Ok I can't take this anymore...Why The Protests over the Immigration Bill?

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: piasabird
A little birdie wispered in my ear that 90% of all crime in California is caused by illegal aliens. This may not be 100% true, who knows. The media is so scared to say anything against people from Mexico for fear of being called a racist.

Along with hard working people from Mexico we are also getting a lot of criminals.

I think we should close the border to Mexico for 5 years to teach Mexico a lesson and stop all Mail leaving the country for Mexico, and all travel to Mexico.

It would take that long to get halfway back to normal and would speed up our Economic Recovery.

Either that or invade Mexico and make it the 51st State.

I don't know about 90% of crime in California being caused by illegals, but it is certainly a lot. I do know that a large percentage of the drunk driving is done by illegals, but you don't hear that in the media do you? You don't hear a lot about all of the crime committed by illegals period.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: fitzov
I'm convinced the only way the left will be happy with this issue is if we provide unlimited free bus rides from Mexico complete with immigration papers. Anything less is "inhumane".

I am convinced the only way the right will be happy with this issue is if we allow unlimited immigration as long as they are willing to work cheap. Anything less hurts America.

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: piasabird
A little birdie wispered in my ear that 90% of all crime in California is caused by illegal aliens. This may not be 100% true, who knows. The media is so scared to say anything against people from Mexico for fear of being called a racist.

Along with hard working people from Mexico we are also getting a lot of criminals.

I think we should close the border to Mexico for 5 years to teach Mexico a lesson and stop all Mail leaving the country for Mexico, and all travel to Mexico.

It would take that long to get halfway back to normal and would speed up our Economic Recovery.

Either that or invade Mexico and make it the 51st State.

I don't know about 90% of crime in California being caused by illegals, but it is certainly a lot. I do know that a large percentage of the drunk driving is done by illegals, but you don't hear that in the media do you? You don't hear a lot about all of the crime committed by illegals period.

I think that 90% figure is completely off. But your mention of drunk drivers has some truth to it. Also, what I notice at work is that LOTS (more than 60%) of the cars we impound for being driven without a license, are being driven by people with only a Mexican ID. That in and of itself does not make them illegal, but it's a pretty good indicator. We actually don't even verify if they are legal or not, we just don't have time.

I don't know about 90% of crime in California being caused by illegals, but it is certainly a lot. I do know that a large percentage of the drunk driving is done by illegals, but you don't hear that in the media do you? You don't hear a lot about all of the crime committed by illegals period.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: fitzov
I'm convinced the only way the left will be happy with this issue is if we provide unlimited free bus rides from Mexico complete with immigration papers. Anything less is "inhumane".

I am convinced the only way the right will be happy with this issue is if we allow unlimited immigration as long as they are willing to work cheap. Anything less hurts America.

Not really. The right is represented by the House bill which seeks to penalize illegals and companies that hire them. For once, I'm in agreement with them. But it will never happen because the GOP is too chicken-shite.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: athithi
I don't understand something about this situation. Yesterday, I heard President Bush say that kicking these people out of the workforce would harm the economy (with numbers like 7.2 million illegals forming 4.9% of the workforce and 24% of farming etc., etc.) and hurt the country. But at the same time Bush is also saying that shedding higher paying jobs is good for the economy. Now, I am not an economics major so I could be wrong about this, but how is it better for an economy to retain low paying jobs/workers and shed higher paying jobs/workers? I can see how this is a good thing for companies.

Yes you are missing something. If low paid workers come in to the US it will most likely lower per capita GNP, but this is irrelevant. It has the potential to benefit others in the country (and the workers themselves) by reducing the price of unskilled labour. Layoffs should not be understood as permanent loss of jobs. If a company decides to outsource (which is hardly within government policy) that does not effect a permanent reduction in skilled jobs in the country. Rather, in a free market, jobs will go to those with the appropriate skills at the appropriate price. Somehow your thinking has not acknowledged gains from trade.

