http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Creation "science" is about as much science as Greek Mythology.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm
http://www.fred.net/tds/anti/rebuttingcreationism.html
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Ohio jumps into the "intelligent design" (shallow) end of the gene pool
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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Creation "science" is about as much science as Greek Mythology.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm
http://www.fred.net/tds/anti/rebuttingcreationism.html
Didn't Bozack amply demonstrate his utter and complete lack of knowledge of simple biological principles in another fhread about a month or so ago? 🙂
I'm not surprised that those who know the least science are the most likely to press the case for creationism or ID.
How many scientists sit on the Ohio state school board? If someone comes up with a number greater than zero, please enlighten me.
-Robert
I'm not surprised that those who know the least science are the most likely to press the case for creationism or ID.
How many scientists sit on the Ohio state school board? If someone comes up with a number greater than zero, please enlighten me.
-Robert
LordMagnusKain
Banned
yet one is touted as a good thing for our children to learn, and the other as pure-wrong.
odd that you call the pagan view good and the Christian view bad.
p.s. i don't belive in YEC but i belive for evolution to work it requires God's hand of intervention, same for physics, chemistry, and human life;
Genesis could easily be refering to sections of 'time' as per the Hebrew *and English* definitions of day: period of work; morning: start of work; and evening:end of work;
the "intelligent design" movement is taken seriously by many scientists and is growing. this theory is advocated by many non christians, but it's detractors always try to make portray it as a "religious" idea. even though it is not.
the same people who do this love to tout archaeopteryx as an intermediate even while supressiing evidence it is not, such as the discovery of protoavis texensis by Sankar Chatterjee of Texas Tech. which he thinks is more "birdlike" than archaeopteryx but 75 million years OLDER.
the same people who do this love to tout archaeopteryx as an intermediate even while supressiing evidence it is not, such as the discovery of protoavis texensis by Sankar Chatterjee of Texas Tech. which he thinks is more "birdlike" than archaeopteryx but 75 million years OLDER.
No, LMK, I call the ultra-Fund A Mental Case view the bad view. It is based on nothing. NOTHING!
Again, even the Catholic Church accepts the Theory of Evolution. Many Christians, including myself when I was a practicing Catholic, believed the Old Testament Genesis story was not meant to be taken literally.
Ah...now we get into various interpretations of "time" and "day".
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
I think you are mistaken about what "intelligent design" means to a real scientist. I can marvel at the complex and rational design of the brain without attributing it to any deity. Just because someone is willing to take the leap to "solitary power acting in the background" instead of saying "damn that's cool but I have no idea how it happened" is merely proof that even weak minds can get a degree.
Science does not endorse the populist notion of intelligent design. I love teleology but it's difficult to extricate a scientific perspective from the garbage floating through school boards.
As for your evolution example . . . that's the nature of the scientific dialogue. I don't know enough about paleontology to question your observation but it seems like a non sequitur.
CaptnKirk
Lifer
I can see where 'Inteligent Design' can lead to a President with no cranial capacity,
and account for Senators and Congresmen that have no vertibrae between the neck and the ass.
What was it that Darwin attributie it to? Natural Selection - or too dumb to come in out of the rain.
and account for Senators and Congresmen that have no vertibrae between the neck and the ass.
What was it that Darwin attributie it to? Natural Selection - or too dumb to come in out of the rain.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
Georgia's School Superintendent Cathy Cox wasn't comfortable with the wroding of "Intelligent Design" so she made up her own wording "Biological Changes Over Time".
LordMagnusKain
Banned
my argument is for the literaly of the bible in it's historical and social context. It's not a book of science *shouldn't be taught as such* but it isn't wrong.
Separation of church and state.
"Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions." --Thomas Jefferson: Note to Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:419
"No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced [in the elementary schools] inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination." --Thomas Jefferson: Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:425
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Who is this Thomas Jefferson fellow . . . probably some godless commie. What this guy needs is a few hours watching CBN.
Personally they should teach both or none. Id say both aren't completely right, or possible completely wrong.
The theory of evolution is just as whacky as creationism. Coming from a nano speck of nothing, evolving into a single cell ogranisim, then evolving on up.
Have humans evolved? Yes or we would have died out
Have animials? Yes or they would have died out
Did we both come from some microscopic speck? Can't prove it, anymore than you can prove creationism.
The theory of evolution is just as whacky as creationism. Coming from a nano speck of nothing, evolving into a single cell ogranisim, then evolving on up.
Have humans evolved? Yes or we would have died out
Have animials? Yes or they would have died out
Did we both come from some microscopic speck? Can't prove it, anymore than you can prove creationism.
