Oil recomendations...I'm clueless

[ManBearPig]

Hello, I got a 2007 camry around may of 2007, and i've had one oil change. I'm due for another, but i've got no effing clue what type of oil to use.

The first oil change was 5w20, but (and im not positive, dont have the owners manual wit me atm) i think the recommended oil is 0w20. Are these both synthetic oils? Or can they be either or? The way i understand it, lower weights are better for colder climates and give a marginally better fuel economy (dont really care but it'd be nice, im sure its negligible).

Either way, which should i get, and if there is a synthetic and non synthetic, which type should i use?

thanks AT!

 

[zerocool84]

Use whatever your owners manual says. No way to go wrong with that. They know better than we do. They built the car.

 

[DOTC]

well.. i think they want to make money in the long run. I'm not sure they would really recommend the best for the car. Depends on stop and go driving.. heat.. etc.

 

[alpineranger]

The recommendations are conservative and aren't optimal for all conditions. Depending on how and where you drive, you could do better with other oil weights. The way to know for sure is to do tests with oil analysis. Generally, 0W-20 will warm up to proper viscosity faster than 5W-20 so that's better for warm up wear. However, if you push your engine hard (high load, high rpms, high temperature), you'd want the high temperature viscosity of 5W-20. If you drive gently and aren't in the desert in the summer, 0W-20 may well be a better choice.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

so if my v6accord is 90% driven in 1000-3000rpm on local streets which oil is best? Honda rec. Is 5w-20

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: DOTC
well.. i think they want to make money in the long run. I'm not sure they would really recommend the best for the car. Depends on stop and go driving.. heat.. etc.

Considering that car companies aren't oil companies, and besides all the different grades cost the same, it's pretty pointless to assume that they are going to recommend something that's suboptimal. If it was part of some vast conspiracy to cause you to buy more cars, they'd recommend never changing your oil at all.

Car companies recommend what's best almost all the time. Yes, it depends on how you use your car, but since they need to make their product appear more fuel efficient and reliable than the other guy's, they're going to pick a grade which will work for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
so if my v6accord is 90% driven in 1000-3000rpm on local streets which oil is best? Honda rec. Is 5w-20

Temperature matters more when choosing oil grades, type of driving matters more when choosing an oil change interval. The owner's manual tends to have a listing of what temperature range works with each recommended grade of oil. As for the oil change interval, for 90% short-distance city driving, I would probably stick to a 5k interval. The owner's manual should have this information as well, generally broken up into a recommended interval for "regular" driving or "severe service", along with a description of each. What you describe will probably fall under "severe service".

 

[mwmorph]

Not sure where you live but I'd use 0W20 if I could get away with it. Lower weight means less density when the crankshaft has to plow through it in the oil pan and thus higher hp and marginally more mpg. The Camry 2AZ-FE gained 1 hp from 2006 to 2007 switching from recommended 5W to 0W, the Scion TC using the same motor gained 4hp also.

The crankshaft rotating through oil actually accounts for a fair bit of lost power, that's why race cars and performance engines such as the Audi RS4/R8 4.2L V8are dry sump systems. Theres double digit horsepower numbers to be found to switching to dry sump. (source: my Autotech teacher that ran VW race cars back in the day)

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
The crankshaft rotating through oil actually accounts for a fair bit of lost power, that's why race cars and performance engines such as the Audi RS4/R8 4.2L V8are dry sump systems. Theres double digit horsepower numbers to be found to switching to dry sump. (source: my Autotech teacher that ran VW race cars back in the day)

That doesn't make sense to me. It's still the same viscosity of oil, the difference is just that a dry sump system is better able to take the G-forces that racing conditions will subject it to without the oil getting to places it shouldn't.

 

[herm0016]

no modern engine has the crank shaft "plowing through" the oil. its all a pressurized system. I like to use 5-w30 in the winter and 10-30 synthetic blend oil. dino oil has a lot more variation in viscosity because of temp than synthetc does. but full syn is more likly to leak out any seals that are wore even a little bit.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: mwmorph
The crankshaft rotating through oil actually accounts for a fair bit of lost power, that's why race cars and performance engines such as the Audi RS4/R8 4.2L V8are dry sump systems. Theres double digit horsepower numbers to be found to switching to dry sump. (source: my Autotech teacher that ran VW race cars back in the day)

That doesn't make sense to me. It's still the same viscosity of oil, the difference is just that a dry sump system is better able to take the G-forces that racing conditions will subject it to without the oil getting to places it shouldn't.

See below, the crankshaft no longer has to move through the oil, splashing it around.

