Oklahoma's anti-abortion bill

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2006
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/27/oklahoma.abortion/index.html?iref=allsearch

Oklahoma Senate overrides governor's vetoes to pass abortion laws
By the CNN Wire Staff
April 27, 2010 5:14 p.m. EDT
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* One law requires ultrasound, listening to description of what it shows before an abortion
* Center for Reproductive Rights says it had filed a lawsuit challenging the new law
* Other law protects doctors who withhold data or give inaccurate information about pregnancies
* Laws' critics cite privacy, negligence issues; backers say the people have spoken

(CNN) -- The Oklahoma Senate voted Tuesday to override the governor's vetoes and pass two abortion-related laws.

One law requires women to undergo an ultrasound examination and listen to a description of what it shows before getting an abortion.

Senate President Pro Tempore Glenn Coffee, a Republican, said Tuesday's vote shows that lawmakers listened to Oklahoma's residents and "made a bold statement in support of the sanctity of life." But Democratic Gov. Brad Henry has called the legislation "an unconstitutional attempt by the Oklahoma legislature to insert government into the private lives and decisions of its citizens."

Henry vetoed the bill and another abortion-related measure Friday, but the state House on Monday overwhelmingly voted to override both vetoes, with House Speaker Chris Benge, a Republican, lauding his colleagues for "moving quickly." The Senate's 36-12 vote Tuesday was the final step required to make the bills laws.

"Those who rallied behind this cause reflected the core values of Oklahoma citizens, and I applaud my colleagues in providing more safeguards for the life of the unborn," Coffee said.

Henry said he was disappointed by Tuesday's vote. "It signals the beginning of another costly and possibly futile legal battle for the state of Oklahoma. Both laws will be challenged and, in all likelihood, overturned by the courts as unconstitutional," he said. "I fear this entire exercise will ultimately be a waste of taxpayers' time and money."

In a statement issued after his vetoes Friday, he sharply criticized the laws.

"State policymakers should never mandate that a citizen be forced to undergo any medical procedure against his or her will, especially when such a procedure could cause physical or mental trauma," Henry said. "To do so amounts to an unconstitutional invasion of privacy."

He said one of the flaws of the ultrasound bill is that it lacks an exemption for rape and incest victims.

Henry vetoed similar legislation in 2008. His veto was overridden. The State Supreme Court struck down the legislation because it contained multiple subjects, a violation of the state Constitution requiring measures to deal with a single subject, Senate spokeswoman Malia Bennett said.

"Politicians have no business making medical decisions. When they do, it seriously undermines doctors' ability to give patients the best medical care and does absolutely nothing to improve the health of patients," she said.

The governor says the measure is unconstitutional because it puts "government into the private lives and decisions of its citizens." He said opponents are prepared to challenge the measure again.

"Because a similar provision of law has already been struck down by the courts, this legislation will be challenged again, resulting in a costly and potentially futile legal battle for the state," he said.

The Center for Reproductive Rights said Tuesday that it had filed a lawsuit challenging the new law. Stephanie Toti, a staff attorney for the center, said the law is "clearly unconstitutional" and "detrimental to women."

Coffee said challenging the new laws in court would go against what Oklahoma residents want.

"The voice of the people has spoken, twice now this session in the Senate and twice in the House, and I sincerely hope those who would reverse the people's voice would think twice before acting," he said.

The other measure approved by legislators Tuesday prohibits pregnant women and their families from seeking legal damages if physicians "knowingly and negligently" withhold key information or provide inaccurate information about their pregnancies.

Henry, in opposing the bill, said it would be "unconscionable to grant a physician legal protection to mislead or misinform a pregnant woman in an effort to impose his or her personal beliefs on his patient."

Such an issue would be particularly relevant to fetuses with disabilities.

"By prohibiting recovery of damages in wrongful birth and life malpractice actions, the legislation would allow unscrupulous, reckless or negligent physicians to knowingly withhold information or negligently provide inaccurate information to pregnant women without facing the potential of legal consequences," the governor said.

The House voted to override the veto of the ultrasound bill by a vote of 81 to 14, well above the three-fourths majority required. State Rep. Lisa Billy, a Republican, said the bill "does nothing more than give women as much information as possible before they make the life-altering decision to have an abortion."

"I don't want a single woman to go through the lifelong torture of having an abortion without having all the relevant information," Billy said.

