Oil change interval with synthetic oil

[JCH13]

You can't just do one early in the life of the vehicle and make a life long assumption about OCI.

Do many people ever get UOAs? No. Can you improve your decision making by getting just one? Yes. Is it best to get a few done? Also yes.

 

[manly]

For the OP, I wonder what the TCO is for 1k miles a year of driving. It should be 75% auto insurance? Assuming this is the only car on the policy, maybe he's looking at $600 per year for insurance, and less than $200 for fuel and rare maintenance? Convenience is great and I've never imagined life without a car, but $800 gets a lot of ride sharing trips per year!

This thread is pretty informative, and I've just requested a UOA kit from Blackstone Labs. I may not be able to use it in November, as I doubt the stealership will collect a sample for me.

I'm taking my car to an indy shop in September for 60k service (spark plugs and brake fluid flush). I suppose I could ask them to collect some oil and top it off. It would be a "bonus" to know that my engine is in good shape prior to the CPO warranty ending in November. I'm still kicking around the idea of getting a Route 66 extended warranty, but leaning towards holding onto my money instead. From all that I've read, BMW F30 3 Series is pretty reliable.

With an eye on long term ownership, I've been changing engine oil annually but I'm pretty sure I can safely go more than 7k miles OCI.

 

[Muse]

I'm the OP...

TCO? That is what? Total cost of operation? My auto insurance is about $596/year (in two installments, i.e. they bill me every 6 months). They often bill more more than I figure I should be paying and I contact my agent and he fixes it, either by getting my odometer reading or reminding them, whatever. They billed me $348 or so last time, I bitched, I paid $298.

I have no tickets for 30+ years, no accidents.

Have driven about 1250 miles in the last year.

Yeah, my fuel cost is pretty slight.

Yearly registration fee.

My last maintenance was my 30,000 checkup, which I had done at 27,415 in 2014! At an independent shop of good reputation. If you can call that maintenance! It's the same shop that I had fix my A/C about 10 days before. It's still working. Not sure how well, but it's working. Seldom gets real hot here and, of course, I also don't drive much, so I can't say.

I'm at about 32,600 now on the 1997 Mazda 626LX.

They checked all these things at the 30k checkup:
- - -
Ball Joint
Body and frame: Inspect bolts and nuts on chassis and body
Brake Hose/Line
Constant velocity joint boots - outer boots starting to crack... (not bad enough to act on now)
Cooling system
Disc Brake System
Drive Belt
Inspect tension of all drive belts
Drum Brake System
Fuel Supply Line
Heat Shield, Exhaust
Heating and Air Conditioning
Inspect refrigerant and compressor
He checked for leaks using UV, as I asked him to do this, it was 8 days since they replaced the condenser.
Idle Speed
Steering
Inspect steering operation and linkages

Lubricate
Doors Hood and Trunk
Lubricate all locks and hinges

Replace
Air Filter Element (No, cause I did it a few weeks ago)
Engine Oil (No, cause I did it a few weeks ago)
Oil Filter (No, cause I did it a few weeks ago)
Spark Plugs (Yes)

Rotate Tires (No)
- - -

Of course, I've been smogged (I get A+ marks), changed my synthetic oil and oil filter myself.

One thing I did about 3 years ago was deal with a serious moisture intrusion. Determined that the trunk seal had failed... pretty badly! I replaced with new weatherstripping using Permatex weatherstripping cement and followed that up with black silicone. AFAIK, it's been great since.

I used to own two cars. Besides this, I had a 1983 Chrysler Town & Country, that I kept for those infrequent trips where I needed the improved interior space for transporting things, and it also had a roof rack, which can come in very handy for those Home Depot runs. But there were extra insurance costs, another registration to pay. I had to take it on drives occasionally to keep it fit for operation, ~20 mile runs on the freeway. I figured it was costing me an extra ~$300/year, IIRC, so I took up the state when they offered me $1000 to junk it.

 

[olds]

I completely waste oil. The only thing I use synthetic oil in since I got rid of my boat is my street motorcycle. I change oil at 3000 miles because I rev the heck out of it. I am sure I could stretch it to 5000 but it only takes 4 quarts ($20) and a filter is less than $20.

 

[manly]

@Muse I was merely wondering out loud if it's worth spending $900 annually to drive your 1200 miles. I suspect it is, but only if you're not a millennial.

 

[Muse]

@Muse I was merely wondering out loud if it's worth spending $900 annually to drive your 1200 miles. I suspect it is, but only if you're not a millennial.

I went 20+ years without a car, most of the time I had a bicycle, but for a few years I didn't (after some asshole stole my cheap ass bike, I refused to replace it until I developed a foot problem... running the streets).

I made up with my family and my uncle laid a car on me, 1983 station wagon. When my dad died in 2000, I inherited his car... that's what I'm driving now.

There's pretty much 2 reasons my car is a benefit to me:

1. I drive to Costco every two weeks. I used to bicycle there (5 miles each way), and I was the ONLY person I ever saw take a bike to Costco. I'd attach a specially made big basket to the back each time and bring back up to 80 lb. of stuff, every maybe 4 months or so. One day I actually pedaled home with 105lb of stuff on that bike... very unstable.

