Question. Why aren't there any liberal moral leaders helping to define morality? or, does the left believe that there aren't declining morals in the US/world?
The left believes morals, based largely in part on RELIGIOUS belief, should not be part of the American political system. I agree with them in that regard.
Bennet has nobody but himsef to blame, he is the one who climbs up on that holier than thou stump.
8+ million, must be nice....
Bennet has nobody but himsef to blame, he is the one who climbs up on that holier than thou stump.
8+ million, must be nice....
To be a liberal generally means to have outgrown the repressive morality of the right. Liberality is a kind of freedom from constraints, the inability to confine ones thinking to a small box. Implicit in liberality is an expanded view of morality, not as the slapped wanker hand, but freedom of emotional expression. The right is a mass of quivering inhibition and a desire to punish anybody having fun. The repression is sever and builds tremendous anal pressure. This leaks our as the undercover stink of vice and corruption always hidden from view. It's just not nice to fool mother nature, and liverals know it. Free at last, FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST!!!!!!!
For me a slot is a way to spend a few hours having some fun. I don't expect to win and I don't need to self-flagulate myself with it to remind me of my weakness and my sin. He could have given 8 mil to a soup kitchen or his wife.
For me a slot is a way to spend a few hours having some fun. I don't expect to win and I don't need to self-flagulate myself with it to remind me of my weakness and my sin. He could have given 8 mil to a soup kitchen or his wife.
A few responses.
Alistar7: I agree with you also. I believe in separation of church and state. But, morals are universal to every religion and even to atheism (well, maybe). Some are considered absolutes.
Red Dawn: A typically useless response, but I've come to expect that from you, thanks for not letting me down.
Moonbeam: Ditto
Anyone have any thought provoking responses?
P.S. I'm not defending Bennett. It is quite ironic, and hypocritical. I'm just asking why the left does not have any outspoken moral leaders? Doesn't the left believe it is wrong to lie, steal, and kill? Can we agree those are universal morals?
Alistar7: I agree with you also. I believe in separation of church and state. But, morals are universal to every religion and even to atheism (well, maybe). Some are considered absolutes.
Red Dawn: A typically useless response, but I've come to expect that from you, thanks for not letting me down.
Moonbeam: Ditto
Anyone have any thought provoking responses?
P.S. I'm not defending Bennett. It is quite ironic, and hypocritical. I'm just asking why the left does not have any outspoken moral leaders? Doesn't the left believe it is wrong to lie, steal, and kill? Can we agree those are universal morals?
sMiLeYz
Platinum Member
- Feb 3, 2003
- 2,696
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Oh hes done a far far better job discrediting himself than lefties could ever do. Most of the far left stay out of smearing campaigns, I cant say the same for the far right however... but thats a entire case all together.
Bennett brought this on himself, he continued to gamble while he knew he would be exposed. This is actually a good thing, now he can stop hiding his habit and continue with the moral finger pointing with a clear conscience.
Since you did bother to respond I will try to dissect this.
"To be a liberal generally means to have outgrown the repressive morality of the right."
This sounds like you don't quite understand morality. I don't believe you ever "outgrow" the belief that it is wrong to lie, steal or kill.
" Liberality is a kind of freedom from constraints, the inability to confine ones thinking to a small box."
In other words, behave without a framework of morals?
" Implicit in liberality is an expanded view of morality, not as the slapped wanker hand, but freedom of emotional expression. The right is a mass of quivering inhibition and a desire to punish anybody having fun. "
So if your idea of fun is breaking into a 7-11, raping and shooting the clerk, and the right just desires to suppress that?
"The repression is sever and builds tremendous anal pressure. This leaks our as the undercover stink of vice and corruption always hidden from view. It's just not nice to fool mother nature, and liverals know it. Free at last, FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST!!!!!!!"
OK this is just drivel so I'll ignore it.
"For me a slot is a way to spend a few hours having some fun. I don't expect to win and I don't need to self-flagulate myself with it to remind me of my weakness and my sin. He could have given 8 mil to a soup kitchen or his wife."
