Ok, there's been a lot of GM bashing recently

[Jumpem]

And I'm not going to say it's unwarranted.

However, people crossing their fingers hoping they go under need to realize something. GM is one of the biggest companies in the country, and indirectly employ millions. If they do go under it will send ripples through the whole economy.

 

[isekii]

They only got themselves to blame.
That and the UAW.

 

[sniperruff]

you do realize that if AOL, bestbuy, microsoft,tigerdirect collapse, many people would lose jobs too, right?

ok maybe not tigerdirect.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: isekii
They only got themselves to blame.
That and the UAW.

I'd say it's mostly the latter. One of the chief accounting/finance managers at GM gave a presentation at my school. He said that the costs of unions are getting too overwhelming. Around $1500 of every new car goes to healthcare for employees. He also mentioned that the pensions the union demands cost GM too much money to be profitable.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
you do realize that if AOL, bestbuy, microsoft,tigerdirect collapse, many people would lose jobs too, right?

ok maybe not tigerdirect.

Of course. My point is not that GM is perfect or makes the best cars, just that people hoping they go under are idiots.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
And I'm not going to say it's unwarranted.

However, people crossing their fingers hoping they go under need to realize something. GM is one of the biggest companies in the country, and indirectly employ millions. If they do go under it will send ripples through the whole economy.

heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: OS
heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

Unions never do. They are composed of members that are too greedy to see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: OS
heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

Unions never do. They are composed of members that are too greedy to see the handwriting on the wall.

That's a complete overgeneralization, but I won't get into that here since this isn't P&N.

Edit: GM's problem is they have too many brands and they expanded too quickly by acquiring instead of developing better cars. Have you seen their vehicles? They ALL look the same.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: sniperruff
you do realize that if AOL, bestbuy, microsoft,tigerdirect collapse, many people would lose jobs too, right?

ok maybe not tigerdirect.

Of course. My point is not that GM is perfect or makes the best cars, just that people hoping they go under are idiots.

people do the same with ford, bestbuy and AOL. but the fact is, GM's latest cares are subpar at best.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease
That's a complete overgeneralization, but I won't get into that here since this isn't P&N.

Edit: GM's problem is they have too many brands and they expanded too quickly by acquiring instead of developing better cars. Have you seen their vehicles? They ALL look the same.

I know that's a problem. I've talked about that before.

The unions have a right to bargain for wages and benefits, but they need to see that their employer is having major troubles. They should realize that for the good of the company, and perhaps their future employment, they should be willing to take a little less.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
you do realize that if AOL, bestbuy, microsoft,tigerdirect collapse, many people would lose jobs too, right?

ok maybe not tigerdirect.

Two things...

1) Outside of Microsoft none of those have an average rate of pay ANYWHERE close to what an average GM employee make. There is a huge disparity of income/buying power between your average $45,000 a year GM employee and your average $20,000 a year Best Buy employee.

2) GM collapsing is more than just GM employees. It's dealers & sales people. It's service techs and mechanics. It's parts people working at counters. It's engineering firms designing parts and producing them for GM.

A company like GM collapsing would be unlike anything else you have seen in your lifetime. It will not be pretty.

 

[Passions]

Toyota needs to buy GM altogether and destroy the UAW with a hammering vengence.

DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!!

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: OS
heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

Unions never do. They are composed of members that are too greedy to see the handwriting on the wall.

That's a complete overgeneralization, but I won't get into that here since this isn't P&N.

Edit: GM's problem is they have too many brands and they expanded too quickly by acquiring instead of developing better cars. Have you seen their vehicles? They ALL look the same.

GM's expanded their brands? since when? The only new brand they have added in over twenty years is Saturn. Well, they briefly did Geo but that got consolidated into chevy. Yes, their cars look the same. that started in the '70s if not sooner.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: smc13

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: OS
heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

Unions never do. They are composed of members that are too greedy to see the handwriting on the wall.

That's a complete overgeneralization, but I won't get into that here since this isn't P&N.

Edit: GM's problem is they have too many brands and they expanded too quickly by acquiring instead of developing better cars. Have you seen their vehicles? They ALL look the same.

GM's expanded their brands? since when? The only new brand they have added in over twenty years is Saturn. Well, they briefly did Geo but that got consolidated into chevy. Yes, their cars look the same. that started in the '70s if not sooner.

Uhhhh....

Hummer, Saab, Suzuki, Opel, and Subaru ring any bells?

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: OS
heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

Unions never do. They are composed of members that are too greedy to see the handwriting on the wall.

Now don't go and lump all unions together like that...