The House voted 84 to 12 to override the veto of the legal damages prohibition. State Rep. Dan Sullivan, a Republican, said the bill "simply states that a doctor cannot be sued based on the opinion after birth that a child would have been better off if he or she had been aborted."

"A bipartisan coalition of members supported this bill the first time, and I am pleased they did again today," Sullivan said.

Benge, the House speaker, said, "We must move to stop the degradation of human life seen in recent years and stand up for those who cannot defend themselves."

I'd be surprised if this passes legal muster. As opponents have pointed out, it mandates a medical procedure for its citizens, makes no exception for traumatized rape or incest victims, and also shields doctors from failing to disclose all relevant information about someone's pregnancy (ostensibly about abortion, but could conceivably include info such as a life-threatening condition for the mother if the doctor is anti-abortion and thinks that the mother may terminate pregnancy based on said condition).

Despite my mixed feelings on abortion, I believe this to be a deeply intrusive legislative act, and have serious qualms about granting doctors immunity if they fail to give a pregnant patient all relevant information to make an informed decision.
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/27/oklahoma.abortion/index.html?iref=allsearch



I'd be surprised if this passes legal muster. As opponents have pointed out, it mandates a medical procedure for its citizens, makes no exception for traumatized rape or incest victims, and also shields doctors from failing to disclose all relevant information about someone's pregnancy (ostensibly about abortion, but could conceivably include info such as a life-threatening condition for the mother if the doctor is anti-abortion and thinks that the mother may terminate pregnancy based on said condition).

Despite my mixed feelings on abortion, I believe this to be a deeply intrusive legislative act, and have serious qualms about granting doctors immunity if they fail to give a pregnant patient all relevant information to make an informed decision.

I have been burned twice recently by trusting news outlets, and at least a few parts of this article sound like they are not accurate reporting. If the law does what the article says it does, it is garbage. But, how can a law protect a doctor from liability if he "knowingly and negligently" withholds information from a patient.
 
Aug 23, 2000
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Oh GOD I hope they get sued and loose, because if thye do the whole Obama Health Care Bill can be challanged and ruled un-Constitutional.
The bolded part is the irony. The people that don't want the government to limit a persons medical choices are the people that want to force government health care plans on people.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
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Im not reading where abortion can be withheld...

Title: Oklahoma's anti-abortion bill 404 anti not found.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
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Oh GOD I hope they get sued and loose, because if thye do the whole Obama Health Care Bill can be challanged and ruled un-Constitutional.
The bolded part is the irony. The people that don't want the government to limit a persons medical choices are the people that want to force government health care plans on people.

Ironic isn't it?

Im not reading where abortion can be withheld...

Title: Oklahoma's anti-abortion bill 404 anti not found.

I guess The claim is that it is an end run around making it outright illegal by making the mother realize she is killing a baby.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
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Im not reading where abortion can be withheld...

Title: Oklahoma's anti-abortion bill 404 anti not found.

Oh come on. The bills that were passed are designed to prevent abortions, and are therefore, say it with me, anti-abortion!

How hard was that?

It makes me sad that the people of Oklahoma are going to waste a ton of money AGAIN on lawsuits against the bill that is clearly unconstitutional.

How much you want to bet after the laws are ruled unconstitutional the yokels in the Oklahoma legislature pass another bill of the same vein. :(
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Oh come on. The bills that were passed are designed to prevent abortions, and are therefore, say it with me, anti-abortion!

How hard was that?

It makes me sad that the people of Oklahoma are going to waste a ton of money AGAIN on lawsuits against the bill that is clearly unconstitutional.

How much you want to bet after the laws are ruled unconstitutional the yokels in the Oklahoma legislature pass another bill of the same vein. :(

How exactly does it violate the Constitution?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
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Oh come on. The bills that were passed are designed to prevent abortions, and are therefore, say it with me, anti-abortion!

How hard was that?

It makes me sad that the people of Oklahoma are going to waste a ton of money AGAIN on lawsuits against the bill that is clearly unconstitutional.

How much you want to bet after the laws are ruled unconstitutional the yokels in the Oklahoma legislature pass another bill of the same vein. :(

*shrug* OK. I dont have a problem with constitutional bills. If this doesnt pass the muster, then get it out. I dont have a dog in this fight, sooooo
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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Abortion is a state's right's issue...well it should be anyway. Abortion is not one of Congress' enumerated powers.
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
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Abortion is a state's right's issue...well it should be anyway. Abortion is not one of Congress' enumerated powers.