More drivel, but again I'm not defending Bennett. And I don't necessarily think gambling is a "universal" moral. But obviously, you don't need anyone to remind you of your sin, because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!
"To be a liberal generally means to have outgrown the repressive morality of the right."
This sounds like you don't quite understand morality. I don't believe you ever "outgrow" the belief that it is wrong to lie, steal or kill.
" Liberality is a kind of freedom from constraints, the inability to confine ones thinking to a small box."
In other words, behave without a framework of morals?
" Implicit in liberality is an expanded view of morality, not as the slapped wanker hand, but freedom of emotional expression. The right is a mass of quivering inhibition and a desire to punish anybody having fun. "
So if your idea of fun is breaking into a 7-11, raping and shooting the clerk, and the right just desires to suppress that?
"The repression is sever and builds tremendous anal pressure. This leaks our as the undercover stink of vice and corruption always hidden from view. It's just not nice to fool mother nature, and liverals know it. Free at last, FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST!!!!!!!"
OK this is just drivel so I'll ignore it.
"For me a slot is a way to spend a few hours having some fun. I don't expect to win and I don't need to self-flagulate myself with it to remind me of my weakness and my sin. He could have given 8 mil to a soup kitchen or his wife."
More drivel, but again I'm not defending Bennett. And I don't necessarily think gambling is a "universal" moral. But obviously, you don't need anyone to remind you of your sin, because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!
You're welcome, thanks for clearing up where your morals lie. Perhaps you should go post in a thread where morals aren't discussed.Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why Fsck you, Fsck you very much
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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- 0
My Morals? Prey tell, how does my sarcastic reply to your arrogant smugness tell you where my Morals lie? You sound like a Mini Bennett yourself.Originally posted by: alchemize
You're welcome, thanks for clearing up where your morals lie. Perhaps you should go post in a thread where morals aren't discussed.Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why Fsck you, Fsck you very much
While it seems like everyone in this forum (and perhaps this country as well) are polarized straight down partisan lines on virtually every topic, there are some basic problems with Bennett & his behavior:
1.) While he never explicitly damned gambling as a sin, most in the religious community would say that it's generally not upstanding behavior. Some would probably suggest that it's a sin. Some would probably say it's a gray area. Certainly, someone who gambled the kinds of cash that Bennett wagered, most likely has an addictive problem with gambling. And like all addictions, it can be a problem since you're not in control of your behavior. Similar to the sorts of problems you see with drug addiction. For someone like Bennett who fashions himself a loud voice for a moral America, at best this situation comes across as an image problem, at worst it comes across as extreme hypocricy.
2.) Bennett and now conservatives rushing to his defense both claim that his behavior has not harmed anyone but himself. The exact same arguement made on behalf of other victimless crimes such as casual drug use, prostitution, etc. So for Bennett and everyone else who uses this arguement, it again smacks of extreme hypocricy.
3.) Morals in America are largely a religious issue. There is, of course, some crossover of morals between religion and our legal system, however there are plenty of behaviors that are not illegal but are deemed "immoral." A good example would be adultry, which is obviously not illegal, but highly immoral in the eyes of those individuals who are deeply religious. Same with gambling, drinking, etc. The constitutional separation of church and state was established so that American citizens wouldn't be subjected to religious law. No one should have to be subjected to someone else's morals unless it's by free choice. So while gambling may not be illegal, it's at best a gray area in the eyes of most religions and at worst it's plain immoral.
- dm
1.) While he never explicitly damned gambling as a sin, most in the religious community would say that it's generally not upstanding behavior. Some would probably suggest that it's a sin. Some would probably say it's a gray area. Certainly, someone who gambled the kinds of cash that Bennett wagered, most likely has an addictive problem with gambling. And like all addictions, it can be a problem since you're not in control of your behavior. Similar to the sorts of problems you see with drug addiction. For someone like Bennett who fashions himself a loud voice for a moral America, at best this situation comes across as an image problem, at worst it comes across as extreme hypocricy.
