• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Ok, the frustration has set in.

slightlyhuman

slightlyhuman

Lifer
I'm on 1.5/384(upload was 512 but they cut it down to help with stability or something in that aspect).

this DSL we have(only provider around) has been worthless since day 1. we've had dsl out in the shop before the new house was built and it was sh1t. well now we are moved in the new house and dsl is up and running. i'm pulling 1100ish/250ish on the speakeasy dallas speed test. I just hopped on a CSS server and was pinging around 130. I know since the phone guy said we were one of the furthest customers on the loop speed won't be the best.

He mentioned something about port forwarding and that it might help a lot with ping times/latency issues. I don't know anything about networking so I'm kind of stranded on an island looking for help.

Can anyone point me in the right direction or offer any tips/suggestions? Filters are installed on the DSL line.

I'm using the DSL modem and my microsoft mn-100 wireless router.

TIA
 
First, try to ping your isp gateway ip address, if your ping time is high, than sorry to say this but your isp is right, and you dont have the best dsl quality.

if not, do a traceroute to the server ip address and see where does the slowdown occur !!
 
I do not think that the open ports related to the DSL quality in general, he probably meant open ports that are specific to the games that you use online.
 
DP, who's your DSL provider?

Have you tried installing an ADSL splitter at the NID? The filters suck. Usually, replacing them with a splitter improves your signal noticeably.

If you ping your ISP's first hop router, do you see any packet loss? How about any packets that take noticeably longer than normal?

All that said, nothing you have said about your performance is necessarily a problem, other than the fact that you might not like it. Assuming you're using ADSL with PPPoE over an ATM VC (common), a raw line speed of 1.5/384 delivering 1.1/250 in real world IP bandwidth to off-net hosts is within expectations on the download and only somewhat bad on the upload. Just because the raw line speed is 1.5M down does not mean you actually get 1.5M of usable IP bandwidth, ADSL/ATM/PPPoE introduces a lot of overhead (waste). If you're on a long loop and pushing it to begin with, G.DMT will drop tones and your upload speed will suffer first if memory serves, so that might just explain the upload speed. You're probably interleaved, which adds a lot of latency in order to better reduce errors. Add some latency with your ISP, their peering, and the ISP of the gaming server you pinged, and 130ms could also be within expectations. (generally, your ping to somewhere random on the Internet says nothing about your line. Please ping your ISP's side of the connection and tell us about that)

So, basically, there are some things you can try that might help, but what you're seeing is not all that broken and so there might not be a big fix to be had.
 
Originally posted by: JackMDS
I do not think that the open ports related to the DSL quality in general, he probably meant open ports that are specific to the games that you use online.
Click to expand...

i play css mainly but occasionally cod2, bf42 and bf2. care to elaborate or point me in the right direction?

cmetz....

DP, who's your DSL provider?
speedstream
Have you tried installing an ADSL splitter at the NID? The filters suck. Usually, replacing them with a splitter improves your signal noticeably. i haven't personally but perhaps the phone company has? how can i find out?

If you ping your ISP's first hop router, do you see any packet loss? How about any packets that take noticeably longer than normal? i don't know anything about networking really besides the basics. i'm good in the aspect of building computers just so you know i'm not a complete noob. how do i ping my first hop router or whatever you're talking about?

if you tell me what to do i can tell you any info you need to know.

that said, if it's as good as it's going to get then i'll live with it but if there's any room for improvement then i'm very interested.

:beer: and please let me know something🙂
 
If you ping your ISP's first hop router, do you see any packet loss? How about any packets that take noticeably longer than normal? i don't know anything about networking really besides the basics. i'm good in the aspect of building computers just so you know i'm not a complete noob. how do i ping my first hop router or whatever you're talking about?


start, run, cmd,

then type tracert www.google.ca

post results here 😛
 


C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>tracert www.yahoo.com

Tracing route to www.yahoo-ht2.akadns.net [209.191.93.52]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 4 ms 4 ms 192.168.2.1
2 6 ms 5 ms 4 ms 192.168.254.254
3 93 ms 91 ms 91 ms h1.171.97.216.ip.alltel.net [216.97.171.1]
4 95 ms 91 ms 92 ms h3.170.97.216.ip.alltel.net [216.97.170.3]
5 98 ms 98 ms 98 ms 500.POS3-1.GW11.DFW9.ALTER.NET [157.130.153.137]

