you get, the less accountability theyere should be? If anything public servants need to be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

You don't need a bulldozer to dig a post hole.

Why is it people think that the higher up the food chain you get, the less accountability theyere should be? If anything public servants need to be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.

Hold them to a higher standard - they should be!

But provide them the tools that are needed to do the job that you require of them.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

Because they like to b1tch and can do so with big mouths because they're not responsible for the results when things go bad. Even better in this case, it's a b1tch agains "Bush&Co." so it doubles as a rant.

It doesn't matter that no one or virtually no one has been in reality affected by any of these actions, and they've been done purely for our benefit...so it's not like the Fed. is taking away driving privaleges or whatnot.

EDIT: I think it's safe to say now what Olbermann's/MSNBC's strategery is to try and make a climb up his/their ratings...it's sorta like Howard Stern, but in a news format...

Chuck

 

[Pabster]

Olbermann :thumbsdown:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Olbermann :thumbsdown:

Olbermann tells it like it is when he talks about Bush and this admin.

 

[nageov3t]

Olbermann makes Bill O'Reily look fair and balanced.

 

[kage69]

Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

Don't generalize - it's all about this government. People have learned to trust very little of what they say and do. I can't blame anyone for calling a spade a spade here. This government did jack shit after being informed AQ was determined to attack on US soil. This government took it's eye off the ball in Afghanistan and lied it's way into an elective invasion which fulfilled Bib Laden's wish of drawing us into a poor Arab nation, and now this government is playing political games with American lives (again!)


This admin hardly has a track record that indicates less accountability is warranted, I usually try to avoid speaking in absolutes, but anyone thinking contrary is a fucking idiot.


In a sea of shills and pundits, it's nice to see someone like Olbermann stand out and speak what everyone is beginning to understand. :thumbsup:

God the Repubs are looking horrible these days...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: kage69

Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

Don't generalize - it's all about this government. People have learned to trust very little of what they say and do. I can't blame anyone for calling a spade a spade here. This government did jack shit after being informed AQ was determined to attack on US soil. This government took it's eye off the ball in Afghanistan and lied it's way into an elective invasion which fulfilled Bib Laden's wish of drawing us into a poor Arab nation, and now this government is playing political games with American lives (again!)


This admin hardly has a track record that indicates less accountability is warranted, I usually try to avoid speaking in absolutes, but anyone thinking contrary is a fucking idiot.


In a sea of shills and pundits, it's nice to see someone like Olbermann stand out and speak what everyone is beginning to understand. :thumbsup:

God the Repubs are looking horrible these days...

So when the democrats do the same things will keith olberman and you be at the front of the line complaining?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

You don't need a bulldozer to dig a post hole.

Why is it people think that the higher up the food chain you get, the less accountability theyere should be? If anything public servants need to be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.

Hold them to a higher standard - they should be!

But provide them the tools that are needed to do the job that you require of them.

The ability to break the law without accountability is NOT a higher standard OR a tool they should have.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: kage69

Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

Don't generalize - it's all about this government. People have learned to trust very little of what they say and do. I can't blame anyone for calling a spade a spade here. This government did jack shit after being informed AQ was determined to attack on US soil. This government took it's eye off the ball in Afghanistan and lied it's way into an elective invasion which fulfilled Bib Laden's wish of drawing us into a poor Arab nation, and now this government is playing political games with American lives (again!)


This admin hardly has a track record that indicates less accountability is warranted, I usually try to avoid speaking in absolutes, but anyone thinking contrary is a fucking idiot.


In a sea of shills and pundits, it's nice to see someone like Olbermann stand out and speak what everyone is beginning to understand. :thumbsup:

God the Repubs are looking horrible these days...

This government did jack shit after being informed AQ was determined to attack on US soil.

Funny that most of the planing and training was under the previous watch.
Where were the specifics on when/where and how? NO-ONE has every shown/produced that info.
20/20 hindsight is a great way of passing the buck.

I will agree that this government (not just the administration) fouled up Afganastan (by honoring other countries boundaries <sarcasm>) and screwed up Iraq by joining the badwagon and not looking past day 1.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Olbermann makes Bill O'Reily look fair and balanced.

Ah, but KO doesn't claim to be fair and balanced, unlike papa bear. So at least he isn't a hypocrite, right?

Anyway, this was one of the few KO rants I rather enjoyed, mostly because the admin's logic is really weak. No FISA, people die. No telco immunity, I veto FISA. So no telco immunity, I let people die. Again, par.

EagleKeeper: no one is arguing against the tools, they merely want some form of accountaibility/oversight. It has been proven since time immemorial that if you give the government wide powers, it will abuse them. That said, eavesdropping on phone calls of 300 million americans isn't really feasable so the govt will by necessity have to focus on those more likely to or who have suspicion/evidence against them that they are engaging in nefarious communications.