But for the economy in general isn't it better for people to be making more money since that way they can spend more, pay more in taxes, commit fewer crimes, use less welfare and so on?

That is certainly a factor to be considered. Another factor to be considered is potential tax revenue, which will be higher for skilled immigrants.

In a way is it not like saying that only what is good for companies is good for the American economy. Perhaps there is a truth to that, but that will eventually lead to a nation where only 3 classes will exist -

1. People that work in the Government
2. People that own/run companies
3. People that work the lowest paying jobs

This result would be highly inefficient and contradict economic theories of free markets.

 

[Mursilis]

The East Coast had demonstrations as well, including student walk-outs. Link

My favorite quote:
Christian Dorn, 16, a Salvadoran and a junior at Potomac High School in Dumfries, said the demonstrations had proved something.

"It got the word out that we're not going to be quiet," she said. "It's similar to what the African Americans did in the 1960s. . . . We shouldn't be treated like criminals."

:roll: Let's see - you're breaking the law, but you shouldn't be treated like criminals?!?! Can you get any more arrogant?

My sister-in-law is from Honduras (and came here LEGALLY) and because she speaks fluent Spanish (as well as English), when she serves as a volunteer at the local schools, she usually helps new Hispanic residents register their kids. She said the moms will list the father's work address on the emergency contact form, but on the 'reduced or free lunch' form, they'll put $0 for income! When she confronts them about claiming $0 for income when at least one of the parents is employed, they simply state, without a bit of shame, that they want their child to get a free lunch! When she tells them she won't let them lie on the form, they get angry with her!

 

[CSMR]

Illegals should be legalized IMO. This is out of compassion, out of a consideration of economic benefits (benefits of workers to the economy, tax benefits of legal taxable workers), and out of a need to regularize society (and not have rampant law-breaking). Naturalization requirments (learning english) should accompany this. However they should not be made citizens IMO. That devalues citizenship. They do not need to vote or have the rights ascribed to citizens.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: CSMR
Illegals should be legalized IMO. This is out of compassion, out of a consideration of economic benefits (benefits of workers to the economy, tax benefits of legal taxable workers), and out of a need to regularize society (and not have rampant law-breaking). Naturalization requirments (learning english) should accompany this. However they should not be made citizens IMO. That devalues citizenship. They do not need to vote or have the rights ascribed to citizens.

so whoever wants to can just come into the US, whenever they want to, forever?! ummm, no.

what the heck does "regularize society" mean?

And how would making all of them automatically "legal" prevent them from "rampant law-breaking"?

the only thing you said that I would agree with is that legal aliens should be forced to learn English in order to gain full citizenship.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Mursilis
The East Coast had demonstrations as well, including student walk-outs. Link
My sister-in-law is from Honduras (and came here LEGALLY) and because she speaks fluent Spanish (as well as English), when she serves as a volunteer at the local schools, she usually helps new Hispanic residents register their kids. She said the moms will list the father's work address on the emergency contact form, but on the 'reduced or free lunch' form, they'll put $0 for income! When she confronts them about claiming $0 for income when at least one of the parents is employed, they simply state, without a bit of shame, that they want their child to get a free lunch! When she tells them she won't let them lie on the form, they get angry with her!

THAT pisses me off... uhg! I would LOVE to see the statewide list for free lunches, and then compare every single name to the enrollment info; just to see how many scumsucking leeches are pulling that sh*t...

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: CSMR
Illegals should be legalized IMO. This is out of compassion, out of a consideration of economic benefits (benefits of workers to the economy, tax benefits of legal taxable workers), and out of a need to regularize society (and not have rampant law-breaking). Naturalization requirments (learning english) should accompany this. However they should not be made citizens IMO. That devalues citizenship. They do not need to vote or have the rights ascribed to citizens.

so whoever wants to can just come into the US, whenever they want to, forever?! ummm, no.

what the heck does "regularize society" mean?