Also 5W-20 is higher viscosity than 0W-20. The numbers stand for
0W is the viscosity when cold
20 is the viscosity when hot(100* C I believe)

And then curve them, therefore the 0W20 will have a slightly lower viscosity throughout the range until they match up at 20 at 100*C, the biggest difference will be when it's cold but there is still a decreasing difference as it warms up.

Originally posted by: herm0016
no modern engine has the crank shaft "plowing through" the oil. its all a pressurized system. I like to use 5-w30 in the winter and 10-30 synthetic blend oil. dino oil has a lot more variation in viscosity because of temp than synthetc does. but full syn is more likly to leak out any seals that are wore even a little bit.

Just about every wet sump motor, when each cylinder gets close to BDC(Bottom dead center) the crankshaft becomes immersed in oil. It lubricates the main journals and bearings and some of the splash helps lubricate the bottom of the pistons on some cars, though I'm pretty sure in newer cars, it's a pressure system for lubricating the bottom of the piston and wrist pin.

I'm not sure what you think I meant. Plow probably wasn't the best word for it but "splash through" didn't seem to make sense and it was 4am when I posted.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question331.htm

Excess oil around the crankshaft in a wet sump can get on the shaft and cut horsepower. Some people claim improvements of as much as 15 horsepower by switching to a dry sump.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-l.../library/sump_dry.html

A normal oil system is referred to as a "wet sump" system because the lower ends of the connecting rods occasionally splash some oil up to lubricate the bottoms of the cylinders through splashing! A "dry sump" system keeps the rod ends out of the oil (power loss due to friction!) and has an external tank (and pump, perhaps) to move oil to the main oil pump and, hence, to the bearings under pressure. No power loss due to engine parts trying to move through oil!

But I can assure you, yes there are parasitic losses associated with wet sumping. It doesn't seem like much, but you have to remember, fluid resistance goes up by the exponentially compared to velocity, and thus the crankshaft rotating at a few thousand rpms encounters quite a bit of resistance.

 

[bruceb]

I agree .. There are losses with a wet sump oil system as well as the potential
for oil aeration at high rpm. That is way all race cars use a multistage dry sump
system. It also helps to scavenge oil during hard cornering, braking & accelearation
something a wet sump system can not do. As to the OP's initial question, use whatever
is marked on either the Oil Fill cap or the label under the hood or in your owner's manual.
Synthetic is the best, but is a bit more costly. As to oil weight 5W30 will be fine unless you
live in an extremley cold climate, like Canada or Alaska, where I would go with 0W30
You can use that here if you want in the winter, but it would be overkill.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
so if my v6accord is 90% driven in 1000-3000rpm on local streets which oil is best? Honda rec. Is 5w-20

Temperature matters more when choosing oil grades, type of driving matters more when choosing an oil change interval. The owner's manual tends to have a listing of what temperature range works with each recommended grade of oil. As for the oil change interval, for 90% short-distance city driving, I would probably stick to a 5k interval. The owner's manual should have this information as well, generally broken up into a recommended interval for "regular" driving or "severe service", along with a description of each. What you describe will probably fall under "severe service".

the temps i range in are: 15-40F in the winter and 50-85F in the summer

i live in brooklyn, NYC and do mainly local stop and go traffic every few hundred feet.
currently using 5w-20 (honda rec) Mobil 1 synthetic oil all year round

will using 0w-20 in the summer be better? will it damage the engine/other parts?

 

[Jeff7181]

Something else to keep in mind when selecting oil... the first number in a multi-grade oil is the viscosity when cold. In other words, this is the weight of the base oil. The second number is what weight that oil acts like when it's hot due to viscosity modifiers. When your oil gets old and the additives break down, your oil will have a lower viscosity at high temperatures and not offer as much protection.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
so if my v6accord is 90% driven in 1000-3000rpm on local streets which oil is best? Honda rec. Is 5w-20

Temperature matters more when choosing oil grades, type of driving matters more when choosing an oil change interval. The owner's manual tends to have a listing of what temperature range works with each recommended grade of oil. As for the oil change interval, for 90% short-distance city driving, I would probably stick to a 5k interval. The owner's manual should have this information as well, generally broken up into a recommended interval for "regular" driving or "severe service", along with a description of each. What you describe will probably fall under "severe service".

the temps i range in are: 15-40F in the winter and 50-85F in the summer

i live in brooklyn, NYC and do mainly local stop and go traffic every few hundred feet.
currently using 5w-20 (honda rec) Mobil 1 synthetic oil all year round

will using 0w-20 in the summer be better? will it damage the engine/other parts?

Just use 5w-20 year round. The difference isn't huge, and you don't want to DECREASE the cold viscosity rating unless you're dealing with really cold temperatures. So if you were to use 0w-20 part of the year and 5w-20 the rest, you'd be using 5w-20 in the summer.

