Oil Change 3 months or 3000 miles..... Also Synthetics....... are they worth it?

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: cipher00
I switched after my 1st oil change, which was at 7500 miles. Here is a good article that says anytime after 6000 miles is good.

Hmm, now I'm really confused.

This article states that you shouldn't (!) use syntetics in a turbocharged engine. My Audi mechanic said it was fine (I have a 2001 S4)...precisely for the heat issues from the twin turbos. So now what? And what interval should we be changing?

I think you misunderstood what it said. It says do not use synthetic oils in turbocharged engines unless specifically recommended by the engine manufacturer or the oil manufacturer. So if Audi says it's OK, then you should be fine.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: cipher00
I switched after my 1st oil change, which was at 7500 miles. Here is a good article that says anytime after 6000 miles is good.

Hmm, now I'm really confused.

This article states that you shouldn't (!) use syntetics in a turbocharged engine. My Audi mechanic said it was fine (I have a 2001 S4)...precisely for the heat issues from the twin turbos. So now what? And what interval should we be changing?

I think you misunderstood what it said. It says do not use synthetic oils in turbocharged engines unless specifically recommended by the engine manufacturer or the oil manufacturer. So if Audi says it's OK, then you should be fine.

But see, it doesen't matter. You cannot let the manufacturers scare you into using one certain brand or kind of oil.

You can use any oil you see fit, as long as it meets the recomended API service category. They cannot void your warranty because you used a different brand than they recomend.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: cipher00
I switched after my 1st oil change, which was at 7500 miles. Here is a good article that says anytime after 6000 miles is good.

Hmm, now I'm really confused.

This article states that you shouldn't (!) use syntetics in a turbocharged engine. My Audi mechanic said it was fine (I have a 2001 S4)...precisely for the heat issues from the twin turbos. So now what? And what interval should we be changing?

I think you misunderstood what it said. It says do not use synthetic oils in turbocharged engines unless specifically recommended by the engine manufacturer or the oil manufacturer. So if Audi says it's OK, then you should be fine.

But see, it doesen't matter. You cannot let the manufacturers scare you into using one certain brand or kind of oil.

You can use any oil you see fit, as long as it meets the recomended API service category. They cannot void your warranty because you used a different brand than they recomend.

I agree with you, as far as the law goes, but don't you think it's better to follow what they advise rather than go against them? It's their product after all.

 

[Balthazar]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
I've got 130K on my Honda and change it maybe every 5k or so with Castrol GTX 10w-40. Engine runs smooth and never burns oil. I think the recommended interval is 7500.

You'll get a different answer from every mechanic.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: bcmind
do not switch to synthetic oil.

civic does not need that kind of oil. it's a waste of $.

I strongly diagree. A synthetic oil will keep an engine clean, and sludge free. Take a look at the test this guy did. This is the main reason older cars leak when they switch to synthetics.

'bob the oil guy' is just a sales whore for shaeffer's.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Now, regarding your question. It doesen't matter what oil you use to break your engine in. It will breakin with any oil. but.. because of this fact, it doesen't make any sense to use expensive synthetic oil that's designed to go many thousands of miles per oil change when you're just going to have to change and replace it every few hundred miles.

Now that is totally incorrect. You can't show me an engine builder anywhere that will NOT tell you to use regular oil during break in.

There is no need to change any car's engine oil during the "break in" period. In fact, on most cars, there is NO so-called "break in" period, and NO "break in" oil. Read most owner's manuals, and you might see them tell you not to tow anything for the first hundred or so miles, but rarely will you find a car that you can't leave the dealership with your foot in the floor with no ill effects.

Again, you should NEVER used synthetic oil if you are TRULY breaking in an engine. e.g., you just built it or had it built and just got it running. It will prolong the break in period. If you intend to run synthetic, you should go through whatever break in period you think you need, then switch to synthetic.
For 99.9% of factory-built cars, the engines are already run in at the factory, and require no special treatment. You'd still be hard pressed to find any engineer or mechanic who would say it's okay to immediately switch to synthetic in a new car.

Eli, you seem to know enough about Amsoil, in fact, I imagine you may even be a dealer, but don't go telling people stuff that simply isn't true. If you are going to use synthetic, I would recommend running the car for at least one oil change interval with regular oil, THEN switch. I would generally not recommend switching to synthetic in a higher mileage car. I will agree that synthetic has superior lubrication properties compared to regular oil, BUT.........................if you change your oil according to the manufacturer's recommendations, which for most people will be at least every 5k miles, then by your figures stated earlier in this post, the Amsoil is NOT cheaper.
Your figures: 36.45 for amsoil for the average car.
6.75 for regular oil.
16.5k interval for amsoil
5k for regular
OK, in your 35k miles, you'll have spent 36.45+filters for amsoil.
In the same amount of time, you'll have spent 20.25+3 filters. If you allow 5 bucks per filter(and that is a bit high, you still spend less with the regular oil. If you go to the 35k range with amsoil, it still is almost a wash.

