OK, large engine not very highly tuned? or smaller engine tuned to the max?

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Linux23
So it is true? My 2000 Maxima with 3.0L V6 is less fuel efficient than my father's big 4.6L V8 in his Grand Marquis?

How is this even possible? An engine with 2 extra cylinders can be just as efficient as my V6? I thought I was just imagining this when I complain that my Max is horrible on fuel economy.

it can happen. there is such thing as bad engineering.

which would get better gas mileage, an underpowered smaller engine in a larger than average vehicle or a large engine in a smaller than average vehicle?

 

Tell me then, why does a Z06 get better gas mileage than a Neon SRT-4?

Viper GTS

Because the SRT-4 is a piece-of-shit?

Same as overclocking CPUs. By the time these screwballs get done buying their low MHz CPU, exotic fans and God knows how much tweaking time, they've already invested more than a comparable high MHz CPU would have cost. Same with engines. I'd MUCH rather have an engine that could cruise up to speed, then one that had to scream up to speed. You KNOW which one's going to need more attention and repairs.

Having a tiny screamer to save a little on gasoline is penny wise and dollar foolish. If it's a matter of having a lighter car for better handling, that's all well and good... IF YOU DRIVE ON A RACE COURSE EVERY WEEK!

And it starts.
Might as well respond I suppose. We all know how these threads go though.

I've owned large and small cars. American and imports.
When I think about the average american v8, I think about a crown vic, or a caprice classic.

I owned a 88 caprice. It had I believe the 5.0v8, making 170hp, weighing in at around 3700lbs curb.
In contrast, I've also owned a Mistsubishi Expo lrv sport, with a 1.8l i4 making 113hp, weighing in at 2700lbs curb.
Currently, I drive a 04 subaru impreza 2.5ts, with a 2.5l boxer4 making 165hp, weighing in at 3000lbs curb.

The caprice was sluggish, not great on gas, and big. It was a couch on wheels. RWD sucked real bad in Buffalo.
I believe it's still running with a little over 100K on it. It wasn't the greatest on repairs, but, reliable none the less.
The mitsu was essentially in my mind the pinnacle of reliability. It wasn't fast, definatly great on gas, and probably the most reliable vehicle I have ever driven. It had 305K on the odometer when it bowed out of this world, by means of a drunken driver smashing into it. In fact, the car went 2 years without one single repair. Were talking about a 1992 econo 4cyl with 300,000 miles on it.

The subaru is definatly my favorite car by far out of all of them that I have owned. It strikes a great balance between size and power. AWD is great too. The subaru is superior to the caprice in every possible way but one. The subaru doesn't have the couch on wheels feel, which I can live without.

I prefer to try and find a middle road in these discussions, because SOME of us choose to go off the deep end.

 

[halik]

i'd go down to the middle - twin turbo 3kGT / supra / 300zx (i currently own 300zx n/a).

But this debate is really pointless, its not about hp/size but hp/WEIGHT. Thats what makes a car quick - your 400lb/ft f250 diesel truck might have a ton of torque, but mr-2 turbo would take him with half of that. I personally prefer quick, light cars over 4000lb landboats, because lighter car will outhandle heavier one with the same hp/LB ratio. Just look at all those miatas on SCCA

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: halik
i'd go down to the middle - twin turbo 3kGT / supra / 300zx (i currently own 300zx n/a).

But this debate is really pointless, its not about hp/size but hp/WEIGHT. Thats what makes a car quick - your 400lb/ft f250 diesel truck might have a ton of torque, but mr-2 turbo would take him with half of that. I personally prefer quick, light cars over 4000lb landboats, because lighter car will outhandle heavier one with the same hp/LB ratio. Just look at all those miatas on SCCA

hmmm, i thought i was talking about a 3000 lb Mustang LX. 225 hp, 300 ft lbs of torque.

