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Oil / Food

wpshooter

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2004
1,624
2
81
Those countries over in the middle east & the oil companies may be raking the rest of the world over the coals NOW with the ridiculous prices that they are charging for petroleum products, BUT when the day comes that they run out of oil over there, lets see how much grain and food products they can grow in all that SAND over there !!!!!
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,583
431
126
I guess that's why they're heavily investing in things that last, like real estate in North America and Europe?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
I think the US will. The ME has long known that if it screws its customer base over too long, it will lose customers. If this country actually had any good guidance, the leadership would already be using this as a reason to support a vast and aggressive energy-independent program.

Although other factors influence high oil prices at the moment, the long and short of it is that many countries in the ME have little to offer except for their oil, so their countries are heavily propped up by their customer base of nations that actually do produce.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
A lot of manure and water can turn sand into a garden.

At present they have the $$ to do so. Do they have the foresight
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,154
206
106
Originally posted by: wpshooter
Those countries over in the middle east & the oil companies may be raking the rest of the world over the coals NOW with the ridiculous prices that they are charging for petroleum products, BUT when the day comes that they run out of oil over there, lets see how much grain and food products they can grow in all that SAND over there !!!!!
Without their Oil we can't harvest/produce enough for ourselves as we can't use the diesel powered planters or harvesters. This isn't something that will happen soon, nor is it something we want to have happen soon.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
One good thing with high oil prices is that the oil reserves in Canada (second only to Saudi Arabia) can be fully developed and more exploration done to find more. As I understand it, the bulk of Canada's oil is in the oil/tar sands which is the most expensive oil to produce in the world. Already major oil sand companies are working to double or triple production, if oil prices remain at this price then the boom will continue with further expansion, exploitation and exploration. I'm not even sure if oil sands oil is counted as oil exports to the USA because of some weird classification.

We are currently the #1 exporter to the USA in oil, though we import some oil as well. With the right price we could be supplying the USA enough oil for them to pick and chose where else they get their oil.

So if you (the USA) want oil independence (unless you have something against Canada) then hope the current oil prices stay because I'm not seeing anything beyond token research -edit- into alternative (and practical) energy being done.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
3
0
Yes, its about time Canada turned into a polluted wasteland.
I hereby demand Canada produce all the oil the US wants out of their tar/oil shale.
After all, if Canada won't comply, we will just invade and take over and make Canada the 51st state.
And then we would be polluting OUR country.
Now the only question is which or all of the Great Lakes we will drain so we will have enough water to extract the oil?
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
Originally posted by: techs
Yes, its about time Canada turned into a polluted wasteland.
I hereby demand Canada produce all the oil the US wants out of their tar/oil shale.
After all, if Canada won't comply, we will just invade and take over and make Canada the 51st state.
And then we would be polluting OUR country.
Now the only question is which or all of the Great Lakes we will drain so we will have enough water to extract the oil?
I'm guessing you haven't seen the oil sands before.

There is nothing special up there. It's no worse then clear cutting when trees are replanted.

I think it might even be better in the long run for the environment, the oil sands are just below the surface, you see the oil oozing out into the rivers and on the ground in some places and I mean naturally.

There is also the government policy of restoring the dig sites back to how they where before, they have bison herds (those fenced in) on reclaimed patches of land. Some of the older restored sites you would never know where once a open pit mine.

If they so much as spill a gallon of gas on the ground they have to do a clean up. Rather ironic as the ground was full of oil before.

The only long term negative impact is new cities, towns and roads and as I said there is nothing special up there, no species or habitats that will be destroyed as a result of these things.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
3
0
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Originally posted by: techs
Yes, its about time Canada turned into a polluted wasteland.
I hereby demand Canada produce all the oil the US wants out of their tar/oil shale.
After all, if Canada won't comply, we will just invade and take over and make Canada the 51st state.
And then we would be polluting OUR country.
Now the only question is which or all of the Great Lakes we will drain so we will have enough water to extract the oil?
I'm guessing you haven't seen the oil sands before.

There is nothing special up there. It's no worse then clear cutting when trees are replanted.

I think it might even be better in the long run for the environment, the oil sands are just below the surface, you see the oil oozing out into the rivers and on the ground in some places and I mean naturally.

There is also the government policy of restoring the dig sites back to how they where before, they have bison herds (those fenced in) on reclaimed patches of land. Some of the older restored sites you would never know where once a open pit mine.

If they so much as spill a gallon of gas on the ground they have to do a clean up. Rather ironic as the ground was full of oil before.

The only long term negative impact is new cities, towns and roads and as I said there is nothing special up there, no species or habitats that will be destroyed as a result of these things.
Wiki and you shall find:
Concerns have been expressed over the oil shale industry's use of water. This is a particularly sensitive issue in the arid regions of the western US.[67] Depending on technology, above-ground retorting uses between one and five barrels of water per barrel of produced shale oil.[37][68][69][70] In situ processing, according to one estimate, uses about one-tenth as much water.[71] A 2007 programmatic environmental impact statement issued by the US Bureau of Land Management stated that surface mining and retort operations produce two to ten US gallons (8?38 l) of wastewater per tonne of processed oil shale.

As I said, lets make Canada into a barren wasteland with oil shale extraction. I want my SUV!