2. I play golf nowadays. Can't bring my clubs to the course without a car.

Other than that? Well, it would be tough getting to the gym in the rain without a car. I figure this next winter I'll drive there some days. Used to work out 1.5 miles away, the that gym closed end of March and my current gym is 5 miles away. When it was 1.5 miles, I could walk with an umbrella. 5 miles, I don't figure I'll want to do that both ways!

 

[manly]

FWIW I recently got a UOA from Blackstone. N26 engine appears to be in good shape. I don't plan on increasing my OCI much, but that depends on annual miles driven. I've thought about buying a Route 66 "extended warranty" now that my CPO coverage has lapsed, but I think I'll just "self-insure" and hope for the best.

 

[SP33Demon]

I completely waste oil. The only thing I use synthetic oil in since I got rid of my boat is my street motorcycle. I change oil at 3000 miles because I rev the heck out of it. I am sure I could stretch it to 5000 but it only takes 4 quarts ($20) and a filter is less than $20.

Mobil One synthetic lasts for 12,000 to 15,000 miles according to:

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

 

[olds]

Mobil One synthetic lasts for 12,000 to 15,000 miles according to:

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

In an automotive application I would agree. Most cars don't rev to 9k.

 

[EXCellR8]

Idk if i'd ever go that long but yea 5-7k is certainly doable, so long you're not getting oil level/maint light on dash and whatnot. There are obviously many other variables to consider.

Today's synthetic is really good.

 

[Muse]

Mobil One synthetic lasts for 12,000 to 15,000 miles according to:

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

It takes me 10 years to go that far at my current rate, and I use Mobile One Synthetic. Should I wait 10 years between changes? I don't punish my car. Just a 4 cylinder 1997 Mazda 626LX coupe with ~33k on it.

 

[mindless1]

Forget about claims how long an oil lasts in miles, you might consider them a relative equivalent to the mileage claim by same manufacturer for their non-synthetic oil but that's about it, and even then it has to assume a certain *average* duty of the vehicle, while Muse's use falls outside the averages substantially in at least one way and possibly more based on amount of time the engine runs per trip.

Starting and the minutes and miles the engine is cold contribute the most to the oil contamination, and subsequent so-called breakdown (effectiveness of oil to provide protection from both lubricating and corrosion), sludge and engine wear. Running once warmed up, gets into temp range of cooking off the blow-by byproducts of fuel and water that accumulated while previously running cold, while the rings seal better and reduce the amount of contaminants making it into the oil.

The higher the ratio of running warmed up to running cold, the more miles you can put on before the oil needs changed.

Muse, if you are doing many short trips, say 10 minutes or less runtime, I would change oil twice a year or once at least, regardless of whether it is synthetic or dino. This is a form of severe duty use. If you are averaging at least 10-15 minutes per trip, then change oil closer to once a year. If your trips average closer to 20 minutes, I'd move up to 18-24 mos. Extending that onward, if you only go 50 miles at a time you could probably go 3 years between changes, but if you want to go that long then I would do ONE 3 year trial and send that used oil in for an oil analysis to determine if it is too long an interval, or safer still, do it after two years to see if it looks like the oil has life left in it. I bet it won't be past due to change using Mobile 1, but your engine health should depend on evidence rather than bets. For all I know you could drive 1/2 mile at a time and need an oil change every 4 months.

 

[Muse]

I'd say my trips average 15 minutes. 90% of my trips the last 5 years have been either to a certain golf course or Costco (other than that I bicycle). The golf course is about a 15 mile drive with an elevation change of 1000 feet. So going, it's up that hill, coming back it's downhill. Pattern now is 25x/year a 5 mile trip to Costco that's level, usually 2/3 on the freeway and takes maybe 15-20 minutes.

I seldom drive less than 15 minutes. But not often more than 20 without a stop. So, maybe once a year makes sense. Guess I'm due, it's been 18 months. Monday should be a dry day, guess I'll do it then. I have the oil and filter.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, that's worse than putting lots of miles on the car. At least once a month you should cruise the freeway for an hour or so to get everything nice and hot. 15-20 minutes around town is kinda marginal.

 

[Muse]

Yeah, that's worse than putting lots of miles on the car. At least once a month you should cruise the freeway for an hour or so to get everything nice and hot. 15-20 minutes around town is kinda marginal.

Yeah, I figured...

My cousin's hubby one day showed me a bottle of Pro-Gard Fuel Injector Cleaner with Techron additive (Chevron), said he adds one to his gas tank once in a while and drives 50+ miles to make it do its job. He laid a bottle on me and I used it. I bought a case of my own at Costco, don't know if I've used a bottle yet 'cause I seldom hit the highway for an hour. I do once in a great while but always forget to add the bottle. I SHALL put a bottle in the car, that should help!

 

[mindless1]

You don't need to drive long distances to get the benefits of a fuel system cleaner, but it does bring up another issue with short tripping.

If the fuel sits in the tank too long, especially E10 or higher ethanol blends, they go stale and the more volatile components evaporate out and can result in deposits.