You have been on here trying to refute the 3,000 mile oil change myth, which is what amsoil does, but to support their own(and your) case, you use 3 month/3,000 miles to compare costs.
The fact of the matter is, with today's oils, you can safely change oil at 6k mile intervals, with no more wear than you'll see if changed at 3k miles. This has been proven. And going by the manufacturer's recommendation, there is now no more benefit cost-wise to synthetics.
Most manufacturers recommend 5k, 7k, 7500k, sometimes even 10k between oil changes now. I still don't believe some of those higher intervals, but I know for a fact that there is no increased wear going from 3k to 6k.
I still recommend to my customers that they do it every 3k miles.
Why? Why would I do that while knowing it's overkill?
Simple. Most people are too frigging STUPID to change oil exactly when they're supposed to, so if you tell them every 3k, maybe they'll actually average getting it changed every 4-5k. That is a sad fact, but true.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: bcmind
do not switch to synthetic oil.

civic does not need that kind of oil. it's a waste of $.

I strongly diagree. A synthetic oil will keep an engine clean, and sludge free. Take a look at the test this guy did. This is the main reason older cars leak when they switch to synthetics.

'bob the oil guy' is just a sales whore for shaeffer's.

Yeah, but if you look you will see that all of the synthetics removed some sludge. I think he mentions Mobil 1 cleaned almost as good as the oil he's hawking.

 

[Pacfanweb]

One more thing. I have skimmed over this thread and saw a couple more myths:

1. Castrol is fine. Not one single thing wrong with it, as long as you use the correct weight for your engine.

2. Wal Mart oil is fine. Again, as long as you use the correct weight and specifications for your engine. You don't think they make their own oil, do you?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Now, regarding your question. It doesen't matter what oil you use to break your engine in. It will breakin with any oil. but.. because of this fact, it doesen't make any sense to use expensive synthetic oil that's designed to go many thousands of miles per oil change when you're just going to have to change and replace it every few hundred miles.

Now that is totally incorrect. You can't show me an engine builder anywhere that will NOT tell you to use regular oil during break in.

No, that is not totally incorrect, and I never suggested switching to synthetic immediately. I just said that it's not worth it. Like I said, it does not matter what oil you use to break your engine in. I realize that "every" mechanic will tell you to use conventional oil to break an engine in, as they should. But the reason is not because the synthetic oil will keep the engine from breaking in. Here is a reply I got from an AMSOil tech regarding the subject.

Eli,

AFF 0W40 will not prevent this engine from breaking-in.


Regarding the use of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils in brand new or rebuilt engines, it is recommended to operate the engine up to its first normal drain interval with a petroleum motor oil. There are a couple primary reasons for this recommendation.

1. New engines or engine components generate high wear metals to begin with and generally contain debris from machining and assembly. It is more beneficial to allow these wear metals to collect in an inexpensive motor oil than to circulate throughout the crankcase for extended periods in a synthetic motor oil. By operating the vehicle to its first drain interval with a petroleum oil, these wear metals and manufacturing debris collect in the oil and are then flushed out of the crankcase when drained. This allows for a much cleaner operating environment for the synthetic lubricant.

2. Within the first miles of operation, if there are any defects in the assembly or workmanship of the engine components, then they may be corrected before installing the more expensive synthetic motor oil. Occasionally, rebuilt engines may have re-machined components or materials which can sometimes be mismatched. These problems will develop in a fairly short period of time. If excessive oil consumption or any other problem is noted, this should be corrected prior to changing to AMSOIL Synthetic Oil.

Thanks,

Ed K

There is no need to change any car's engine oil during the "break in" period. In fact, on most cars, there is NO so-called "break in" period, and NO "break in" oil. Read most owner's manuals, and you might see them tell you not to tow anything for the first hundred or so miles, but rarely will you find a car that you can't leave the dealership with your foot in the floor with no ill effects.

I kindly disagree. Even with the most stringent manufacturing processes, when you look at a machined part on a microscopic level, the metal is not "perfect". Breaking an engine in mates all the friction surfaces in the engine together, reducing friction and improving compression. The cylinder walls are honed with the familiar diamond-cross hatch pattern, composed of millions of peaks and valleys. During breakin, all those peaks are sheared off.. and they wind up in your oil.

Again, you should NEVER used synthetic oil if you are TRULY breaking in an engine. e.g., you just built it or had it built and just got it running. It will prolong the break in period. If you intend to run synthetic, you should go through whatever break in period you think you need, then switch to synthetic.