 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
0
0
Originally posted by: techs
As I said, lets make Canada into a barren wasteland with oil shale extraction. I want my SUV!
Well FWIW your not gonna want an SUV either way, unconventional oil might replace supply, but it does so at substatial COST. So, even if you *could* drive your SUV as much as you wanted would you really get one when gas is 5-10$ a gallon?
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,567
3
0
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: techs
As I said, lets make Canada into a barren wasteland with oil shale extraction. I want my SUV!
Well FWIW your not gonna want an SUV either way, unconventional oil might replace supply, but it does so at substatial COST. So, even if you *could* drive your SUV as much as you wanted would you really get one when gas is 5-10$ a gallon?
You mean this summer?

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
141
116
Originally posted by: wpshooter
Those countries over in the middle east & the oil companies may be raking the rest of the world over the coals NOW with the ridiculous prices that they are charging for petroleum products, BUT when the day comes that they run out of oil over there, lets see how much grain and food products they can grow in all that SAND over there !!!!!
Let's see how much grain and food we can grow here without gas/diesel to run our tractors and farm equipment, and run the trucks and trains that deliver food across the US.

!!!!!!

(that's six exclamation marks, so I win)
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Originally posted by: techs
Yes, its about time Canada turned into a polluted wasteland.
I hereby demand Canada produce all the oil the US wants out of their tar/oil shale.
After all, if Canada won't comply, we will just invade and take over and make Canada the 51st state.
And then we would be polluting OUR country.
Now the only question is which or all of the Great Lakes we will drain so we will have enough water to extract the oil?
I'm guessing you haven't seen the oil sands before.

There is nothing special up there. It's no worse then clear cutting when trees are replanted.

I think it might even be better in the long run for the environment, the oil sands are just below the surface, you see the oil oozing out into the rivers and on the ground in some places and I mean naturally.

There is also the government policy of restoring the dig sites back to how they where before, they have bison herds (those fenced in) on reclaimed patches of land. Some of the older restored sites you would never know where once a open pit mine.

If they so much as spill a gallon of gas on the ground they have to do a clean up. Rather ironic as the ground was full of oil before.

The only long term negative impact is new cities, towns and roads and as I said there is nothing special up there, no species or habitats that will be destroyed as a result of these things.
Wiki and you shall find:
Concerns have been expressed over the oil shale industry's use of water. This is a particularly sensitive issue in the arid regions of the western US.[67] Depending on technology, above-ground retorting uses between one and five barrels of water per barrel of produced shale oil.[37][68][69][70] In situ processing, according to one estimate, uses about one-tenth as much water.[71] A 2007 programmatic environmental impact statement issued by the US Bureau of Land Management stated that surface mining and retort operations produce two to ten US gallons (8?38 l) of wastewater per tonne of processed oil shale.

As I said, lets make Canada into a barren wasteland with oil shale extraction. I want my SUV!
Ok, so I'll have to look up where they get the water, at what rate is it used vs replensihed, is the waste water treated and is it recycled? Not all water is shipped out with the oil in the pipe lines, first there is the hot water/steaming process (not sure how this works) which does not go into the oil and then the slury is taken form the processing facilities on the mine site and sent to a near by refinery where it is then shipped out to wherever. At least from what I saw at Syncrude's aurora/north mine mine sites (yes, one is called "north mine").

So just how much water is really wasted? And more importantly does it matter? (note I do not mean "it doesn't matter no matter what")

The subject of shipping Canada's water to the US is another issue best left to a separate post.
 

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,332
0
76
Sky high oil prices is good for the US! It encourages R&D which eventually will make oil obsolete in the US!
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
0
0
Originally posted by: Jiggz
Sky high oil prices is good for the US! It encourages R&D which eventually will make oil obsolete in the US!
this is pretty much the most retarded statement ever and I can't stand the number of people falling for it these days.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Jiggz
Sky high oil prices is good for the US! It encourages R&D which eventually will make oil obsolete in the US!
this is pretty much the most retarded statement ever and I can't stand the number of people falling for it these days.
Thats the most retarded stupid idiotic reply to a post I have ever seen....

And it's true.... R&D will happen on a large scale. But, I guess you just want to sit back and keep paying 5-10 bucks for gas... No problem for you I guess.

I bet Toyota comes out with another Hybred that can get 75 per gallon on the freeway....

Maybe Ford or Chevy will get off their ass and build something worth driving?

 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
56,742
5,110
126
Originally posted by: ericlp
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Jiggz
Sky high oil prices is good for the US! It encourages R&D which eventually will make oil obsolete in the US!
this is pretty much the most retarded statement ever and I can't stand the number of people falling for it these days.
Thats the most retarded stupid idiotic reply to a post I have ever seen....

And it's true.... R&D will happen on a large scale. But, I guess you just want to sit back and keep paying 5-10 bucks for gas... No problem for you I guess.

I bet Toyota comes out with another Hybred that can get 75 per gallon on the freeway....

Maybe Ford or Chevy will get off their ass and build something worth driving?
Actually, there's already a Hybrid mod in the works that will get 100 MPG over a short haul.
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel.../News/articleId=109981

http://articles.moneycentral.m...100mpgCarIsComing.aspx

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1582/

Gonna disagree with you that high gas prices are good for America. We're a nation that revolves around our vehicles, and high gas prices hurt everyone. Until Chevron and their ilk come up with a way to make big bux on alternative energy, there won't be any major developments in the field.
HEV's are already starting to become available, on a VERY limited supply, but with only a hand-ful of hydrogen filling stations, their usefulness is very limited.
 

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