 

[amdskip]

Small tuned quite a bit. My dad is in the process of building a 700HP small block

 

[Ornery]

Here's what I see, SammySon. Half the people in this country drive some kind of truck. Of the 50% left, some drive muscle cars, pony cars, or some like me, drive full size cruisers, which includes the police in Buffalo (I wonder how they do it? ) That leaves the balance of you driving economy or small performance cars. You can guess what that ratio might be. That leaves you and your opinion in a distinct minority!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: MaxFusion16
it's all about efficiency

Tell me then, why does a Z06 get better gas mileage than a Neon SRT-4?

Viper GTS

you guys keep on going on and on about Z06 getting 30mpg. But that's only on the highway. What about regular city and enthusaistic driving (which is more common than a highway). \

And during rush hour on a highway there'sn o way your gonna see 30mpg.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

it's all about personal perefecne and power band.

Obviously the 5L makes much more torque at a lower range.

You guys all say whats a better engine. But you gotta realize that different engines are used for different applications. For instance, a big block would not wokr in a S2000 or Elise while a high revving I4 would not work in a Mustang.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: MaxFusion16
it's all about efficiency

Tell me then, why does a Z06 get better gas mileage than a Neon SRT-4?

Viper GTS

you guys keep on going on and on about Z06 getting 30mpg. But that's only on the highway. What about regular city and enthusaistic driving (which is more common than a highway). \

And during rush hour on a highway there'sn o way your gonna see 30mpg.

But that same argument applies to all cars. So, while the Vette wont get the advertised ratings, neither will the other cars we're comparing it to.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
it's all about personal perefecne and power band.

Obviously the 5L makes much more torque at a lower range.

You guys all say whats a better engine. But you gotta realize that different engines are used for different applications. For instance, a big block would not wokr in a S2000 or Elise while a high revving I4 would not work in a Mustang.

why wouldn't a high revving i4 work in a mustang?

no reason it wouldn't.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
it's all about personal perefecne and power band.

Obviously the 5L makes much more torque at a lower range.

You guys all say whats a better engine. But you gotta realize that different engines are used for different applications. For instance, a big block would not wokr in a S2000 or Elise while a high revving I4 would not work in a Mustang.

why wouldn't a high revving i4 work in a mustang?

no reason it wouldn't.

Because then it'd be a Probe.

- M4H

 

Here's what I see, SammySon. Half the people in this country drive some kind of truck. Of the 50% left, some like me, drive full size cruisers, which includes the police in Buffalo (I wonder how they do it? ) That leaves the balance of you driving economy or performance cars. You can guess what that ratio might be. That leaves you and your opinion in a distinct minority!

Half the people in this country don't vote, wear jeans so tight you can see their anal veins, and listen to country music, what's your point? Of the 50% left, some, like me, are younger, which includes the next largest consumer base (Youth and progress isn't important though, right?) That leaves the balace of the country, which is the elderly and the criminals. Isn't minority opinion how change and progress happens? No, can't be, the world is the way it is because everyone thinks the same.

So, basically, your point is that, because the majority does it, it's right? That's an interesting and rather limited way to think about it. Though, I guess cogs do keep the machine running.

But that same argument applies to all cars. So, while the Vette wont get the advertised ratings, neither will the other cars we're comparing it to.

It has more to do with driving style than advertised numbers. No one driving a z06 vette is going to get 30 mpg. Unless you drive that baby by the books, and I'm SURE that's how a z06 owner drives right?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: MaxFusion16
it's all about efficiency

Tell me then, why does a Z06 get better gas mileage than a Neon SRT-4?

Viper GTS

you guys keep on going on and on about Z06 getting 30mpg. But that's only on the highway. What about regular city and enthusaistic driving (which is more common than a highway). \

And during rush hour on a highway there'sn o way your gonna see 30mpg.