2.) Bennett and now conservatives rushing to his defense both claim that his behavior has not harmed anyone but himself. The exact same arguement made on behalf of other victimless crimes such as casual drug use, prostitution, etc. So for Bennett and everyone else who uses this arguement, it again smacks of extreme hypocricy.
3.) Morals in America are largely a religious issue. There is, of course, some crossover of morals between religion and our legal system, however there are plenty of behaviors that are not illegal but are deemed "immoral." A good example would be adultry, which is obviously not illegal, but highly immoral in the eyes of those individuals who are deeply religious. Same with gambling, drinking, etc. The constitutional separation of church and state was established so that American citizens wouldn't be subjected to religious law. No one should have to be subjected to someone else's morals unless it's by free choice. So while gambling may not be illegal, it's at best a gray area in the eyes of most religions and at worst it's plain immoral.
- dm
because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!
------------------------------------------
And I had a lot of it with you.
------------------------------------------
And I had a lot of it with you.
I'm sorry, but If you will notice, I wasn't the one cursing (masked). Do you speak to your mother like that?Originally posted by: Red Dawn
My Morals? Prey tell, how does my sarcastic reply to your arrogant smugness tell you where my Morals lie? You sound like a Mini Bennett yourself.Originally posted by: alchemize
You're welcome, thanks for clearing up where your morals lie. Perhaps you should go post in a thread where morals aren't discussed.Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why Fsck you, Fsck you very much
Devoid of morals, you can't really argue the point of morals, can you? Even when I simplify it.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!
------------------------------------------
And I had a lot of it with you.
And therein lies the inherent weakness of the left. Devoid of morals.
The converse is the inherent weakness of the right. The right is *too* morally convincted, and hence they become self-righteous, like Bennett and others.
I guess I'm done on this thread, since I can't find anyone with enough intelligence to debate on. Maybe we should just call this forum "attacks and sarcasm about politics and news".
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,858
- 6,394
- 126
A few thoughts from someone held in high esteem by the "Morality" crowd:
1) "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
2) "Don't concern yourself over the splinter in your brother's eye, worry about the log in your own"
In case anyone is interested/doesn't know, these are the words of Jesus.
The first point could be applied, and is being applied, to those now berating Bennet. However, Bennet was a big fan of casting stones and organizing the casting of stones. Does he now cast straight up? Or perhaps he casts then runs to the casted area to receive the blows?
The second point is Jesus basically saying, "Mind your fvcking business!". Words of wisdom.
1) "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
2) "Don't concern yourself over the splinter in your brother's eye, worry about the log in your own"
In case anyone is interested/doesn't know, these are the words of Jesus.
The first point could be applied, and is being applied, to those now berating Bennet. However, Bennet was a big fan of casting stones and organizing the casting of stones. Does he now cast straight up? Or perhaps he casts then runs to the casted area to receive the blows?
The second point is Jesus basically saying, "Mind your fvcking business!". Words of wisdom.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
No, I respect my Mother.Originally posted by: alchemize
I'm sorry, but If you will notice, I wasn't the one cursing (masked). Do you speak to your mother like that?Originally posted by: Red Dawn
My Morals? Prey tell, how does my sarcastic reply to your arrogant smugness tell you where my Morals lie? You sound like a Mini Bennett yourself.Originally posted by: alchemize
You're welcome, thanks for clearing up where your morals lie. Perhaps you should go post in a thread where morals aren't discussed.Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why Fsck you, Fsck you very much
alchemize, you are a bit of a tiresome bloke, but your sad plaint has softened my heart. But first we need to see why there's not much point to responding to you. You are a person whose cup is full, as the Zen master says. You have everything figured out so there no room in you for more. But anyway, lets look:
A: Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!
------------------------------------------
M: And I had a lot of it with you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Devoid of morals, you can't really argue the point of morals, can you? Even when I simplify it. (Should I say that devoid of morals you wouldn't understand an answer? What moral individual calls another individual about which they know nothing devoid of morals. You create the terms of your own reality, the self imposed illusion that I have no morals and proceed to make fun of me. That's not very moral. Imagine how badly that could hurt my feelings if I did have morals. Goodness me. I could get righteously indignant. so not only are you immoral, you don't think logically. You make unexamined assumptions without real evidence. You live in your imagination, not reality.)