As Bill Maher put it, it's kinda like hot teachers having sex with their students. I know it's wrong, but it doesn't really bother me all that much

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: loki8481
Olbermann makes Bill O'Reily look fair and balanced.

Ah, but KO doesn't claim to be fair and balanced, unlike papa bear. So at least he isn't a hypocrite, right?

Anyway, this was one of the few KO rants I rather enjoyed, mostly because the admin's logic is really weak. No FISA, people die. No telco immunity, I veto FISA. So no telco immunity, I let people die. Again, par.

So if Congress sends Bush FISA without Telco immunity you'll be holding them to the same standard right? Because that's what Congress is saying...

EagleKeeper: no one is arguing against the tools, they merely want some form of accountaibility/oversight. It has been proven since time immemorial that if you give the government wide powers, it will abuse them. That said, eavesdropping on phone calls of 300 million americans isn't really feasable so the govt will by necessity have to focus on those more likely to or who have suspicion/evidence against them that they are engaging in nefarious communications.

As Bill Maher put it, it's kinda like hot teachers having sex with their students. I know it's wrong, but it doesn't really bother me all that much

No, what the BDS'ers want is to whine and b1tch so they can feel important and get meaningless digs in on "Bush&Co", when in the grand scheme of things, "violating" Joe Schmoe's rights by temporairly caching his phone conversation when he's talking to someone in UAE or maybe talking with a "person of interest" means Joe Schmoe will not even know his rights are being "violated". Then, when nothing happens and Joe Schmoe never even knew, and the cache is cleared (because just how TF would anyone - including our Fed. - have the space to store everyone's conversations), life goes on.

These same people are the ones that complain that "Bush&Co" did nothing when warned about 9/11 however the convenient point they overlook is that their beloved predecessor cut back intelligence so as to make it even more impossible that we'd have anyway of knowing some minorly important things....like how, where, and when....just some small details there you'd need to know to be able to tell the 300 million Americans why you're pre-emptively going to cut into their daily lives and make it "harder" on them.

People F'ing want it All, yet they don't care how that All actually happens. Sorta like our little housing crisis...

Chuck

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: loki8481
Olbermann makes Bill O'Reily look fair and balanced.

Ah, but KO doesn't claim to be fair and balanced, unlike papa bear. So at least he isn't a hypocrite, right?

I just don't understand why anyone would willingly listen to that kind of crap, whether it's coming from the left or right..

but maybe liberals like me are the reason Air America failed

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Ah, but KO doesn't claim to be fair and balanced, unlike papa bear. So at least he isn't a hypocrite, right?

Anyway, this was one of the few KO rants I rather enjoyed, mostly because the admin's logic is really weak. No FISA, people die. No telco immunity, I veto FISA. So no telco immunity, I let people die. Again, par.

So if Congress sends Bush FISA without Telco immunity you'll be holding them to the same standard right? Because that's what Congress is saying...

Wrong. Congress is saying, you need FISA to save lives? Here's FISA. What if Bush said, "give me FISA and 50 Billion more for Iraq or I'll veto" Congress should give him anything at all that he wants attached to FISA b/c he says he'll veto it otherwise? Nope.

EagleKeeper: no one is arguing against the tools, they merely want some form of accountaibility/oversight. It has been proven since time immemorial that if you give the government wide powers, it will abuse them. That said, eavesdropping on phone calls of 300 million americans isn't really feasable so the govt will by necessity have to focus on those more likely to or who have suspicion/evidence against them that they are engaging in nefarious communications.

As Bill Maher put it, it's kinda like hot teachers having sex with their students. I know it's wrong, but it doesn't really bother me all that much

No, what the BDS'ers want is to whine and b1tch so they can feel important and get meaningless digs in on "Bush&Co", when in the grand scheme of things, "violating" Joe Schmoe's rights by temporairly caching his phone conversation when he's talking to someone in UAE or maybe talking with a "person of interest" means Joe Schmoe will not even know his rights are being "violated". Then, when nothing happens and Joe Schmoe never even knew, and the cache is cleared (because just how TF would anyone - including our Fed. - have the space to store everyone's conversations), life goes on.

These same people are the ones that complain that "Bush&Co" did nothing when warned about 9/11 however the convenient point they overlook is that their beloved predecessor cut back intelligence so as to make it even more impossible that we'd have anyway of knowing some minorly important things....like how, where, and when....just some small details there you'd need to know to be able to tell the 300 million Americans why you're pre-emptively going to cut into their daily lives and make it "harder" on them.