6 98 ms 98 ms 100 ms 0.so-3-0-0.XT1.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.101.138]
7 100 ms 99 ms 98 ms 0.so-6-0-0.BR6.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.99.2]
8 99 ms 100 ms 99 ms so-3-3-0.edge1.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.110.121]

9 103 ms 99 ms 120 ms so-1-2-0.bbr2.Dallas1.Level3.net [209.244.15.165
]
10 101 ms 99 ms 97 ms ae-21-56.car1.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.122.173]

11 99 ms 99 ms 98 ms 4.79.180.2
12 103 ms 100 ms 99 ms ge-0-1-0-p130.msr2.mud.yahoo.com [216.115.104.85
]
13 101 ms 103 ms 102 ms te-8-1.bas-c2.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.193.7]
14 102 ms 102 ms 102 ms f1.www.vip.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.93.52]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>
 
DP, the easy answer is that if you have never had the DSL provider/telco out to your house to do an install, or had them out for a repair and tell you, and you didn't put it in yourself, you probably don't have a splitter. Go to your NID, and look for a small greyish box nearby or underneath. It will typically say it's DSL related somewhere on it. Here's a picture for reference:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Siecor-Outdoor-POTS...11QQcategoryZ14922QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There are also "splitter modules" that mount inside the NID and replace the normal half-ringer line module. Those are harder to describe, and there are different flavors of them anyway.

If you're really not into telecom stuff, the best approach would to be to call your DSL provider and tell them you're having performance problems, and think it's a line problem, and would like them to send out a service technician to install a splitter. You may find that the call center folks won't want to do this, or won't know what a splitter is. In that case, just get them to send out a technician. Usually the guys on the ground are more helpful. If the technician uses an outboard splitter (a separate box), ask him if he can replace your phone line's module in the NID with one that is unconditioned and does not have a half-ringer (the one he'd install for SDSL). The outboard splitters typically have a half-ringer in them on the low band side, and the half-ringer does interfere with ADSL on the high-band, so you don't want that either.

If you're able to do some wiring, you can install an outboard splitter yourself. You just need a bit of extra phone cable, though I'd use a short length of cat5 cable instead. You connect your inside wiring's line 1 to the "POTS" red/green terminals in the splitter, IW's line 2 to the "DSL" red/green terminals in the splitter, and then run a short cable from the "telco" red/green terminals in the splitter to the "customer" red/green terminals in the NID. It's easy to do if you're wiring inclined, but if you screw it up you've screwed up your house's phone wiring, so make sure you're comfortable with doing it. ADSL splitters can be found reasonably cheap, look to pay about $10-$15 for one. The one I linked to is a good unit, but that particular listing isn't a good price (unless these things have gotten way more expensive lately, always possible).

Your ISP's next hop router is 216.97.171.1 - see in your traceroute how the next-hop latency goes from almost nothing to a lot? Ping that host for a while and see what happens. Do all the pings come back? Is the round-trip time consistent or does it vary - and if the latter, a little, or a lot?

Your ADSL line is introducing 91ms - 5ms = 86ms of latency. That's a bit on the high side, but 80ms of latency is not way outside the norm for an ADSL interleaved line. You might be able to get that latency cut down somewhere around in half by turning off interleave (Verizon calls this mode "Fast Path"). This comes at a cost - your line will be much more sensitive to noise (errors). If you are already marginal in terms of signal, turning off interleave could really hurt your performance. You'll get less latency, but you'll drop packets, and that's very bad for TCP performance, and probably worse for your games.

It looks like your ADSL modem is also a router, and then you have another router behind it. If that's the case, that's not helping. Most of the ADSL modems that are routers let you turn that feature off and make them just a dumb ADSL modem - see if you can do that.