And therein lies the inherent weakness of the left. Devoid of morals.(More of the same. The left is an abstraction. Only people have morals, not abstractions. You don't think very well)
The converse is the inherent weakness of the right. The right is *too* morally convincted, and hence they become self-righteous, like Bennett and others.(The converse would be 'too little conviction, not its absence.)
I guess I'm done on this thread, since I can't find anyone with enough intelligence to debate on. Maybe we should just call this forum "attacks and sarcasm about politics and news". (You do not debate on people. Debate is a reasoning process, an exchange, not a conquest. You either don't use English very skillfully, or you are looking for a fight, not understanding.)
----------
A: Since you did bother to respond I will try to dissect this.(I didn't respond because it is a laborious and probably wasted effort. See the above.)
M: "To be a liberal generally means to have outgrown the repressive morality of the right."
A: This sounds like you don't quite understand morality. I don't believe you ever "outgrow" the belief that it is wrong to lie, steal or kill.(I was not talking about morality, but repressive morality. One does not outgrow a belief that to lie, steal or kill is immoral, but that the way to make people moral is through punishment and preaching. A liberal outgrows the latter.)
M: " Liberality is a kind of freedom from constraints, the inability to confine ones thinking to a small box."
A: In other words, behave without a framework of morals? (Your life of fantasy again. It is thought without the fear of sin, the ability to entertain the extraordinary and new, to challenge assumption and tradition, to look to see what is fundamental and what is the detritus of the ages.)
M: " Implicit in liberality is an expanded view of morality, not as the slapped wanker hand, but freedom of emotional expression. The right is a mass of quivering inhibition and a desire to punish anybody having fun. "
A: So if your idea of fun is breaking into a 7-11, raping and shooting the clerk, and the right just desires to suppress that?(Surely you now begin to see that you are caught in a dream, that you invent this stuff right out of thin air. Freed from sexual sin is free of sexual compulsion, the repression of the natural that creates the deviant. A healthy sexuality is the highest morality in sex one can have. Repression turns sex to dirt and makes it seem dirty. Without repression there is no sick drive.)
M: "The repression is sever and builds tremendous anal pressure. This leaks our as the undercover stink of vice and corruption always hidden from view. It's just not nice to fool mother nature, and liberals know it. Free at last, FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST!!!!!!!"
OK this is just drivel so I'll ignore it.(Like you could judge.)
M: "For me a slot is a way to spend a few hours having some fun. I don't expect to win and I don't need to self-flagellate myself with it to remind me of my weakness and my sin. He could have given 8 mil to a soup kitchen or his wife."
A: More drivel, (I assume by drivel you must surely mean intelligence) but again I'm not defending Bennett. And I don't necessarily think gambling is a "universal" moral. But obviously, you don't need anyone to remind you of your sin, because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!(Your dream returns. I hope to outgrow the repression. Morality always remains. It is the repressed mind that turns morals to sh!t. See any better now?)
A: Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!
------------------------------------------
M: And I had a lot of it with you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Devoid of morals, you can't really argue the point of morals, can you? Even when I simplify it. (Should I say that devoid of morals you wouldn't understand an answer? What moral individual calls another individual about which they know nothing devoid of morals. You create the terms of your own reality, the self imposed illusion that I have no morals and proceed to make fun of me. That's not very moral. Imagine how badly that could hurt my feelings if I did have morals. Goodness me. I could get righteously indignant. so not only are you immoral, you don't think logically. You make unexamined assumptions without real evidence. You live in your imagination, not reality.)
And therein lies the inherent weakness of the left. Devoid of morals.(More of the same. The left is an abstraction. Only people have morals, not abstractions. You don't think very well)
The converse is the inherent weakness of the right. The right is *too* morally convincted, and hence they become self-righteous, like Bennett and others.(The converse would be 'too little conviction, not its absence.)
I guess I'm done on this thread, since I can't find anyone with enough intelligence to debate on. Maybe we should just call this forum "attacks and sarcasm about politics and news". (You do not debate on people. Debate is a reasoning process, an exchange, not a conquest. You either don't use English very skillfully, or you are looking for a fight, not understanding.)
