Ok Windows users, convince me :)

[n0cmonkey]

Convince me Windows is the best choice. I dont game, so dont bother with that silly argument. I have been looking at jobs and learning what other people do and most admins have to deal with some Windows systems. So I am considering converting my Linux machine to a Windows machine. But I want some good responses about how Windows is technically better. On OpenBSD I: host a site, run an email server, run an internal dns server, have shell accounts for friends, and remotely administer the machine over OpenSSH. I have used my Linux machine (which is sick right now because of bad hardware ) as a desktop. I can run the X applications on the OpenBSD machine remotely. For all of these features I pay *drum roll* $40! Why do I pay that much?! Because I like having the official OpenBSD cds.

Now please, no flaming (I have to say this or a mod might see it, think its nothing but flame bait and delete it). Lets get some real information going through here. Im trying to figure out what to use for my desktop, and some of this information may help, not to mention my server stuff.

 

[TheWart]

Dude, why are you even considering going over to the Dark Side? In REAL businesses, they use a Unix variant (okay, I have no real proof, other than a lot of companys seem to be moving towards Unix b/c the new .NET is going to cost $$$)

Also, if you dont game, there is absolutely NO reason IMO to make the switch (I dual boot)

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< Dude, why are you even considering going over to the Dark Side? In REAL businesses, they use a Unix variant (okay, I have no real proof, other than a lot of companys seem to be moving towards Unix b/c the new .NET is going to cost $$$) >>



From everything I have seen, there are fewer 100% UNIX-like companies than there are companies that have a hodge podge of systems on their networks. Extra knowledge in Windows wont hurt when I start looking for a new job.



<< Also, if you dont game, there is absolutely NO reason IMO to make the switch (I dual boot) >>



I agree with you, but I want to see if anyone can give me *GOOD* *LEGITIMATE* reasons to make the switch. Of course, it wont be a 100% switch over, so dont worry too much

 

[Sunner]

It's good to know Windows when applying for some jobs.

Thats about the best reason I can think of.

 

[Hector13]

In case you ever get a wireless mouse you can be sure it will work!

More seriously (not really), you can get some half ass implementations of perl or something like cygwin. Also, you can get builds of apache for windows (amd tomcat if you run any servlets).
In all reality though, you wont get by without spending a lot of money (if you were doing this for a real business). If you just want to play around with windows and are okay with trial versions, you can set up a decent web/database server. All you need is a legitimate copy of win 2k or NT with IIS. You can then try out visual studio/interdev for doing some ASP stuff (like java servlets but crappier) or get a demo version of cold fusion (what this site uses).
You can then get a trial version of MS SQL Server, which has a pretty slick interface (there is nothing remotely close to Enterprise Manager for unix, nothing free anyway). With this you can set up some databases to play with (as long as you don't need the raw power of something like oracle).

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

what are you aiming to learn? basic stuff or advanced stuff? (networking, IIS (gasp), uh....what else complex is there in windows? )

 

[manly]

I'm not sure anyone could make a compelling argument that Windows is "technically better" than the alternatives we're speaking of.

Some reasons to use Windows:

Peripherals/Device drivers
3rd party software
MS Office (if you need true document interop)
Software development (if you want a large prospective user base)

Really, all the reasons I listed are obvious results of Windows monopoly status.

If it's just a desktop system, then running Windows doesn't add much from a professional skills standpoint. Everyone and their grandma uses Windows; there's not much to prove by using it day to day. Sure, there are a few gurus, but most people use it just as a tool. You don't need to use it often to know how to use it. And if you're a geek with network OS experience, you can administrate Windows easily.

Now if you want to add job skills, then domain networking and all that crud might suit you. Personally, I prefer best-of-breed rather than monopoly-imposed solutions.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< Now if you want to add job skills, then domain networking and all that crud might suit you. >>



Thats the plan. Setup an active directory domain and figure out WTF Im doing

 

[Soybomb]

I consider knowing windows just as important and use it as well as linux. You and I seem to both interested in some of the same things, network administration, system administration, security, etc. How many windows jobs vs unix jobs do you come across? I know here its alot more windows jobs. Alot of major businesses may be running 'nix, but if you're still just breaking into the field like myself, knowing windows might be what you need to gain entry.