Finally, see if you can get the signal level/error rate information out of your ADSL modem. Unfortunately, every device is much different about how you do this. Maybe it's a web UI. Maybe it's a hard to get diagnostic program with a hidden menu you have to know the right keys for. If you tell me what you have I might be able to point you at instructions. If you know the real ADSL signal stats, you can get a much better understanding of what actual problems there might be (or aren't) and what your line can really do. Your line may be great, and all the problems could be on your ISP's side. Or your line might be marginal and then it's a matter of trying to help it get a better signal. When you can see real numbers that's much better than just guessing. The same numbers are basically available on the DSLAM in your phone company's CO, but for some reason I never understood none of the ISPs make that info available to... pretty much anyone. I guess they like doing things the hard way.

 
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>ping www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.161.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 64.233.161.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 136ms, Maximum = 138ms, Average = 137ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>
 
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>ping www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.161.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.104: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 64.233.161.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 136ms, Maximum = 138ms, Average = 137ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>ping www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.161.147] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=140ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=137ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=140ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=141ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 64.233.161.147:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 137ms, Maximum = 141ms, Average = 139ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>ping www.yahoo.com

Pinging www.yahoo-ht2.akadns.net [209.191.93.52] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 209.191.93.52: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=50
Reply from 209.191.93.52: bytes=32 time=114ms TTL=50
Reply from 209.191.93.52: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=51
Reply from 209.191.93.52: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=51

Ping statistics for 209.191.93.52:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 98ms, Maximum = 114ms, Average = 102ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Derrick>
 
DP,

like others in this thread have said, you are probably on an interleaved profile so your ISP can reliably give you 1500/384. If you game and gaming is important to you, you maybe want to have them put you on a 768/384 normal profile.

You need to call them to ask about this. I dont know how your ISP is, but for my ISP, you have to ask them to make a "trouble ticket" with the maintenance department cuz the regular tech support people wont have any idea what an interleaved profile is.
 
Originally posted by: DP
Filters are installed on the DSL line.
TIA
Click to expand...
You mean filters are installed on lines connected to telephones or other analog devices, right? You do not have a filter on the line going into your DSL modem, do you? You should not have one on that line.

I'm surprised to read the negative comments here about using filters vs. a ADSL splitter. I have 4 filters, as I recall, on phone lines connected to phones and an old tape answering machine. It seems to me the splitter would simply be convenience, a way to avoid having to put filters on analog devices, but have no effect on the DSL connection to the computer. But, I'll acquiesce to the other posts on this.

My DLS service is also rated 1500/384 Mbps. Here, at my Ohio location, I'm getting actual speeds up around 1445 / 382.

I suggest you visit www.dslreports.com and run a Speed test. Then, run a Tweaks test and see what changes, if any, they recommend.

Also, I don't believe you answered the question where someone asked whether your modem is actually a combination modem/router and whether you have a separate router connected to it.

 
Let say that some one lives in a small down, and the road from the Expressway to the town is very narrow with potholes and bad overlay of asphalt.

You can buy a fancy car, rebuild your house to a level of mansion (with or without filters), be happy, be sad, laugh, cry.

The Road from the expressway would still be the same.

This might help with the Road.

Originally posted by: camara120
DP,

like others in this thread have said, you are probably on an interleaved profile so your ISP can reliably give you 1500/384. If you game and gaming is important to you, you maybe want to have them put you on a 768/384 normal profile.

You need to call them to ask about this. I dont know how your ISP is, but for my ISP, you have to ask them to make a "trouble ticket" with the maintenance department cuz the regular tech support people wont have any idea what an interleaved profile is.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: JackMDS
Let say that some one lives in a small down, and the road from the Expressway to the town is very narrow with potholes and bad overlay of asphalt.

You can buy a fancy car, rebuild your house to a level of mansion (with or without filters), be happy, be sad, laugh, cry.

The Road from the expressway would still be the same.

This might help with the Road.
Click to expand...

Anybody understand what he just said? I don't. :frown:

 
Originally posted by: dderolph
Originally posted by: JackMDS
Let say that some one lives in a small down, and the road from the Expressway to the town is very narrow with potholes and bad overlay of asphalt.

