OK, I been thinking... exactly when was America "great?"

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The 50's were pretty good. The American dream was alive and well. Housing was affordable. Kids were relatively safe. You could buy a new car if you saved for a year. Business was booming. Anything was possible.
There was also plenty of prejudice, national fear created by stupid government and, hate mongering.

 

[Texashiker]

I bet 50% of your posts are insults. Piss poor third grade ones at that.

Thank you. Zinfamous has a reputation of making statements, but never backing those statements up.

 

[Texashiker]

You have no reason to think that I only studied it in school. Very presumptuous and your taking a stab at me before saying anything more marginalizes your position before you began making it.

Still waiting on you to post pics of some of your history books.

Let me guess, you are waiting on them to arrive with next day shipping from Amazon prime?

I'll get some of my books and post pics while we wait for yours.

 

[Texashiker]

@Muse This is:

The Neanderthals Rediscovered by Dimitra Papagianni and Michael Morse
Technology in the Ancient World by Henry Hodges
Civil War by Burke Davis
Nameless Towns Texas Sawmill Communities by Thad Sitton and James Conrad <------ Excellent read.
Caesar life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy <--- long but well worth the read.
The Untold Civil War by James Robertson
The Black Death by Johannes Nohl
Walden - edited by Jeffery Cramer
Life in a Medieval Village by Frances and Joseph Gies <---- One of the best books in my collection.
The Little Ice Age by Brian Fagan
Legionary the roman soldiers unoffical manual by Thames Hudson

That covers around 30,000 years of history.

Not pictured:

Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose <--- borrowed to read
Benjamin Franklin a biography <--- borrowed to read
Various literature and history books, some of them have been lost over the years.
Life in a Medieval City by Frances and Joseph Gies
Life in a Medieval Castle by Frances and Joseph Gies
Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell
Civilization of the middle ages by Norman Cantor - got bored and stopped reading.

That is part of my book collection. Would you like me to keep going?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I bet 50% of your posts are insults. Piss poor third grade ones at that.

Jackass

 

[Victorian Gray]

Thank you. Zinfamous has a reputation of making statements, but never backing those statements up.

ROFL

 

[JSt0rm]

My personal opinion, we get ready to take it up the ass from China.

I feel China is now where we were in the 1970s. They underwent some of the largest construction projects the world has ever seen, such as the three gorges dam, China has ghost cities that nobody lives in, and now they are looking to expand.

Over the years there has been speculation that the economy if China was going to crash when it ran out of stuff to build. That is probably why they are building in Africa.

China is paying for massive ports to be built in Africa. They are buying old oil refineries and rebuilding them with chinese labor. African nations are taking out loans from China, and then are unable to pay back those loans.

This video details how China is building Africa.

This is going to give China access to massive amounts of raw materials to continue its nation building.

In short, we have been left in the dust. China has access to cutting edge technology without ever having to innovate. For example, Cisco routers are made in China. Smart phones are made in China...

We gave China everything they needed to dominate the world economic markets, and they are taking advantage of it.

Why? 300 million people in the middle class over there and they all want American products. You guys think for you to do good they have to do bad and that’s just false.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Why? 300 million people in the middle class over there and they all want American products. You guys think for you to do good they have to do bad and that’s just false.

Apparently you have to be afraid of *something* otherwise being alive just isn't worth the effort. Sad people. Very sad.

 

[Muse]

American has been great each and every single day since July 4, 1776.

Depends on your point of view. There's plenty that's gone on that's too shitty for words, mon.

 

[Muse]

It may have been really great before smallpox and imperialist conquests.

That's the answer. But of course, it was not Vespuciland then, it was just the earth below and sky above the braves, squaws and their kids. The Great Spirit held sway. First world problems were unimaginable. Then came the people on ships and greatness was very soon hard to find in America!

 

[Muse]

Still waiting on you to post pics of some of your history books.

Let me guess, you are waiting on them to arrive with next day shipping from Amazon prime?

I'll get some of my books and post pics while we wait for yours.

Fuck you, dingbat. I hadn't seen your stupid post. Most of the history books I read after school came from my public library. I returned them on time. Now fuck off.