And how would making all of them automatically "legal" prevent them from "rampant law-breaking"?

the only thing you said that I would agree with is that legal aliens should be forced to learn English in order to gain full citizenship.

I think that the US should determine what immigration it wants, what workforce it wants, and what taxes it can get, and acheive this through the law, not by having strict and unenforced laws. We have people breaking the law, and the law doesn't care about it. This should be changed. Either existing strict laws should be enforced, or, less strict laws should be enforced. I think the latter is better.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: CSMR
Illegals should be legalized IMO. This is out of compassion, out of a consideration of economic benefits (benefits of workers to the economy, tax benefits of legal taxable workers), and out of a need to regularize society (and not have rampant law-breaking). Naturalization requirments (learning english) should accompany this. However they should not be made citizens IMO. That devalues citizenship. They do not need to vote or have the rights ascribed to citizens.

so whoever wants to can just come into the US, whenever they want to, forever?! ummm, no.

what the heck does "regularize society" mean?

And how would making all of them automatically "legal" prevent them from "rampant law-breaking"?

the only thing you said that I would agree with is that legal aliens should be forced to learn English in order to gain full citizenship.

I think that the US should determine what immigration it wants, what workforce it wants, and what taxes it can get, and acheive this through the law, not by having strict and unenforced laws. We have people breaking the law, and the law doesn't care about it. This should be changed. Either existing strict laws should be enforced, or, less strict laws should be enforced. I think the latter is better.

are you saying that our current immigration laws are too strict? please tell me that's not what you meant...

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: CSMR
Illegals should be legalized IMO. This is out of compassion, out of a consideration of economic benefits (benefits of workers to the economy, tax benefits of legal taxable workers), and out of a need to regularize society (and not have rampant law-breaking). Naturalization requirments (learning english) should accompany this. However they should not be made citizens IMO. That devalues citizenship. They do not need to vote or have the rights ascribed to citizens.

so whoever wants to can just come into the US, whenever they want to, forever?! ummm, no.

what the heck does "regularize society" mean?

And how would making all of them automatically "legal" prevent them from "rampant law-breaking"?

the only thing you said that I would agree with is that legal aliens should be forced to learn English in order to gain full citizenship.

I think that the US should determine what immigration it wants, what workforce it wants, and what taxes it can get, and acheive this through the law, not by having strict and unenforced laws. We have people breaking the law, and the law doesn't care about it. This should be changed. Either existing strict laws should be enforced, or, less strict laws should be enforced. I think the latter is better.

are you saying that our current immigration laws are too strict? please tell me that's not what you meant...

Well, if not, then why are they taking desperate measures to get here and hide. If it was easier, I am sure they would do it the legal way...why wouldn't they?

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: palehorse74are you saying that our current immigration laws are too strict? please tell me that's not what you meant...

I suspect they are too strict. Certanly in the opinion of the government, or else the government would enforce them.

 

[lorinser75]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: palehorse74are you saying that our current immigration laws are too strict? please tell me that's not what you meant...

I suspect they are too strict. Certanly in the opinion of the government, or else the government would enforce them.

Well Strict or Not strict, that doesn't give the immigrants the right to be illegal, IMHO

 

[piasabird]

They are begging us to deport them!!!!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
landmines and a wall with very few doors.

Take all the ones already here, that we can find, and send them home. then shut down the borders by any/all means necessary. Anyone else caught trying to come in will be put into chain-gangs helping to build the walls and fences. they will not be paid, and will be let go on the OTHER side of the fence once construction is complete. Feed them MRE's and water, nothing more. (EDIT: oh ya, any US employer caught with illegal workers can join them on the chain-gang too!)

j/k... but I sure as hell dont want ILLEGAL aliens in this country any more. They can come in legally, or not at all.

Very interesting idea re the chaingangs and the wall.

