Oil Changes In Europe

[herbiehancock]

I've always wondered why the oil change interval is still 3K miles...........and it's been that since I can remember back to the '60's. It's not like oil hasn't improved since then....and it has, significantly......or oil filters haven't gotten better-----they have, significantly------and yet we keep getting told we must change our oil every 3K miles.

So, let's recap......much cleaner burning engines and engines built with much better metals and manufacturing techniques, significantly better oil over the past 4 decades, significantly better oil filtering media in the last 4 decades, still we haven't been able to lengthen the oil change interval. Odd and strange.......

 

[Parasitic]

we're just more elite.
being the extremely awesome driver that I am I have to change motor oil every 50 miles to ensure optimum driving conditions.





(in case you haven't noticed, i was joking and trying to make a point about ignorance.)

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: DVad3r

Originally posted by: Atheus
Smaller and more reliable engines?

Same model cars.

OMG, Americans are so stupid!

Alright, can we move on now?

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: smack Down
Just about everyones driving is consider extreme conditions.

No, you have that bassakwards. Just about everyone is driving under normal conditions. Ask the manufacturer directly and they say the vast majority are in NORMAL conditions. That is the definition of "normal", as in typical for most customers. But, to save themselves from lawsuits, the manufacturers make the manual read as if everyone was under severe conditions.

My Civic is 10,000 miles (16,000 km) between oil changes according to the US manual. Everyone here just freaks out. 3,000 miles for most cars now is just a waste of time and money.

confirmed. the oil monitor in my grand prix pops on at 20-25,000km, so that's when the oil gets changed. (90% highway)

 

[TitanDiddly]

Smarter people.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#The%203000%20Mile%20Myth

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html <-- That whole site is excellent, btw.

 

[DVad3r]

I use synthetic oil with my Lexus. Also pour in 91 octane gas. My manual still says 8000 km intervals. Could I probably go more on my oil then?

 

[Eli]

There is no difference, except the public's perception of what is acceptable.

There is no 3,000 mile oil change myth being perpetuated by Jiffy Lube over there. They actually read their automobile's manuals, apparently.

Although, there may be one aspect that is being left out.. Oil manufacturers tend to make their European blends more robust. That's why you occasionally hear about how good "German" Castrol is, and such.

Shouldn't really matter, unless you're an oil elitist like me, though.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: smack Down
Just about everyones driving is consider extreme conditions.

No, you have that bassakwards. Just about everyone is driving under normal conditions. Ask the manufacturer directly and they say the vast majority are in NORMAL conditions. That is the definition of "normal", as in typical for most customers. But, to save themselves from lawsuits, the manufacturers make the manual read as if everyone was under severe conditions.

My Civic is 10,000 miles (16,000 km) between oil changes according to the US manual. Everyone here just freaks out. 3,000 miles for most cars now is just a waste of time and money.

Hmm..

I agree with your sentiment, but I wouldn't be so sure about that.

If your driving conditions include any or all of the following conditions,

Hot
Cold
Dusty
Stop and Go
Short trips

You need to be more mindful about your change intervals. That said, most people are so concerned with the 3,000 mile oil change that they feel "bad" if they let it get to 5 or 6k.. and even under the worst conditions, a decent oil will still be functional, although needing a change, at that point.

The error that many people make is in the short trip category. They think that making many short trips to the grocery store or whatnot is "Light-Duty", and it is not. It presents some of the worst conditions your oil can experience, even worse than constant city driving.

Each condition causes the oil to fail in different ways, but the only way to fix it is to change it.

 

[RichUK]

My BMW uses Castrol SLX.

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
So, reason why in Europe you make an oil change at around 15,000-16,000 km intervals as opposed to 5000-8000 ones in NA?

Marketing.

In the US, customers are accustomed to expect a car to have a regular service interval.

In Europe, the general public has less of an obsession with cars. Additionally, employer-owned company cars are a very common benefit of employment - as it is the employer who is responsible for the fleet, maintenance costs during the period of ownership directly impact the company's bottom line. Longer service intervals mean drastically reduced maintenance costs.