 

[bradly1101]

'Great' is just a self-created pride mechanism. Much of the globe's horrors; war, disenfranchisement, the environment (+ spurring others to follow), ... it all has American fingerprints. Now we're going to undue climate change a hundred years too late? Shall we fix it for everyone else too? No prob.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Depends --- some people would say that America was great exactly the moment the Fleshlight was invented......that goes without saying...….
I would say GREAT is a word that depends on how the people of a given country treat other people from other countries....

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yeah, when?

I can't think of an era. I took American history courses, I've been here a while, have striven to inform myself in a variety of ways.

Was it Tom Brokaw who coined the term, "the greatest generation?" What was so damn great about America 1941-1945? Yeah, we stopped the Axis nations, but life sucked, it was terrible. Able bodied men were sent off the war all over the planet, women were pressed into service in the factories. Staples were rationed. Millions were being butchered all over the planet. Life sucked.

Pre WW II, it was isolationism. Prohibition failed, hypocrisy was everywhere. There was the Great Depression. Sucked!

Before that, the robber barons of capitalism. The industrial revolution set us on a course to ruin the planet. Then the war to end all wars, WW I, followed by the Spanish flu, prohibition, the Great depression.

Mid 19th century America was a time I would not want to have lived. It was relatively barbaric as we plundered the land and mistreated a major portion of the populace in ways that boggle the mind. Before that, well, it was practically prehistoric.

Post WW II was a dull period of psychological depression called the 1950s.

After that was the swingin' 60's, but whoa! The Vietnam War, the conflict in the streets, the protest movement aspect of America being seriously embedded in the national consciousness. America did not escape from its psychological/cultural/political chains.

The 1970's we witnessed the cooptation of all that was positive about the 1960's and the birth of more radical subcultures based on rejection of everything before.

The 1980's we had the me generation, gag me with a spoon.

The 1990's we had political polarization that turns your stomach and it's only gotten worse.

The 21st century has revealed that mankind is self destructing and the USA is abdicating its leadership position in moving forward in a positive way.

Great again? What mularky!

Actually, I agree with most of what you say. If Obama was "my" president, I was only a sliver of slightly crestfallen when I heard him throw up the political symbol of "American exceptionalism." Maybe he actually believes it himself, but it was as much a sop to the conservatives and Republicans who really believe that we're somehow superior to other countries, and cultures regardless of their political systems.

That's about what we have going for us -- our political system allows us some consensus that authority is temporarily legitimate. But a winning majority is neither always right in its choice, nor right about everything all of the time.

I think, however, that the "greatest generation" myth, as much as it is a myth, has some validity.

And as someone who walked between the raindrops to avoid Vietnam by staying in school, my generation was partly responsible for eliminating the draft. I think the elimination of the draft has contributed to both our political polarization, the urban-rural split which is a part of that polarity, and the looney-toons drift of some 30 to 40 percent of the population into totally delusional thinking that is not entirely sane.

IF there were a draft, urban and rural populations would have more interaction. Right now, the military is probably a major choice for young people in red-state America, which only provides 38% of US GDP.

There needs to be some sort of mandatory public service, perhaps between high-school and college. Just a thought I have about this, and any discussion would be useful.

Maybe if Trump had not avoided Vietnam, he would've been killed ( a good thing), or transformed into a better person than the second-generation tax-fraud, racist and criminal that he is.

And the Greatest Generation? My uncle and my father were part of it. My uncle flew a B-29 from Tinian Island -- # 82. But those guys were not exactly heroes. My uncle was no hero. Most of those guys in the 509th Atom Bomb Squadron became terrible alcoholics. George Wallace was also in the 509th, and my redneck uncle thought he was just a wonderful guy. Both my uncle and Wallace were Sons-a-Bitches, although that's not fair to my sainted grandmother and her suffering.

 

[sportage]

Lets look at why America is NOT so great.

Could it be, oh say.....
Terrorism?
Welfare?
Illegal immigration?
Abortion?
Religion, or the lack of?
Banking regulation?
Taxes?
Infrastructure?
Healthcare?

Or, could it just possible be.... OUR POLITICIANS?
Our politicians, going back decades.
Politicians like Chuck Grassley and Mitch McConnell and Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi.
In other words, ""The career politician"".
If things are so dysfunctional and partisan and hopeless, I think we all know the true problem here.
The really old career politicians that made their lifetime out of politics.
And naturally, they will undoubtedly become corrupt, owned, controlled, and completely useless to the electorate that put them in there.
AND.... ignorant of THE PEOPLE.