People F'ing want it All, yet they don't care how that All actually happens. Sorta like our little housing crisis...

Chuck

[/quote]

You'll have to drop the BDS argument. There's wide opposition to telco immunity and warrantless tapping. http://www.upi.com/Internation...bush_wiretap_law/6209/

Good faith opposition has been raised to a program of questionable legality, yet you attack the questioners as politically motivated. Some are, no doubt, but I have nothing to gain by raising my doubts about the admin. I'm not running for office, and this admin has squandered any trust it ever had. If you continue to believe them, you're the one with some sort of reverse BDS.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Olbermann makes Bill O'Reily look fair and balanced.

QFT. :thumbsup:

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You can't hold corporate leaders accountable when they violate your rights because our rights are protecting terrorists and have to be abandoned. You can't protect freedom by having freedom. Only by violating our rights can the terrorists be caught. We must protect those who would violate our rights or we will lose our freedom. Why is this so hare to see. Thank God bush has clear vision.

:laugh: Sarcasm meter pegged!

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

People, this isn't a democrat vs republican issue. They are both professional politicians, two sides of the same coin.

This is a "people" vs "government" issue. Or it's a "break the law" issue.

Why does anyone care what party is involved? Do Dems or Repubs somehow get special treatment from you? Your favored party can break the law, but the other party can't?

The only question you need to answer is "Do you mind that the law is being broken?" Party affiliation has NOTHING to do with this.

Do you want your gov't to illegally spy on everyone, and now they have been caught, do you want to give a "get out of jail/trial" free card to everyone?

When a murderer gets arrested and goes to trial, I don't see anyone asking what political party the murderer is. Or what party the judge is. Why does it matter now?

So, does breaking the law matter to you, or not?

 

[kage69]

So when the democrats do the same things will keith olberman and you be at the front of the line complaining?

Way to dodge the meat of the issue, but yes, I would. I can't speak for Mr. Olbermann though.

Funny that most of the planing and training was under the previous watch.

Funny you think that somehow a contingency plan equals the charge this admin lead to invade Iraq.

Where were the specifics on when/where and how? NO-ONE has every shown/produced that info.

Ah, so a bit of uncertainty warrants doing absolutely nothing, well that's just fantastic. Great expectations you have there. Clarke's exiting memo was not the only warning, someone of your interests should know perfectly well we were aware that 9/11 style attacks were possible, which is why we conducted exercises for those possibilities.

20/20 hindsight is a great way of passing the buck.

Like you just attempted in your first sentence? What good is this admin if they can't even learn from said hindsight? Wait, since when do you guys even care about "the buck," let alone where it finally resides?

I will agree that this government (not just the administration) fouled up Afganastan (by honoring other countries boundaries <sarcasm> and screwed up Iraq by joining the badwagon and not looking past day 1.

This admin is to blame, you're not fooling anyone. The Pentagon did not lead the way in Iraq and you know it, and the White House is responsible for all "diplomatic considerations" in that theater. But at least you're not trying to paint Afghanistan in some rosy portrait. :thumbsup:

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: kage69

Why is it that poeple complain that the government should have known, but when the tools are in place, they complain about the tools?

Don't generalize - it's all about this government. People have learned to trust very little of what they say and do. I can't blame anyone for calling a spade a spade here. This government did jack shit after being informed AQ was determined to attack on US soil. This government took it's eye off the ball in Afghanistan and lied it's way into an elective invasion which fulfilled Bib Laden's wish of drawing us into a poor Arab nation, and now this government is playing political games with American lives (again!)


This admin hardly has a track record that indicates less accountability is warranted, I usually try to avoid speaking in absolutes, but anyone thinking contrary is a fucking idiot.


In a sea of shills and pundits, it's nice to see someone like Olbermann stand out and speak what everyone is beginning to understand. :thumbsup:

God the Repubs are looking horrible these days...

So when the democrats do the same things will keith olberman and you be at the front of the line complaining?

Can I borrow your crystal ball? The lotto is $37 million here in FL.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

People, this isn't a democrat vs republican issue. They are both professional politicians, two sides of the same coin.

This is a "people" vs "government" issue. Or it's a "break the law" issue.

Why does anyone care what party is involved? Do Dems or Repubs somehow get special treatment from you? Your favored party can break the law, but the other party can't?

The only question you need to answer is "Do you mind that the law is being broken?" Party affiliation has NOTHING to do with this.

Do you want your gov't to illegally spy on everyone, and now they have been caught, do you want to give a "get out of jail/trial" free card to everyone?

When a murderer gets arrested and goes to trial, I don't see anyone asking what political party the murderer is. Or what party the judge is. Why does it matter now?

So, does breaking the law matter to you, or not?

/thread

Very well put.