Ohio State University - Car and Knife Attack

[SNC]

A group of scientists placed five monkeys in a cage, and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on top.

Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the scientists soaked the rest of the monkeys with cold water.

After a while, every time a monkey would start up the ladder, the others would pull it down and beat it up.

After a time, no monkey would dare try climbing the ladder, no matter how great the temptation.

The scientists then decided to replace one of the monkeys. The first thing this new monkey did was start to climb the ladder. Immediately, the others pulled him down and beat him up.

After several beatings, the new monkey learned never to go up the ladder, even though there was no evident reason not to, aside from the beatings.

The second monkey was substituted and the same occurred. The first monkey participated in the beating of the second monkey. A third monkey was changed and the same was repeated. The fourth monkey was changed, resulting in the same, before the fifth was finally replaced as well.

What was left was a group of five monkeys that – without ever having received a cold shower – continued to beat up any monkey who attempted to climb the ladder.

If it was possible to ask the monkeys why they beat up on all those who attempted to climb the ladder, their most likely answer would be “I don’t know. It’s just how things are done around here.”

Does that sound at all familiar?

While that never actually happened it does a great job at making a point.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...n-teach-us-about-human-behavior-facts-fiction

 

[raildogg]

A group of scientists placed five monkeys in a cage, and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on top.

Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the scientists soaked the rest of the monkeys with cold water.

After a while, every time a monkey would start up the ladder, the others would pull it down and beat it up.

After a time, no monkey would dare try climbing the ladder, no matter how great the temptation.

The scientists then decided to replace one of the monkeys. The first thing this new monkey did was start to climb the ladder. Immediately, the others pulled him down and beat him up.

After several beatings, the new monkey learned never to go up the ladder, even though there was no evident reason not to, aside from the beatings.

The second monkey was substituted and the same occurred. The first monkey participated in the beating of the second monkey. A third monkey was changed and the same was repeated. The fourth monkey was changed, resulting in the same, before the fifth was finally replaced as well.

What was left was a group of five monkeys that – without ever having received a cold shower – continued to beat up any monkey who attempted to climb the ladder.

If it was possible to ask the monkeys why they beat up on all those who attempted to climb the ladder, their most likely answer would be “I don’t know. It’s just how things are done around here.”

Does that sound at all familiar?

Sounds just like the vast majority of the world's people. Just learn to accept the norms and never question them.

Thanks.

 

[interchange]

While that never actually happened it does a great job at making a point.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...n-teach-us-about-human-behavior-facts-fiction

I'm an atheist but I have a lot of respect for the Bible, Koran, and other holy books.

And I agree with Voltaire.

 

[Fern]

Where were the evil Muslims committing all these atrocities before 9/11?

Pretty much all over the world.

Here's a wiki entry that shows 50+ instances of Islamic terrorists acts prior to 9-11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

They've long been busy. What changed was Americans started paying attention. I was living in Berlin Germany around the time of the disco bombing. I was in Paris France when terrorists bombed the streets and stores. (These two aren't listed in the wiki entry for some reason.)

They've been around for a long time and have been very busy. Maybe you just weren't noticing.

Fern

 

[raildogg]

Pretty much all over the world.

Here's a wiki entry that shows 50+ instances of Islamic terrorists acts prior to 9-11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

They've long been busy. What changed was Americans started paying attention. I was living in Berlin Germany around the time of the disco bombing. I was in Paris France when terrorists bombed the streets and stores. (These two aren't listed in the wiki entry for some reason.)

They've been around for a long time and have been very busy. Maybe you just weren't noticing.

Fern

I see. So are these attacks tied together in some way? They all seem to be all over the map and the motives seem to be different.

I guess we weren't exposed to the evil Muslims before 9/11 for some reason. I know there was some coverage of Osama not too far before 9/11.