When in doubt, remember that using too thick of an oil will rob performance and mileage, but using too thin of an oil might cause metal-metal contact and engine damage. Just use the recommended viscosity, unless you live where it gets REALLY cold and you have trouble starting it in the morning.

 

[zerocool84]

Yes just use what is recommended in your owners manual.

 

[alpineranger]

You can't go wrong/won't damage anything with the manufacturer's recommendation, but you might do better. Car companies have to account for a wide variety of usage scenarios and even differences in same weight oil from different companies. 0W-20 will actually be thicker oil than 5W-20 at high temperatures, and will definitely be thinner at low temperatures (but still too thick to prevent wear like warmed up oil). I have never seen a non synthetic 0W-20 however so minimum cost will be higher than for 5W-20.

Personally I think that 0W-20 is worth a shot for you but you need to have oil analysis data from both the 5W-20 and 0W-20 you use. It's a small change so even if it isn;t right for you you'll wear the engine more but not for long and nothing catastrophic.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: alpineranger
0W-20 will actually be thicker oil than 5W-20 at high temperatures,

This one you'll have to explain to me.

 

[boomerang]

These discussion have always, and still, continue to amaze me. The only advice you've gotten that's worth listening to is the few people that told you to put in what Toyota recommends.

Anyone with a degree in mechanical engineering and experience in the design and manufacture of modern automobile engines, please chime in with your thoughts on what oil to use in a plain vanilla passenger car used within the scope of its intended design - driving people from point A to point B.

This is not a high-performance car being driven in a racing environment.

As a side note, barring access to your owners manual, the recommended weight of oil is embossed on the filler cap. Shocking but true.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: alpineranger
0W-20 will actually be thicker oil than 5W-20 at high temperatures,

This one you'll have to explain to me.

Hehe... he won't be able to because it's not true.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: boomerang
These discussion have always, and still, continue to amaze me. The only advice you've gotten that's worth listening to is the few people that told you to put in what Toyota recommends.

Anyone with a degree in mechanical engineering and experience in the design and manufacture of modern automobile engines, please chime in with your thoughts on what oil to use in a plain vanilla passenger car used within the scope of its intended design - driving people from point A to point B.

This is not a high-performance car being driven in a racing environment.

As a side note, barring access to your owners manual, the recommended weight of oil is embossed on the filler cap. Shocking but true.

This is a tech forum filled with techies. If you don't want any technical explanation or discussion, find a forum for stay-at-home mom's and ask them what instant oil change place they use.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: boomerang
These discussion have always, and still, continue to amaze me. The only advice you've gotten that's worth listening to is the few people that told you to put in what Toyota recommends.

Anyone with a degree in mechanical engineering and experience in the design and manufacture of modern automobile engines, please chime in with your thoughts on what oil to use in a plain vanilla passenger car used within the scope of its intended design - driving people from point A to point B.

This is not a high-performance car being driven in a racing environment.

As a side note, barring access to your owners manual, the recommended weight of oil is embossed on the filler cap. Shocking but true.

This is a tech forum filled with techies. If you don't want any technical explanation or discussion, find a forum for stay-at-home mom's and ask them what instant oil change place they use.

The guy is asking what oil to use in his car and he's getting explanations of dry sumps, HP reductions due to crankshafts rotating through oil and how by doing whatever he can get 4 extra horsepower, etc., etc.

Yes, it's a techie forum and I'm as techie as the rest of you, but these answers just confuse people with simple questions. Questions that don't require techie answers.

Now you know why I posted what I posted.

Most of these posts amount to blowhards expounding on some shit they read in a magazine that has absolutely no bearing on 100% of the people that drive their cars on the street.

The end result, the poor slob with the question is even more confused than he was before.

FWIW, I had no problem with any of your posts in this thread. You have the right to defend this thread and the posts contained in it. Conversely, I can make my comments too, but I'm just trying to help out the poor soul with the question.

 

[Jeff7181]

The question was answered. Use what the manual says. The rest is just discussion between other members, just as this is discussion between you and I and is not intended to answer the OP's question.

 

[thecritic]

Either is fine. The 0w-20 will flow more rapidly than the 5w-20 at very cold temperatures.

5w-20 is less expensive than 0w-20. 0w-20 is only available as a full synthetic.

Also, if you have a 2007 Camry 4-cyl, be sure to get the ECU reflash done at the dealership to improve the throttle response. Lots of owners have complained about the lag during acceleration. Toyota released new software in Aug 2007 that has completely cured the problem after several tries.

 

[Apex]

No oil is thin enough to protect at cold startup, regardless of how warm the ambient temperature is. Period.

Given the same HTHS and real viscosity at warm levels, 0w-20 is superior to 5w-20 for engine protection.