But that same argument applies to all cars. So, while the Vette wont get the advertised ratings, neither will the other cars we're comparing it to.

all i know was on a good day, i could get 30 mpg on highway with my mustang and i averaged 24 mpg city/highway combination.

overall i was happy with the gas mileage of that mustang.

my Olds is rated better EPA than the Mustang BUT in real world driving, enthusiast driving etc, i have to push that 3800 v6 a LOT harder than i ever pushed that 5.0 v8 to get decent performance.

 

[Kadarin]

The 5.0 is a small engine

"Tuning" is a term used by import weenies... not by people who build serious engines.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
it's all about personal perefecne and power band.

Obviously the 5L makes much more torque at a lower range.

You guys all say whats a better engine. But you gotta realize that different engines are used for different applications. For instance, a big block would not wokr in a S2000 or Elise while a high revving I4 would not work in a Mustang.

why wouldn't a high revving i4 work in a mustang?

no reason it wouldn't.

Because then it'd be a Probe.

- M4H

nah the Probe was FWD

even on it's worst day, the Mustang is still RWD.

 

"Tuning" is a term used by import weenies... not by people who build serious engines.

Funny, I hear race car drivers use that term all the time.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
it's all about personal perefecne and power band.

Obviously the 5L makes much more torque at a lower range.

You guys all say whats a better engine. But you gotta realize that different engines are used for different applications. For instance, a big block would not wokr in a S2000 or Elise while a high revving I4 would not work in a Mustang.

why wouldn't a high revving i4 work in a mustang?

no reason it wouldn't.

Because the Mustang is relatively heavy and teh whole appeal of it is high horsepower and high torque that shreds tires all the way till sunday.

A high revving 4cyl can't do that.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The 5.0 is a small engine

"Tuning" is a term used by import weenies... not by people who build serious engines.

<Ricer> but dawg teh Civic is mAd serious tYt3 with that VTEC powAr y0! </Ricer>

Tuning does imply "fine-tuning" ... which implies "minimal alteration".

- M4H

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
it's all about personal perefecne and power band.

Obviously the 5L makes much more torque at a lower range.

You guys all say whats a better engine. But you gotta realize that different engines are used for different applications. For instance, a big block would not wokr in a S2000 or Elise while a high revving I4 would not work in a Mustang.

why wouldn't a high revving i4 work in a mustang?

no reason it wouldn't.

Because the Mustang is relatively heavy and teh whole appeal of it is high horsepower and high torque that shreds tires all the way till sunday.

A high revving 4cyl can't do that.

my mustang with the 5 liter v8 was about 3000 lbs. with a I4 it was closer to 2800 lbs.

not really heavy.

 

[Ornery]

" Isn't minority opinion how change and progress happens? No, can't be, the world is the way it is because everyone thinks the same.

So, basically, your point is that, because the majority does it, it's right?"


"The subaru is definatly my favorite car by far out of all of them that I have owned."

As I pointed out, that is a minority opinion...


"I prefer to try and find a middle road in these discussions..."

...Since your opinion is of the minority, by default it can't be middle of the road. That's my point! I won't even try to pretend my opinion is middle of the road. Don't care if it is or not! Johann asked a question, and I answered it with plenty of facts, and a dash of opinion... OK, a dollop!

 

[MercenaryForHire]

<Polar Opposite> Ornery is a big fat doodiehead redneck with a gun rack in his old rusty pickup truck and soccermom wife driving an SUV. My Civic owns you! </Polar Opposite>

/fans the flames

- M4H

 

[RagingBITCH]

It's their opinion but I'd choose large engine - you can always tune it and crank it up a notch, whereas an engine cranked to the max has nothing else left to give.

 

[CraigRT]

I'd take the 3.5.. just as much power if not more, and likely more dependable (but that's up for debate)

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: CraigRT
I'd take the 3.5.. just as much power if not more, and likely more dependable (but that's up for debate)

and just WHY would you assume that??

I KNOW for a fact that my 5.0 Liter mustang ran for 5 yrs and 80k miles with ZERO engine problems. i'd take my chances with that.

 

[Howard]

Larger, not highly tuned. Because then I could get some more power out of it.