A lot of these attacks seem to be taking place in countries that have ongoing conflicts with neighbors, etc. Israel, India for example. India has had difficulties in Kashmir and Israel in Palestine. In the recent years, the Muslims seem to have turned their focus on the West if we are to by the the official stories.

If looking at these attacks just as they are presented, they do paint a pretty scary picture of Muslims. Of course in life one shouldn't always look at things in isolation.

 

[michal1980]

where do you suppose he gets his news? for fvcks sake you are denser than osmium

i'm not the one that's dense.

Your the one that cant figure out why Kaine jumped to blaming guns before the facts of the case were known.

 

[Zaap]

I see. So are these attacks tied together in some way? They all seem to be all over the map and the motives seem to be different.

The Twin Towers were actually a "return and finish the job" from the 1993 WTC bombing.

Heck, 'evil Muslims' tried to kill Doc Brown back in the day for stealing their stolen plutonium. (Simply known as bad guy Arabs in those days.)

 

[agent00f]

A group of scientists placed five monkeys in a cage, and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on top.

Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the scientists soaked the rest of the monkeys with cold water.

After a while, every time a monkey would start up the ladder, the others would pull it down and beat it up.

After a time, no monkey would dare try climbing the ladder, no matter how great the temptation.

The scientists then decided to replace one of the monkeys. The first thing this new monkey did was start to climb the ladder. Immediately, the others pulled him down and beat him up.

After several beatings, the new monkey learned never to go up the ladder, even though there was no evident reason not to, aside from the beatings.

The second monkey was substituted and the same occurred. The first monkey participated in the beating of the second monkey. A third monkey was changed and the same was repeated. The fourth monkey was changed, resulting in the same, before the fifth was finally replaced as well.

What was left was a group of five monkeys that – without ever having received a cold shower – continued to beat up any monkey who attempted to climb the ladder.

If it was possible to ask the monkeys why they beat up on all those who attempted to climb the ladder, their most likely answer would be “I don’t know. It’s just how things are done around here.”

Does that sound at all familiar?

Rather unnecessary when history supplies the rather direct parallel of those plotting jews.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

i'm not the one that's dense.

Your the one that cant figure out why Kaine jumped to blaming guns before the facts of the case were known.

I'm about 100% sure that many here would debate that first statement. So, dense-boy, where do you think Kaine gets his news? Maybe the news? And then he updated it? You are so, so, so fucking dense.

 

[SNC]

I'm about 100% sure that many here would debate that first statement. So, dense-boy, where do you think Kaine gets his news? Maybe the news? And then he updated it? You are so, so, so fucking dense.

I think the point is that his post about senseless gun violence was completely wrong and he, without verifying anything jumped on guns. As a candidate for next in line to the big chair, he might want to verify things before posting. This rush to be the first to say ore report something leads to people looking like idiots. A show of hands; how many here believe the headlines in every story we read or see?
DATELINE: MIDDLE AMERICA.
Heads up homeowners: Mortgage interest deduction on Trump’s chopping block

How dare he eliminate the mortgage interest deduction!!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think the point is that his post about senseless gun violence was completely wrong and he, without verifying anything jumped on guns. As a candidate for next in line to the big chair, he might want to verify things before posting. This rush to be the first to say ore report something leads to people looking like idiots. A show of hands; how many here believe the headlines in every story we read or see?
DATELINE: MIDDLE AMERICA.
Heads up homeowners: Mortgage interest deduction on Trump’s chopping block

How dare he eliminate the mortgage interest deduction!!

my issue with this, is why is there not the same level of outrage for the myriad of bullshit tweets drumpf spews out on a somewhat regular basis? Kaine made a mistake, owned up to it. has drumpf?

 

[SNC]

my issue with this, is why is there not the same level of outrage for the myriad of bullshit tweets drumpf spews out on a somewhat regular basis? Kaine made a mistake, owned up to it. has drumpf?