Not to mention if you're a windows admin or windows security guy, you've got job security its kinda like being toilet paper, they've gotta have you to clean up the mess (man...i just couldnt help it, i'm sorry)

 

[DaHitman]

<< its kinda like being toilet paper, they've gotta have you to clean up the mess (man...i just couldnt help it, i'm sorry) >>




Only problem is... Windows sh!t stinks MUCH MORE, Unix sh!t inst all that smelly..

Not to mention the Windows sh!t never seems to wash off, and stays on you even after you go home for the day.

 

[stirling]

Well, it's already been said...
I can't give you any "technically superior" arguments.
The only reason to mess with it at all is to broaden your range of skills.
AD, IIS, smtp, ftp, TS, and maybe some common apps like office,
'cause you're right - most places are heterogeneous.

 

[SinNisTeR]

photoshop/adobe items? multimedia perspective.. thats the only side i see to it. but if all you do is server type things. then.. the answer to:

<< but I want to see if anyone can give me *GOOD* *LEGITIMATE* reasons >>

is there isnt.

 

[CplHicks]

As other people have said the best reason to know Windows is simply because of its popularity. If you're planning on working for a software development company, I'd guess that around 90% of them will require you to know Visual Studio. A lot of companies use MS Exchange (for better or for worse) for corporate e-mail.

I don't think anybody could convince someone else that Windows (or any other OS for that matter) is the "best choice". It all depends on the needs of the company you're going to work for. If you're planning on working for any company that's employing a lot of "average" computer users, they're going to be using Windows desktops and interacting with Windows servers.

Anyway, my philosophy is to learn all you can about everything out there, that way you cover your ass no matter what the situation is. After all, can you come up with a real good reason why not to learn Windows?

 

[Phiberoptix]

<< On OpenBSD I: host a site, run an email server, run an internal dns server, have shell accounts for friends, and remotely administer the machine over OpenSSH. I have used my Linux machine (which is sick right now because of bad hardware ) as a desktop. I can run the X applications on the OpenBSD machine remotely. >>



windows isn't really "better" in any of those, but I guess it's good to learn the same stuff that u do with BSD on Windows.

for example, to have the same "feature" like an X session running over OpenSSH==> in Windows you would have to download OpenSSH for windows (which is OpenSSH running over Cygwin, which is basically a Unix environment on windows) from www.networksimplicity.com + VNC.

If you find a job that requires that you administer Unix and Windows boxes remotely (not that unusual), now you're in

 

[TheOmegaCode]

Why to use windows... It's easy... that's about it...
Get a few boxes, set one up as a PDC, then get another, set it up as a BDC, get another box, log it onto the PDC, down the PDC, and make sure the BDC gets promoted to the PDC.. Also, get IIS working to setup an FTP server, a WebServer, get some Corporate AntiVirus working... Get to know Active Directory, and that's about it...
Oh yeah, DNS, Firewalls, Wins server, Proxy, NAT, blah blah blah...

 

[rudder]

Unix - obviously more stable and robust. You just need a good sys admin to set things up and leave it alone.

Windows - we all know its shortcomings versus Unix. Easier to setup, has problems more often. This means you need more flunkies that know how to fix it.

I think there will always be more of a demand for people who are skilled at troubleshooting the Windows OS.