Well if you want to get hypertechnical. Creationism doesnt go against relegious sects. It goes against atheists. Is atheism a religious sect? No. Is there a seperation of church and state clause in the constitution? no. What there is, is the freedom of religion. What Ohio is doing does not violate freedom of religion. Hell what Ohio is doing meshes with all religions based off a higher power, including scientology.
Ohio, isnt taking evolution out. Its supplementing the teaching of evolution with new material based off the theory of creationism.
And yes you may have heard about it or a similar case. Texas was waiting for a pending case to be resolved before it moved forward with adding creation with the theory of evolution, and the other theories about how life came about. The case involved another state, and it was settled out of court. People are bitching they are trying to take evolution out. And states are not. They are trying to add in creation which is taught at college level, but not at high school level.
I've got a question...
It is my understanding that "intelligent design" and "scientific creation" are two separate entities, and I think this thread is combining them into one.
Scientific creation is supposed to explain and prove stories from the bible using science. IE. Proving the world was created in 7 days, or that the earth is 7000 years old. People who believe in scientific creation are just insane or totally ignorant of everything in this world.
The idea of intelligent design, is that God is the creator of the universe and everything in it, but that doesn't mean HE made all the events happen. He just kinda helps things along, but lets the universe take care of itself for the most part. This includes things like teaching things such as evolution, etc.
There is nothing wrong with having religious classes (based on intelligent design) in schools, as long as it is an option and not part of the curriculum.
It is my understanding that "intelligent design" and "scientific creation" are two separate entities, and I think this thread is combining them into one.
Scientific creation is supposed to explain and prove stories from the bible using science. IE. Proving the world was created in 7 days, or that the earth is 7000 years old. People who believe in scientific creation are just insane or totally ignorant of everything in this world.
The idea of intelligent design, is that God is the creator of the universe and everything in it, but that doesn't mean HE made all the events happen. He just kinda helps things along, but lets the universe take care of itself for the most part. This includes things like teaching things such as evolution, etc.
There is nothing wrong with having religious classes (based on intelligent design) in schools, as long as it is an option and not part of the curriculum.
All I can say is thank god for private schooling, looks like my future children will have to attend so they can actually be free to learn about and discuss all types of topics instead of having certain issues husshed because of a few nutso over politically correct parents, ehem conjur ehem...and to think I used to hate my private education, now I am glad I went.
and conjur, please prove my generalization wrong? where do you feel that faith is appropriate in the public aspect of society? how long until faith courses and theology are removed from state funded colleges by people like you?...it is one thing to totally ignore science for faith, or to teach one faith over another...but the post you put up seems highly non denominational and that it would be taught in conjunction with scientific facts...people like you scare me 🙂 viva the pussification of america, onward conjur!!
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
That's not hypertechnical . . . it's ridiculous. Creationism says poof we came into existence b/c God said, "Let there be light" . . . followed by a few days tinkering. You are quite right that atheists and creationist are diametrically opposed but they are both lame and uninformed. While the evidence for God is less than convincing, the evidence against God is equally ambiguous.
Intelligent design, as related to teleology, does not require a Creator. But having a Creator . . . that thinks like intelligent humans . . . completes the circle. Fortunately, good science ain't no circle of logic. The religioso is perfectly comfortable with circles b/c they already have all the answers. Science is the search for answers . . . accordingly, creationism and science don't really have anything to talk about. The Creationist says "God did it" and scientists say "this is how we think it was done . . . except we have no idea how it started."
Scientists always lose this apples and oranges debate b/c unlike the fruits on the other side . . . we never claim certainty. Intelligent design, as a scientific construct, is no more than respect and admiration of nature . . . and in my case an attempt to mimick what Mother Nature typically does so well.
I'll take the word of one of the founding fathers over an egotistical Fund A Mental Case anyday.
"pussification of america"?
That's exactly what creation "science" is attempting to do. No longer will children question how something works. They'll simply answer, "Jesus keeps the atoms together. Isn't it great that Jesus does this for us?"
*That* is what is scary, bozack.
They arent trying to take evolution out, so how the fvck do you come up with that sh!t. They are trying to add another theory, of which there are many besides evolution and creation. Hell even in the so called "banning" of evolution by Georgia didnt take evolution out. Evolution is a word to describe changes over time. The theory of evolution IS biological changes over time, from life to now.
The theory of evolution is now doubt partially right, because we have evolved. In the end, if how life was createdcould ever been proven, which it can not. It would likely be a combination of several theories.
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