For 99.9% of factory-built cars, the engines are already run in at the factory, and require no special treatment. You'd still be hard pressed to find any engineer or mechanic who would say it's okay to immediately switch to synthetic in a new car.

I agree, but again.. it is not because the synthetic oil will not let the engine break in, it is because it's simply uneconomical.

Of course they run the engines at the factory, but they are not broken in at the factory. They're checking for proper operation, leaks, etc.

Eli, you seem to know enough about Amsoil, in fact, I imagine you may even be a dealer, but don't go telling people stuff that simply isn't true. If you are going to use synthetic, I would recommend running the car for at least one oil change interval with regular oil, THEN switch. I would generally not recommend switching to synthetic in a higher mileage car. I will agree that synthetic has superior lubrication properties compared to regular oil, BUT.........................if you change your oil according to the manufacturer's recommendations, which for most people will be at least every 5k miles, then by your figures stated earlier in this post, the Amsoil is NOT cheaper.

As I've said in the other post in this thread, I am not a dealer. I have nothing to do with AMSOil on a professional level, I am just a satisfied customer who has done my own personal research, and have found their oils to be some of the best.

Your figures: 36.45 for amsoil for the average car.
6.75 for regular oil.
16.5k interval for amsoil
5k for regular
OK, in your 35k miles, you'll have spent 36.45+filters for amsoil.
In the same amount of time, you'll have spent 20.25+3 filters. If you allow 5 bucks per filter(and that is a bit high, you still spend less with the regular oil. If you go to the 35k range with amsoil, it still is almost a wash.

You have been on here trying to refute the 3,000 mile oil change myth, which is what amsoil does, but to support their own(and your) case, you use 3 month/3,000 miles to compare costs.
The fact of the matter is, with today's oils, you can safely change oil at 6k mile intervals, with no more wear than you'll see if changed at 3k miles. This has been proven. And going by the manufacturer's recommendation, there is now no more benefit cost-wise to synthetics.

Hmm, this is a bit confusing, but alright. Let's see. I agree with your point. I am just going what the manufacturers of the oil say... There are very few that have an extended drain interval recomendation.

That very may well be that new oils are "just as good" as the synthetics. I'm personally not going to take the chance. And there are cheaper synthetic oils than AMSOil, you're free to use them.

Most manufacturers recommend 5k, 7k, 7500k, sometimes even 10k between oil changes now. I still don't believe some of those higher intervals, but I know for a fact that there is no increased wear going from 3k to 6k.
I still recommend to my customers that they do it every 3k miles.
Why? Why would I do that while knowing it's overkill?
Simple. Most people are too frigging STUPID to change oil exactly when they're supposed to, so if you tell them every 3k, maybe they'll actually average getting it changed every 4-5k. That is a sad fact, but true.

I think we're all engine enthusiasts here. This is one of the few threads that hasn't erupted in chaos, and we've all learned something.. so let's be thankful. I will say that the only way to without a doubt tell the condition of your engine oil is with oil analysis. That's the only way you can tell if you need to change your oil sooner, or if it still has life in it. And I still challenge at least someone to take my analysis challenge.

 

[madthumbs]

I would think it's safe to say that if you have a good car, under normal driving conditions you should be able to drive it 10k between oil changes on the cheapest EC2 oil available. The body of the car will most likely rust away, get totalled, or have other major problems before the engine will die due to infrequent changes. Those that think that Synthetic oil is worth it because you can go longer between changes ignore the fact that changing the oil flushes pollutants such as water, and acid from the engine. The more that you put into a car, the more you stand to lose. The type of oil you used and many other "babying" tecqniques have little effect on the resale or trade in value of your car, but as pointed out will make your wallet lighter.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: madthumbs
I would think it's safe to say that if you have a good car, under normal driving conditions you should be able to drive it 10k between oil changes on the cheapest EC2 oil available. The body of the car will most likely rust away, get totalled, or have other major problems before the engine will die due to infrequent changes. Those that think that Synthetic oil is worth it because you can go longer between changes ignore the fact that changing the oil flushes pollutants such as water, and acid from the engine. The more that you put into a car, the more you stand to lose. The type of oil you used and many other "babying" tecqniques have little effect on the resale or trade in value of your car, but as pointed out will make your wallet lighter.

I am not ignoring any facts. Of course that's true, but the fact is, that synthetic oils are resistant to these things. The TBN talked about above is a measure of how well the oil neutralizes acids.

As far as water, you shouldn't have water in your oil.. Even if you only take short trips, you should let your engine warm up to operating temperature before you even drive it off. No excuses.