It's essentially tweaking the product for the different markets. Americans like short service intervals because it gives the (misleading?) impression that it will result in long-term reliability. Ant any rate, it allows the manufacturers to sell cheap and claw back some profit on more frequent maintenance. Europeans like long service intervals because it's cheaper and less effort.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

<Obligatory Pwnage> I see you didn't bother to look at the long-term costs of that expensive car either. Should have listened to me the first time! </OP>

Anyhow, you can probably go double that distance, unless you're doing a majority of stop-and-go city driving.

- M4H

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: Mark R

Originally posted by: DVad3r
So, reason why in Europe you make an oil change at around 15,000-16,000 km intervals as opposed to 5000-8000 ones in NA?

Marketing.

In the US, customers are accustomed to expect a car to have a regular service interval.

In Europe, the general public has less of an obsession with cars. Additionally, employer-owned company cars are a very common benefit of employment - as it is the employer who is responsible for the fleet, maintenance costs during the period of ownership directly impact the company's bottom line. Longer service intervals mean drastically reduced maintenance costs.

It's essentially tweaking the product for the different markets. Americans like short service intervals because it gives the (misleading?) impression that it will result in long-term reliability. Ant any rate, it allows the manufacturers to sell cheap and claw back some profit on more frequent maintenance. Europeans like long service intervals because it's cheaper and less effort.

That?s not entirely true. Leaseplan UK hold the lease for my company car and also provide the fleet management for the company I work for.

Even though Leaseplan UK are governed in respect to fleet expenditures by my company, there is no cost cutting when it comes to the service interval for my company car, or any other additional car expenditure for that matter.

 

[DVad3r]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
<Obligatory Pwnage> I see you didn't bother to look at the long-term costs of that expensive car either. Should have listened to me the first time! </OP>

Anyhow, you can probably go double that distance, unless you're doing a majority of stop-and-go city driving.

- M4H

Im doing half regular city (not heavy I never drive downtown or in congested old town areas) and half highway driving. I could probably go 12,13,14 k km easy then?

And ya if I could go back in time I would buy a beater.

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: RichUK
That?s not entirely true. Leaseplan UK hold the lease for my company car and also provide the fleet management for the company I work for.

Even though Leaseplan UK are governed in respect to fleet expenditures by my company, there is no cost cutting when it comes to the service interval for my company car, or any other additional car expenditure for that matter.

Sorry, that's not what I was implying. It's in a lease manager's interest to ensure that all vehicles are maintained to the manufacturer's recommendation to maximize resale value and avoid claims of negligence.

The point is that the lease manager will have worked out the total cost of ownership - which includes purchase, maintenance and depreciation. The manufacturers are well aware of this and in can compete in the commercial market, not just on purchase price but on maintenance costs (offering extended service intervals, is just one feature that they can use in marketing their vehicles).

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: TitanDiddly
Smarter people.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#The%203000%20Mile%20Myth

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html <-- That whole site is excellent, btw.

The first site lost all credibility with the following quote: "Since "Big Oil" is in bed with the un-elected president in the U.S., don't expect any action of lower sulphur fuel for a while in the United States. If Al Gore is re-elected in 2004, and the Supremes don't simply ignore the election results again, then there is a chance for lower sulphur fuel in the U.S. beginning in 2005." I don't care how much someone dislikes a political figure, a rant like that has no place whatsoever in a technical discussion and makes me suspect that the technical claims on the site are biased as well.

Their claims on the origin of synthetic oils are wrong as well, synthetics were developed for military applications in severely cold climates and as lubricants in high-temperature engine conditions.

There are a lot of unsubstantiated and un-referenced claims on that site and it really sets off my "Uncle Clem's Shadetree Mechanic Advice" warning buzzer.

ZV

 

[overst33r]

Why is your avatar messed up?

 

[sygyzy]

The reason is that the oil change industry created myths that your car needs to have lots of oil changes or the engine might blow up. My '05 TSX manual says that I can change it ever 10,000 miles (or 12,000?) and that's with REGULAR oil. They don't even tell you to use synthetic. Assuming that manufacturers don't want any liability, this is probably understated so say 12,000-15,000 miles. Jesus!

What do I do? I change it every 3-5k with synthetic. Why? Because I hear people say "well it's not *that* expensive and I'd rather be safe and sorry" and I am not brave enough to stick to my guns and try to prove the oil industry wrong.