 

[Ntar]

GM es una puta estúpida de la perra del asno

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Passions
Toyota needs to buy GM altogether and destroy the UAW with a hammering vengence.

DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!!

You are a fvcking moron, you know that?
Do you have ANY idea how many GM vehicles are on the road today?
If GM collapsed it would leave MILLIONS of people without parts or service available for thier cars. Not to mention putting many thousands of people out of work.
I hope someone drives a Toyota up your ass. :|

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: isekii
They only got themselves to blame.
That and the UAW.

I'd say it's mostly the latter. One of the chief accounting/finance managers at GM gave a presentation at my school. He said that the costs of unions are getting too overwhelming. Around $1500 of every new car goes to healthcare for employees. He also mentioned that the pensions the union demands cost GM too much money to be profitable.

I know this isn't in P&N ... but perhaps PART of the problem is the cost of healthcare ... I don't understand how drug companies can get away with retail prices well over $100 per month for many of their maintenance meds (And don't say it's the pharmacies either, as they make VERY little profit on the expensive brand name drugs. All their profits come from Generics and OTC sales)

 

[Kroze]

they just did a recall of over 2 million vehicles. ROFL.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: smc13

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: OS
heh, apparently the UAW doesn't care.

Unions never do. They are composed of members that are too greedy to see the handwriting on the wall.

That's a complete overgeneralization, but I won't get into that here since this isn't P&N.

Edit: GM's problem is they have too many brands and they expanded too quickly by acquiring instead of developing better cars. Have you seen their vehicles? They ALL look the same.

GM's expanded their brands? since when? The only new brand they have added in over twenty years is Saturn. Well, they briefly did Geo but that got consolidated into chevy. Yes, their cars look the same. that started in the '70s if not sooner.

Uhhhh....

Hummer, Saab, Suzuki, Opel, and Subaru ring any bells?

Subaru = non controlling stake.

Hummer, Saab, Suzuki, Opel are all not Expanded, they purchased already going companies, not decided to make a whole knew brand.

MIKE

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: dartworth
Now don't go and lump all unions together like that...

I've only heard about the big unions. Some local ones may not be so bad. I just think the unions need to be concerned about their company's financial health, not just their own.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
I know this isn't in P&N ... but perhaps PART of the problem is the cost of healthcare ... I don't understand how drug companies can get away with retail prices well over $100 per month for many of their maintenance meds (And don't say it's the pharmacies either, as they make VERY little profit on the expensive brand name drugs. All their profits come from Generics and OTC sales)

I agree with that too. I think another problem is all of the malpractice and medical injury lawsuits. Malpractice insurance is the main thing driving up healthcare costs.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Passions
Toyota needs to buy GM altogether and destroy the UAW with a hammering vengence.

DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!!

You are a fvcking moron, you know that?
Do you have ANY idea how many GM vehicles are on the road today?
If GM collapsed it would leave MILLIONS of people without parts or service available for thier cars. Not to mention putting many thousands of people out of work.
I hope someone drives a Toyota up your ass. :|

Not really.

Parts can still be made, just as they are now.

The dies don't melt down in shame because the company tanks.

Aftermarket suppliers would still be here.

Mechanics don't "forget" how to fix cars when the maker goes out of business.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Passions
Toyota needs to buy GM altogether and destroy the UAW with a hammering vengence.

DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!!

You are a fvcking moron, you know that?
Do you have ANY idea how many GM vehicles are on the road today?
If GM collapsed it would leave MILLIONS of people without parts or service available for thier cars. Not to mention putting many thousands of people out of work.
I hope someone drives a Toyota up your ass. :|

Not really.

Parts can still be made, just as they are now.

The dies don't melt down in shame because the company tanks.

Aftermarket suppliers would still be here.

The thing is that some of those companies rely on GM for good portions of thier income.
GM goes under they have much less income, they in turn go under, massive parts shortages ensue.

 

[Passions]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Passions
Toyota needs to buy GM altogether and destroy the UAW with a hammering vengence.

DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!! DOWN WITH GM!!!

You are a fvcking moron, you know that?
Do you have ANY idea how many GM vehicles are on the road today?
If GM collapsed it would leave MILLIONS of people without parts or service available for thier cars. Not to mention putting many thousands of people out of work.
I hope someone drives a Toyota up your ass. :|

Not really.

Parts can still be made, just as they are now.

The dies don't melt down in shame because the company tanks.

Aftermarket suppliers would still be here.

Mechanics don't "forget" how to fix cars when the maker goes out of business.

OWNED!!!! Don't get all emotional on me, foolio.