----------
A: Since you did bother to respond I will try to dissect this.(I didn't respond because it is a laborious and probably wasted effort. See the above.)
M: "To be a liberal generally means to have outgrown the repressive morality of the right."
A: This sounds like you don't quite understand morality. I don't believe you ever "outgrow" the belief that it is wrong to lie, steal or kill.(I was not talking about morality, but repressive morality. One does not outgrow a belief that to lie, steal or kill is immoral, but that the way to make people moral is through punishment and preaching. A liberal outgrows the latter.)
M: " Liberality is a kind of freedom from constraints, the inability to confine ones thinking to a small box."
A: In other words, behave without a framework of morals? (Your life of fantasy again. It is thought without the fear of sin, the ability to entertain the extraordinary and new, to challenge assumption and tradition, to look to see what is fundamental and what is the detritus of the ages.)
M: " Implicit in liberality is an expanded view of morality, not as the slapped wanker hand, but freedom of emotional expression. The right is a mass of quivering inhibition and a desire to punish anybody having fun. "
A: So if your idea of fun is breaking into a 7-11, raping and shooting the clerk, and the right just desires to suppress that?(Surely you now begin to see that you are caught in a dream, that you invent this stuff right out of thin air. Freed from sexual sin is free of sexual compulsion, the repression of the natural that creates the deviant. A healthy sexuality is the highest morality in sex one can have. Repression turns sex to dirt and makes it seem dirty. Without repression there is no sick drive.)
M: "The repression is sever and builds tremendous anal pressure. This leaks our as the undercover stink of vice and corruption always hidden from view. It's just not nice to fool mother nature, and liberals know it. Free at last, FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST!!!!!!!"
OK this is just drivel so I'll ignore it.(Like you could judge.
)M: "For me a slot is a way to spend a few hours having some fun. I don't expect to win and I don't need to self-flagellate myself with it to remind me of my weakness and my sin. He could have given 8 mil to a soup kitchen or his wife."
A: More drivel, (I assume by drivel you must surely mean intelligence) but again I'm not defending Bennett. And I don't necessarily think gambling is a "universal" moral. But obviously, you don't need anyone to remind you of your sin, because by your definition, you've "outgrown" sin and morals as a leftist, you just want to have fun!(Your dream returns. I hope to outgrow the repression. Morality always remains. It is the repressed mind that turns morals to sh!t. See any better now?)
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
So.... If a Catholic leaves the confessional he has Jesus' blessing to throw stones.... givin that at that moment they are with out sin...
And... if you put that splinter in your brothers eye ..... He made me do it.... always seems to work....
RE: Bennett... I'd be more prone to listen to him now since I know from where he comes...
It takes one to know one.... no?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: Alistar7
I believe it was "Mind THOU fvcking business"....
I'll ignore the blasphemous intent but respond to the actual substance. I think If you looked at the contect of the quote about the splinter, it would be read more like - "before helping your neighbor with his splinter, make sure your are free of splinters. Remember, Jesus also said you are to help your neighbors
CkG
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,858
- 6,394
- 126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Alistar7
I believe it was "Mind THOU fvcking business"....
I'll ignore the blasphemous intent but respond to the actual substance. I think If you looked at the contect of the quote about the splinter, it would be read more like - "before helping your neighbor with his splinter, make sure your are free of splinters. Remember, Jesus also said you are to help your neighbors
CkG
No blasphemous intent, just plain English!
As for the splinter(s) issue, I have to disagree on your interpretation. Jesus was quite clear on what helping(loving) neighbours was all about, it had nothing to do with espousing Moral niceties, it was about meeting the physical need of those around you(food, clothing, work, etc). He was telling people to mind their own sins, in order for them not to fall into the sin of Pride, that being the sin of Superiority.
We don't want to forget either that a splinter in our neighbor's eye is a small and trivial thing, but the splinter in our eye is, owing to it's proximity to the retina, a huge blind spot, hence, I think, the splinter, log routine.
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