On the other hand people will tell you that keeping only a partially full tank, long term will promote rust, and towards the bottom of the tank will make the fuel pump run hotter due to not being submerged. That can depend on climate, vehicle age, pump design, etc so it is not like you should always try to run almost on empty to burn up fuel before it gets too old, but at the same time I wouldn't be filling a tank full if it's going to take more than a couple months to burn up that much.

I don't know the ratio of Pro-Guard fuel cleaner but the Chevron Techron brand is supposed to be something like 1 oz per gallon of fuel. It might be useful to put that ratio in once or twice a year, though it's also possible that it isn't doing anything necessary if you have no symptoms of clogging fuel injectors... but since you bought a case of the stuff, might as well use it every now and then.

 

[BoomerD]

You bumped a 3+ year old thread to pimp your biz?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I've posted threads about my 95 Trooper LS "projects". Determined to repair or replace parts as soon as it becomes necessary, I've dumped about $8,000 into the vehicle over the last six years, and I'd followed this practice of regular maintenance and repair since I bought it in 2002. So I've had the vehicle for 21 years and it's about 28 years old.

Lately, I've been nursing the old engine with "chemicals". I started regularly treating the engine oil with Marvel Mystery Oil more than 18 months ago. I have no hesitation in using full synthetic 10W-30 and 10W-40, and I use a mixture to balance the 20-weight MMO. The valve clatter that plagued the car for years is entirely gone now. I've been changing the oil every 2,000 miles -- The filter every 6,000.

The engine doesn't leak a drop of oil, and the Trooper doesn't burn any. It has always passed smog tests and with pretty good numbers, but the HC level has been edging up toward the California limit. There are 196,000 miles on the odometer. I chose to run three bottles (so far) of Cata-Clean through the exhaust system, and there were noticeable improvements in performance. So, I'm inclined to use Cata-Clean every three or four months, looking toward a December 2023 smog-test for registration renewal.

Given the price to have someone else change the oil, the cost of a 5-quart bottle of full-synthetic is not that much. So I can easily afford to change the oil every 2,000 miles. And with a well-installed crank-case drain valve, an oil change is as easy and clean as mixing lemonade. If I drive 3,000 miles per year, I may spend as much as $40 annually for oil. So why not change it frequently as I do?

 

[desy]

When I look at what an oil change place wants for a synthetic change they seem to up their premium price too
I have been doing my own and Costo synth is the best price I have found. I always do very long intervals, no turbos lotsa highway

 

[BonzaiDuck]

When I look at what an oil change place wants for a synthetic change they seem to up their premium price too
I have been doing my own and Costo synth is the best price I have found. I always do very long intervals, no turbos lotsa highway

Even the cost and convenience of having someone else change your oil seems wasteful with installation of an item like these:

ValvoMax

Fumoto

A one-time investment in chump-change and effort in addition to the drain-valve purchase: Get some thread sealer at AutoZone and a 10"x10" sheet of rubberized gasket material, plus some high-temp RTV (silicon) sealant. Worn oil-pan drain threads wear over time and eventually leak. Use of these items will seal the drain without any need to repair the threads or purchase an oversized drain bolt -- which you don't want -- because you desire the convenience of the drain valve instead.

After that, you can dress up in a tuxedo, put on some nitrile gloves as you please, put a clean plastic drop-cloth on the pavement, run a hose from the drain-valve into your waste-oil container (as sold at the Zone or O'Reilly's), wait a half hour for all the oil to drain, return in your tuxedo and finish up. Then drive down to the Zone -- so you can dispose of the waste oil on the way to Hollywood Bowl or the Oscars to sport your splendid and immaculate tuxedo.

Maybe you paid for COSTCO or O'Reilly's synthetic; maybe you paid for Mobil 1 or Castrol. Either way, the expense and the inconvenience are less. In those aspects, it beats running down to your dealership or repair shop so you can sits and waits a half hour in the lounge watching the wrong news channel, then to take another half hour to drive home.

And it beats getting oil all over your hands or wrists, or leaving spills on your garage floor. And messing up your tux.

 

[desy]

I like the Fumoto one, easily put a drain hose on direct the flow, most often I change at the end of the driveway so the drips aren't in the garage now I'd do it inside
The one damn vehicle though you have to take the wheel off to get the filter F#$%

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I like the Fumoto one, easily put a drain hose on direct the flow, most often I change at the end of the driveway so the drips aren't in the garage now I'd do it inside
The one damn vehicle though you have to take the wheel off to get the filter F#$%

Each to his own, and I might not have followed my current practice as I kept up my vehicles 20 years ago. As I said earlier, I will change my oil at 2,000 mile intervals as I incline to do so. I settled on using a WIX XP oil filter for my old car. Supposedly with synthetic oil, they don't need to be changed until passing a 10,000 mile interval. But I might change my WIX after 4,000 or 6,000. With the frequent oil changes, they're not likely to need changing even then, but I'll do it anyway.

That's still a b***h, though, to pull the wheel even if you can wait 6,000 to 10,000 miles before changing the filter.