However, we don't need any sort of forced labor or even that much money to build the wall! We'd just need someone to provide the necessary equipment and supplies. Americans would then turn out in mass, voluntarily, to do the work. [Edit] All we really need is for the federal government to authorize it. I wouldn't be surprised if the supplies and equipment were donated along with all of the labor.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: marincounty

I am convinced the only way the right will be happy with this issue is if we allow unlimited immigration as long as they are willing to work cheap. Anything less hurts America.

I hope this was tongue in cheek. If we really did as you suggested the nation's population would skyrocket to 1 billion and the lower middle class would get impoverished along with many people in the middle class. Don't even mention the environmental problems it would cause and the amount of overcrowding and homelessness we would have in our cities.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: palehorse74
landmines and a wall with very few doors.

Take all the ones already here, that we can find, and send them home. then shut down the borders by any/all means necessary. Anyone else caught trying to come in will be put into chain-gangs helping to build the walls and fences. they will not be paid, and will be let go on the OTHER side of the fence once construction is complete. Feed them MRE's and water, nothing more. (EDIT: oh ya, any US employer caught with illegal workers can join them on the chain-gang too!)

j/k... but I sure as hell dont want ILLEGAL aliens in this country any more. They can come in legally, or not at all.

Very interesting idea re the chaingangs and the wall.

However, we don't need any sort of forced labor or even that much money to build the wall! We'd just need someone to provide the necessary equipment and supplies. Americans would then turn out in mass, voluntarily, to do the work.

then how come it cost $20 million to build the 700-ft fence south of San Diego? We'll need all of the chain-gangs, trust me...

That is, unless there is a large movement that rallies everyone to a "build-the-wall festival"... GL with that!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

That is, unless there is a large movement that rallies everyone to a "build-the-wall festival"... GL with that!

That's insane. I also look at the cost for road construction and wonder how we ever ended up having so many paved roads in this country.

I would hope that $20 million would provide 700 miles worth of concrete.

Of course a patrolled wall is just part of the solution. We also need heavy-duty penalties for businesses that knowingly or recklessly employ illegals and a modification to the Constitution to state that children born to mothers who are in the nation illegally are not citizens.

 

[Accipiter22]

Originally posted by: lorinser75

good post; but like you said these people have to prove they're worthy of entering America....is that a bad thing???? I don't think we'd see France level violence, that's created by a group of impoverished people who are having their rights in their own country taken away. This would be aimed at people who aren't even supposed to be here. America's a great country, that's why the line's so long. It's worth the wait. You can't just say 'well the line's long I'm cutting in line' so to speak.

I never thought I'd align with conservatives on any issue.

Good post. I couldn't agree more.
I'm an immigrant. I came to US initially as a Student, and After I graduated, I started working in US, starting from OPT (optional Practical training Visa - valid only for 1 year) and working my way up to H1-B visa. After a few years, now I'm finaly eligible to apply for PR (permanent resident) status. Basically, I followed the SYSTEM (no matter how F$%Ked up it is) and NO matter how LONG is the WAIT (it could be another 5 years or more before I can actually receive my PR, not Citizenship mind you), It's WORTH it, because I know AMERICA is a great country and a great place to live in. Even my wife, who wasn't that lucky because she couldn't find a sponsor, knows that we just have to keep trying and persevere, even though it means that she couldn't work for years until I receive my PR.

NOW, how do you think I feel about those protests? Set aside your political views, and try to think how the legal immigrants feel who by the way, are STILL fighting the system just to be able to stay and live here.

Exactly, I was hoping an immigrant would reply to this thread. It's GOT to be insulting to listen to people doing this illegally complaining.

To the people defending the illegal immigrants, how would you like it if someone came to where you work, and said 'well there's a line for the copier, I'm just not going to copy those reports I was told to' or 'well I don't like the way things are run around here, so I'm going to do my job differently, and everyone else has to like it, and if enough people do it, then you'll all have to accept it'