The point is they do the EXACT SAME THING. They run their fucking mouth and if they are called on it they backtrack. The left is no different than the right. And its because of people like you demanding the same outrage for the other side while rationalizing that because the other side does it so it's OK if my guy does. YOU need to make up your mind as to what you want. But based on your use of drumpf when referring to Trump I'm going to guess you dont have the mental ability to see the hypocrisy in what it is you spout. FIRST demand the thing from you and your side THEN and only then can you demand the same from others without looking like a asshole.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The point is they do the EXACT SAME THING. They run their fucking mouth and if they are called on it they backtrack. The left is no different than the right. And its because of people like you demanding the same outrage for the other side while rationalizing that because the other side does it so it's OK if my guy does. YOU need to make up your mind as to what you want. But based on your use of drumpf when referring to Trump I'm going to guess you dont have the mental ability to see the hypocrisy in what it is you spout. FIRST demand the thing from you and your side THEN and only then can you demand the same from others without looking like a asshole.

my point is, it's not even close. drumpf tweets out errant bullshit at a resounding rate. with zero remorse for inaccurate bullshit. he revels in it, doubles down on it. I don't care if I look like an asshole because according to drumpf's supporters

 

[agent00f]

I think the point is that his post about senseless gun violence was completely wrong and he, without verifying anything jumped on guns. As a candidate for next in line to the big chair, he might want to verify things before posting. This rush to be the first to say ore report something leads to people looking like idiots. A show of hands; how many here believe the headlines in every story we read or see?
DATELINE: MIDDLE AMERICA.
Heads up homeowners: Mortgage interest deduction on Trump’s chopping block

How dare he eliminate the mortgage interest deduction!!

This guy's been posting quite some lately: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...l-property-taxes.2493188/page-2#post-38604189

Can you spot the error in his argument? He seem to agree with you a lot.

 

[SNC]

This guy's been posting quite some lately: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...l-property-taxes.2493188/page-2#post-38604189

Can you spot the error in his argument? He seem to agree with you a lot.

Again, in english this time?

 

[SNC]

my point is, it's not even close. drumpf tweets out errant bullshit at a resounding rate. with zero remorse for inaccurate bullshit. he revels in it, doubles down on it. I don't care if I look like an asshole because according to drumpf's supporters

There you go again allowing others to determine how you should feel.

 

[interchange]

Rather unnecessary when history supplies the rather direct parallel of those plotting jews.

Disagree. I'm with Voltaire. And not because I'm largely descended from those plotting jews.

 

[interchange]

One key point is that Terrorism had been organized into cells in order to carry out coordinated attacks while being fragmented enough to avoid detection. This made terrorists hard to find.

Recently, many acts have been carried out by people who pledge allegiance to a movement but aren't part of any centrally-coordinated action. This makes terrorists impossible to find, because they aren't terrorists until they decide to be one.

I'm on the side of prioritizing not inciting people to terrorism when an action intended to mitigate people who are already terrorists carries this risk.

 

[raildogg]

One key point is that Terrorism had been organized into cells in order to carry out coordinated attacks while being fragmented enough to avoid detection. This made terrorists hard to find.

Recently, many acts have been carried out by people who pledge allegiance to a movement but aren't part of any centrally-coordinated action. This makes terrorists impossible to find, because they aren't terrorists until they decide to be one.

I'm on the side of prioritizing not inciting people to terrorism when an action intended to mitigate people who are already terrorists carries this risk.

Isn't it bizarre how we are lead to believe that all of a sudden, people are getting "radicalized" on the internet? Radicalized enough to kill other people? How weird is this?

So all of a sudden, a college student who seems to be doing OK just decides to end it all because of some videos he's seen. Or some other people decides to go and commit another horrible act because they went on a trip to a foreign nation. Is this how people really are? I know this is what the news media and our politicians have been telling us, but it still seems too bizarre.