Text.

Has nothing to do with Congress. Any law banning abortions is unconstitutional*.

*With exceptions as stated. This bill is just another waste of money and election-year pandering on the part of the grand ol' party.
 
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TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
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Some of you are blind.

You can't attempt to force women into potentially traumatic positions to fuel your political agenda.

That is just fucked up, and if you can't see why that is wrong, I don't think anything can be done for you.
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,044
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Which this bill doesnt do.

No, it only requires women basically get humiliated and insulted before going through an already agonizingly emotionally painful procedure. I don't understand all this Republican fascination with big government pushing religious agendas. Let a woman do whatever she damn well pleases with her own body.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
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Some of you are blind.

You can't attempt to force women into potentially traumatic positions to fuel your political agenda.

That is just fucked up, and if you can't see why that is wrong, I don't think anything can be done for you.

I would tend to agree; somehow causing emotional distress to motivate what you perceive as desired behaviour (ie not having abortion) doesn't seem right.

It's akin to showing autopsy of someone creamed by drunk driver to motive people to drive sober.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
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I have no problem with anti-abortion as long as the state clearly explains that they'll accept an infinite number of adoptions.

I have a half brother who's about 15 years older than me and he was put up for adoption. He's a good guy with a good job, so I have complete faith in the adoption system :)


It's akin to showing autopsy of someone creamed by drunk driver to motive people to drive sober.
Driver training in Canada is like this. Not like a video autopsy, but photos of a scene where a person was hit by a drunk driver. Blood everywhere. it's similar to those fucked up emails I get from random ex-coworkers. Last one I got was "let me finish this text message lol" and it was a picture of a guy who was cut in half when he crashed his car into a semi D:
 
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umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Text.

Has nothing to do with Congress. Any law banning abortions is unconstitutional*.

*With exceptions as stated. This bill is just another waste of money and election-year pandering on the part of the grand ol' party.

Shh, the neocon fanbois are having fun thinking their State(s) can override federal mandates/laws. Let them have their fun. They'll realize soon enough that reality is a bitch.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
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Shh, the neocon fanbois are having fun thinking their State can override federal mandates/laws. Let them have their fun. They'll realize soon enough that reality is a bitch.

hey umbrella, I'm well aware of Roe V Wade. I just added my opinion that I feel there should be no Roe V Wade and that states should have the right to decide whether or not they want abortion as I feel this issue is not in the Constitution.

BTW, I am Pro-choice, so labels you are flinging at me are not going to stick on this one.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Which this bill doesnt do.

Ban was a poor choice of words on his part. However, the law is likely unconstitutional. The SCOTUS has ruled that there is a Constitutional right to an abortion which the government cannot interfere with. The state cannot then get around that by saying, fine, we won't ban it, we'll just require those seeking abortions to do something they may find unpleasant or objectionable, and deny them the abortion if they refuse to do it. How many other conditions can they impose? Make them stand on their heads? Do bad karoeke in the public square? It is generally unconstitutional to interfere with the exercise of a given right in any significant or material way, even if there is no outright ban.

- wolf
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
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Ban was a poor choice of words on his part. However, the law is likely unconstitutional. The SCOTUS has ruled that there is a Constitutional right to an abortion which the government cannot interfere with. The state cannot then get around that by saying, fine, we won't ban it, we'll just require those seeking abortions to do something they may find unpleasant or objectionable, and deny them the abortion if they refuse to do it. How many other conditions can they impose? Make them stand on their heads? Do bad karoeke in the public square? It is generally unconstitutional to interfere with the exercise of a given right in any significant or material way, even if there is no outright ban.

- wolf

BAM, Lawyered!
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Ban was a poor choice of words on his part. However, the law is likely unconstitutional. The SCOTUS has ruled that there is a Constitutional right to an abortion which the government cannot interfere with. The state cannot then get around that by saying, fine, we won't ban it, we'll just require those seeking abortions to do something they may find unpleasant or objectionable, and deny them the abortion if they refuse to do it. How many other conditions can they impose? Make them stand on their heads? Do bad karoeke in the public square? It is generally unconstitutional to interfere with the exercise of a given right in any significant or material way, even if there is no outright ban.

- wolf

Sounds reasonable :)