You can buy a fancy car, rebuild your house to a level of mansion (with or without filters), be happy, be sad, laugh, cry.

The Road from the expressway would still be the same.

This might help with the Road.
Click to expand...

Anybody understand what he just said? I don't. :frown:
Click to expand...


I take it to mean (along with JackMDSs suggestion that follows your quote) the signal at the pole has limitations, and the ISP has used a method to insure maximum (up to 1.5m) bandwidth. If DP wants best ping time instead, a different method with less bandwidth may be helpful. In any case the signal at the pole still has limitations, regardless of splitters or filters, that can only be accommodated for DPs purposes.


Jim
 
Thanks xgsound.

I am Sorry about the confusion; my post above is really comprised of two parts.

Part 1. If the infra structure from the Telco?s DSLAM to the entrance of you House is like the alleged road there is Nothing that can be done in your house to make the connection better.

Part 2. If the ISP uses the scheme as described by camara120, you can improve pings by asking the ISP to change the scheme.

Howvever, while pings would improve; Download Bandwidth would be cut into half.
 
I have to agree with the use of a DSL Splitter / Filter at the Point of Entrance as opposed to filters at each telephone set.
If you have more than 4 splitters, it will degrade performance on the DSL circuit which runs at about 10MHZ
You should also have the Telco run a line test for Noise, Foreign Voltages and Unbalances in the Capacity between
Tip to Ring and from Tip to Ground and Ring to Ground ..They should also check to be sure any Bridge Taps (that is where
your cable pair goes to say another block or another pedestal by another home) have been removed from the circuits

I also had issues with dsl dropping off until I put the Filter Splitter in .. has been rock solid ever since (about 1 yr now)

Who is your Telco / ISP Provider ? ?

Telco's normally will not mention the whole house filter splitter option as that mean they Must send a tech to install it $$$
They do not want to spend it, but this is a proven and effective solution

Note: That unit linked to at Ebay is the same one Verizon in NJ supplied to me so it is a good one
 
In the original post, he said, "I know since the phone guy said we were one of the furthest customers on the loop speed won't be the best." The distance from his home to the nearest telecom relay station is a factor which affects DSL speed, and that's out of his control and, at least in the short term, out of the ISP's control.

If DP wants best ping time instead, a different method with less bandwidth may be helpful.
Click to expand...
Care to elaborate? Insufficient bandwidth seems to be the basic problem here. So, how would a "different method with less bandwidth" be helpful?

In any case the signal at the pole still has limitations, regardless of splitters or filters, that can only be accommodated for DPs purposes.
Click to expand...
And, what might those accommodations be?


 
dderolph,

>Care to elaborate? Insufficient bandwidth seems to be the basic problem here. So, how would a "different method with less bandwidth" be helpful?

DP is concerned about his bandwidth and his latency. What we're saying is that he could probably have better latency if he's willing to take a bandwidth decrease. While all of us would really like the option where we have our cake and eat it to, there are some physical and technological limits at work here, and he may have to choose. If he's a serious gamer, bandwidth might not be as valuable as latency - games are a lot more sensitive to the latter than to the former. So that might be a viable option. At least he might have some choices to trade off between.
 
dderolph;
I wish I could elaborate more, but that's the limit of my networking knowledge. The basic problem isn't exactly insufficient bandwidth, but rather poor signal. According to the other posts the ISP can optimize the poor signal for either best bandwidth or best ping time, whichever is more important to the OP.

A splitter (if I understand this right) to provide a more dedicated line to the modem couldn't hurt if properly installed, but can't improve beyond the signal from the pole.


Jim
 
A splitter minimizes noise due to IW reflections. Older homes and homes that have been built / remodeled in segments can have some crappy inside wiring, and that hurts the DSL. Also, the whole filter concept is just... broken. Anyway, a splitter helps prevent reflections from your phone sets and such from causing extra noise to be seen at the modem, and does help signal quality. You might be able to help again by running a new dedicated cable from the splitter's DSL output to the modem. Try hooking the modem up directly to the DSL side of the splitter and see if you get better results than from inside the house.

Of course, first you need a splitter. And there's always the chance it doesn't help noticeably.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top