By the way, Omar Mateen, the supposed Orlando shooter, was also an actor. I think the IMDB page was taken down for some reason. It is weird how he would pledge allegiance to ISIS in the middle of his 3 hour attack. Is this something from a movie or something? Because these so-called radicalized terrorists are playing their parts perfectly. Almost too good.

 

[agent00f]

Disagree. I'm with Voltaire. And not because I'm largely descended from those plotting jews.

Why disagree? Do you feel jews were not rather universality maligned due their, well, jewishness?

Also not a great choice to vaguely invoke 18th century notions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#Voltaire

Again, in english this time?

Try reading the link he posted, and if still can't figure out it, the posts after his which did. Once you grasp just how dumb that guy is, ponder for a while why you share so many view with him. It's all very relevant to what you bring up of idiots who can't read past headlines.

 

[bshole]

Why disagree? Do you feel jews were not rather universality maligned due their, well, jewishness?

Also not a great choice to vaguely invoke 18th century notions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism#Voltaire

I love Voltaire, he was one of the very first to meaningfully attack Christianity. His views on races were pretty standard for the time. Did you really expect him to know scientific facts that weren't discovered until more than a century after his death?

 

[agent00f]

I love Voltaire, he was one of the very first to meaningfully attack Christianity. His views on races were pretty standard for the time. Did you really expect him to know scientific facts that weren't discovered until more than a century after his death?

No, I just think it's important to be clear when bringing up people who've said a great many things of varying accuracy around a topic in their life.

 

[interchange]

Why disagree? Do you feel jews were not rather universality maligned due their, well, jewishness?

I'm being exceedingly vague cause I thought the associations were fun, but I'm more than happy to clarify.

The Voltaire reference is continuation of a previous post in this thread. The reference is only to the quote "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him".

And I use that because I think that allegory, even if not representative of any actual historical reality is not just a viable alternative, but superior. Otherwise, why would we craft collections of them into books and worship them as religion?

Without getting off track into that argument, I'll explain why I think allegory is superior. The closer something is to a reality that a person actually identifies with more than symbolically, the more the biases necessary to support our self-image impede our recognition of its truth.

Thus, it is no controversial finding that people are influenced more by a compelling story than by actual data (even if we know the story is fiction).

In short, Trump is our next president.

 

[agent00f]

I'm being exceedingly vague cause I thought the associations were fun, but I'm more than happy to clarify.

The Voltaire reference is continuation of a previous post in this thread. The reference is only to the quote "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him".

And I use that because I think that allegory, even if not representative of any actual historical reality is not just a viable alternative, but superior. Otherwise, why would we craft collections of them into books and worship them as religion?

Without getting off track into that argument, I'll explain why I think allegory is superior. The closer something is to a reality that a person actually identifies with more than symbolically, the more the biases necessary to support our self-image impede our recognition of its truth.

Thus, it is no controversial finding that people are influenced more by a compelling story than by actual data (even if we know the story is fiction).

In short, Trump is our next president.

Allegory was "superior" to what came before in the same sense that dummy brains were superior to no brains in the evolutionary scheme. Or simple arithmetic is superior to no arithmetic even though people bothered to continued developing math.

It's certainly true more sophisticated concepts about reality might be less intuitive, but that's hardly a very good metric of superiority outside of political realism.

I would agree and stated on numerous occasions that trump played his cards right to appeal to the most potent instincts, and in fact insisted that the democrats should play their cards right in that regard, too.

To be more specific, these people evidently care much about their own economic interests, so it would be wise to use their white welfare as a stick instead of just carrot.

 

[interchange]

Allegory was "superior" to what came before in the same sense that dummy brains were superior to no brains in the evolutionary scheme. Or simple arithmetic is superior to no arithmetic even though people bothered to continued developing math.

It's certainly true more sophisticated concepts about reality might be less intuitive, but that's hardly a very good metric of superiority outside of political realism.

Funny. In the last exchange we had on this forum you were telling Mullah Nasruddin stories.