Sadly, THE PEOPLE are helpless to do anything about this because, the people keep voting these A-holes into office, decade after decade, because those career politicians themselves have structured and perverted the system to ensure they are reelected time after time.
Chuck Grassley is what, 195 years old? And old fart Grassley was first elected into congress back when he was what? 15 years old?
And the same with Mitch McConnell, and Pelosi, and Feinstein, and so so many others.

America's problems are not so complicated as we might believe.
Image, 90% of our problems from illegal immigration to healthcare could be solved overnight by simply getting rid of these corrupt, wealthy, self-serving career politicians.
And.... the best way would be by simple TERM LIMITS.
But THAT will never happen.... WHY?
Because these career politicians control THAT as well.
See how it works? Smell the corruption?
And people thought all we needed was a big-ass wall. Go Figure.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Just prior to WW2 up through when we put a man on the moon was the greatest America, the age of the greatest generation.

 

[Muse]

I bet 50% of your posts are insults. Piss poor third grade ones at that.

Actually he's exceptionally good at insulting people! IMO he's the best here. He'll rake you over the coals in a second. Takes no prisoners.

Thank you. Zinfamous has a reputation of making statements, but never backing those statements up.

Who are you to characterize another Anandtecher's reputation? He's a different breed from you. You can't fathom it.

 

[Muse]

The 50's were pretty good. The American dream was alive and well. Housing was affordable. Kids were relatively safe. You could buy a new car if you saved for a year. Business was booming. Anything was possible.
There was also plenty of prejudice, national fear created by stupid government and, hate mongering.

IMO the 1950's sucked. People were repressed. Elvis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, a handful of other musicians were a revelation because the rest of the popular culture was so uptight. Drug use was totally underground. People were sexually repressed in a major way. Popular culture was straightsville. You could buy a car, but what were you getting? A V6 or a V8 and the models changed year to year, it was nutty. Have a look at the car models, how the car bodies changed drastically year to year! They looked insane with those tail fins.

Russia launched a satellite before we did and everyone panicked... we're way behind!

In school at any moment you might get a duck and cover drill for a nuclear holocaust in the making. Yeah, an H bomb just dropped on your town, you were supposed to imagine! The cold war was never colder. Dr. Strangelove (a very 1960's movie) marked a huge shift in consciousness.

 

[HomerJS]

I really wish people would educate themselves. Great strides were being made for all races, and not just whites.

The welfare state is probably one of the greatest crimes ever committed against blacks. Before the welfare state, and the civil rights act, minorities were making great strides in bettering their communities.

Then the government came in and offered to help, and everything fell apart.

Riddle me this, what would you call someone criticized the Civil Rights Act as detrimental to blacks, the law which banned segregation and discrimination based on race??

 

[Muse]

Actually, I agree with most of what you say. If Obama was "my" president, I was only a sliver of slightly crestfallen when I heard him throw up the political symbol of "American exceptionalism." Maybe he actually believes it himself, but it was as much a sop to the conservatives and Republicans who really believe that we're somehow superior to other countries, and cultures regardless of their political systems.

That's about what we have going for us -- our political system allows us some consensus that authority is temporarily legitimate. But a winning majority is neither always right in its choice, nor right about everything all of the time.

I think, however, that the "greatest generation" myth, as much as it is a myth, has some validity.

And as someone who walked between the raindrops to avoid Vietnam by staying in school, my generation was partly responsible for eliminating the draft. I think the elimination of the draft has contributed to both our political polarization, the urban-rural split which is a part of that polarity, and the looney-toons drift of some 30 to 40 percent of the population into totally delusional thinking that is not entirely sane.

IF there were a draft, urban and rural populations would have more interaction. Right now, the military is probably a major choice for young people in red-state America, which only provides 38% of US GDP.

There needs to be some sort of mandatory public service, perhaps between high-school and college. Just a thought I have about this, and any discussion would be useful.

Maybe if Trump had not avoided Vietnam, he would've been killed ( a good thing), or transformed into a better person than the second-generation tax-fraud, racist and criminal that he is.