 

[marat]

Well - there is one thing you might like windows - job security

If there are a few windows boxes and exchange server to administer - here is a job for the IT department.
What would they do if they had *nix machine working 24/7 without any problems? Windows is a Tamagotchi for the big guys

 

[singh]

I was going to write lots of reasons, but the four main reasons I use Windows NT over *nix:

-Ease of use
-Vast hardware support
-Thousands of neat applications
-Win32 API --- probably the richest and the best I've programmed for

 

[Saltin]

<< Convince me Windows is the best choice. I dont game, so dont bother with that silly argument. I have been looking at jobs and learning what other people do and most admins have to deal with some Windows systems >>



You've answered the question for yourself. Don't ask us to tell you why it's the "best" choice. You already know it's a "necessary" choice.
Nix "may" be making some inroads in the server market. It's debateable. Guess what though? For every server, there are at least ten clients, and those clients are MS machines. 2k pro is "the best" desktop OS for the business world. If you don't want to accept that, you can at least accept the fact that it is by far and away the most widely used.

A good admin can work any box on his network.

Server side, 2k is reliant on the admin. They make it easy enough for the dummies to get themselves up and running, but it takes skill to get it up and running well. With 2k Advanced Server, you reap what you sow, and most 2k admin's are lousy sowers.

 

[Armitage]

No n0c, don't go to the dark side!!!
Seriously though, breadth of experience can't hurt when job hunting, but MSCEs are a dime-a-dozen. Good unix admins are hard to find, and hard to retain (somebody else will always pay them more!)



<< In case you ever get a wireless mouse you can be sure it will work! >>



huh?!?
using wireless mouse @ home & @ work on linux, nothing special at all. Just plugged it in like any other mouse.

 

[Armitage]

<< Unix - obviously more stable and robust. You just need a good sys admin to set things up and leave it alone.

Windows - we all know its shortcomings versus Unix. Easier to setup, has problems more often. This means you need more flunkies that know how to fix it.

I think there will always be more of a demand for people who are skilled at troubleshooting the Windows OS. >>



Actually, those are some good reasons for a unix guy to know windows.... After you have it set up & rocksolid so you don't have to toiuch it for weeks at a time, you'll have to know some windows stuff so you can look busy

 

[Eug]

Depends on what you do for a living and stuff you like to deal with.

For me, I depend on Powerpoint and Word, and a bunch of scientific and data management software that only exists for Windows. I use a lot of Photoshop, but I could get away with something else.

I use Firewire devices, digital cameras, USB scanners, several different laser printers, film scanners, kodachrome film printers, etc. etc. None of it has Unix drivers, and most don't have Linux drivers either. Actually I lie. I use much of the equipment and software with Mac OS X, which is Unix, but I'm sure that's not what you're talking about.

In other words, depending on what one needs to do, Unices (excluding Mac OS X) may be completely useless for some users. It if does all you want to do, stick with it, and all the power to ya.

 

[CTho9305]

i've actually been thinking about dumping 'doze completely.... after looking at what i do, the games I do play are all working fine under linux (even if under wine)... but when I want to try out a new game, it doesn't necessarily work. so games are the only reason i will be single-booting windows (i've realized that i'd rather deal with windows'... features that reboot, esp since XP is as stable as it is)

 

[Saltin]

<< MSCEs are a dime-a-dozen. Good unix admins are hard to find >>



Good MCSE's are just as hard to find. Maybe harder. You have to wade through alot of crap.

 

[vash]

n0cmonkey, since you aren't a gamer and don't really care about games, why do you even consider running Windows the next viable OS to use? If I took out "gaming" from my daily use of computers, it opens MANY more doors for an OS (and hardware) that I could/would use. Taking games out, I'd consider a Mac, for example.

Here's a good reason to learn Windows: IT PAYS! It pays WELL, I might add. Sure, all the *nix guys, who admin their boxes, can be paid quite well, but think of all the tutoring, upgrading and fixing you can do as a personal consultant! Throw a few ads here and there, advertise at local campuses and you are working for ca$h, fixing silly Windows problems and your life is CAKE.

As long as Windows is buggy, has issues, isn't 100% effective in fixing itself and users aren't savvy with computers as I, there will be someone to pay me to fix what they cannot fix. For me, this is as good a reason as any to learn, support and help promote Microsoft's buggy, slow, backwards, OS.

vash