And the Greatest Generation? My uncle and my father were part of it. My uncle flew a B-29 from Tinian Island -- # 82. But those guys were not exactly heroes. My uncle was no hero. Most of those guys in the 509th Atom Bomb Squadron became terrible alcoholics. George Wallace was also in the 509th, and my redneck uncle thought he was just a wonderful guy. Both my uncle and Wallace were Sons-a-Bitches, although that's not fair to my sainted grandmother and her suffering.

That's an interesting idea I haven't encountered before, that a draft would benefit the country. I think it merits consideration. Of course, I'm beyond draft age, so my opinion could be considered tainted.

I wanted no part of the Vietnam war, the last thing I wanted to do was pick up a gun and stomp through the swamps of Vietnam hunting a shadowy enemy in their own domain. I instinctively found it anathema. I also lived where most everyone seemed to share my position. Between a medical condition and school I avoided the draft, but I did have a draft physical.

Mandatory military service exists in Israel and I think it arguably solidifies public involvement, unification.

All the men in my family of service age during WW II did serve, to my knowledge. My sense of it with regard to my father is that it took a big toll on him. He wasn't physically injured, AFAIK, but a relative said that he wasn't the same upbeat guy when he came back from 2 years service in Burma fighting in the jungle. I think I sensed all that when I was faced with the prospect of being drafted. Fighting in Vietnam was a very different thing than fighting for the Allies in WW II. Kind of like polar opposites. The Axis powers were threatening world domination. The Vietcong were nothing of the sort.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just prior to WW2 up through when we put a man on the moon was the greatest America, the age of the greatest generation.

How would you know? Did you live it?

 

[Jhhnn]

Fighting in Vietnam was a very different thing than fighting for the Allies in WW II. Kind of like polar opposites. The Axis powers were threatening world domination. The Vietcong were nothing of the sort.

It was all about the domino theory of international Communism taking over the world, not about the Vietnamese ejecting the vestiges of colonialism.

 

[Texashiker]

Fuck you, dingbat. I hadn't seen your stupid post. Most of the history books I read after school came from my public library. I returned them on time. Now fuck off.

Nice response.

You have a library card then? Date stamp with your library card?

 

[Texashiker]

Riddle me this, what would you call someone criticized the Civil Rights Act as detrimental to blacks, the law which banned segregation and discrimination based on race??

I am glad you asked.

This is my opinion.

Before the civil rights act minorities, especially blacks, were making great strides. Crime was down, unemployment was declining, and number of children raised in one parent households had been declining for years.

What happens if you take someone who is working hard to get something, and hand it to them.

Let's say you are working lots of overtime to pay off your home. Someone comes in and says, "You should not have to work overtime, so I am going to pay your home off for you." Will you still work overtime? Probably not, at least not like you were.

Starting in the late 1960s, right around 1968, things changed in the black community; crime, unemployment, children raised in one parent homes... all went up. People blame it on Nixon's policies on crime, but the changes started before Nixons policies on crime were presented to congress.

What happened around 1964 - 1968? Civil rights act, and welfare reform. In short, you no longer have to work to better yourself because the government will take care of you.

Was the civil rights act even needed? I do not know. Minorities had been making progress for decades. Eventually, things would have worked through the court system and the supreme court would rule all people are created equal, and we all deserve equal protection.

There had also been a change in the supreme court. In the early 1900s, the court paved the way for people to be sterilized against their will, and certain groups to be detained against their will and without due process.

One of the worst things to ever happen to this nation was for the supreme court to deny rights of certain groups. This is everything from slavery, to forced sterilization, to FDR sending people to camps. Rather than passing a law that protected certain groups (civil rights act), the supreme court should have done their job and protected everyone equally.


If General Antonio López de Santa Anna had willingly given Texas away, do you think Texans would be more or less proud of their heritage? Probably less proud. Why? Because our ancestors fought and died to win their freedom.

I feel the civil rights act stole some of the glory and satisfaction from the black community. The nation was already headed in the right direction. LBJ saw a way to get blacks to vote democrat, and he took it.

 

[Texashiker]

People were sexually repressed in a major way. Popular culture was straightsville.

You act like that is a bad thing.

What happened when we left "straightsville"? No fault divorces went up, which led to children being raised in broken homes, which led to increased juvenile crimes, which led to higher crime rates.

Why is HIV an epidemic? Lots of people having gay sex and drug use.

We need to go back to straightsville, raise children in secure homes, and this nation would be much better off.