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Oh how I wish I had a P4...

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<< I think you get a little more with the P4. The low heat and quietness is enough for me. I'm just too poor to be able to afford one🙁 >>


I see, that's an entirely valid reason. Though my previous comment wasn't aimed at you really 🙂 I kind've got caught up in the topic of P4 vs. Athlon where many other comments were veering to, and I apologize for that.
 
Oh no, I understand what you were saying. Being a computer enthusiast myself, I wanted you to see why I think the P4 is a good buy. I really believe if some of the AMD fans from AT sat down and really worked on a P4 for a good amount of time, they wouldn't be so quick to shoot the P4 down. It's a great CPU from Intel and I can only expect more good things from the new Northwood. Except the price😱
 
Low heat? Take the crap out of your eyes and look at the P4's thermal load. A P4 gives off more heat at 1.5GHz than the XP does at a true 1.5GHz!
 
I don't really see how quietness can be an issue between the two. I have a gateway 1 ghz tbird that IMO is as quiet as anyone would need it to be. The price of a P4 compared to an athlon is ridiculous, some of us are on a budget and can't afford to buy a P4 therefore we will be die hard AMD fans unless Intel decides to lower prices someday, in which case I will probably still like AMD better because they were the underdog🙂
Scoob
 


<< Low heat? Take the crap out of your eyes and look at the P4's thermal load. A P4 gives off more heat at 1.5GHz than the XP does at a true 1.5GHz! >>



From what I've always understood an Intel CPU runs cooler than the AMDs. And let's not resort to name calling.
 


<< I don't really see how quietness can be an issue between the two. >>



I guess some people don't like having a Boeing 747 take off every morning when they start their PC😉
 


<< I think you get a little more with the P4. The low heat and quietness is enough for me. I'm just too poor to be able to afford one >>


I dont want to start a flame war, but madrat is correct, the P4 creates MORE heat, the heatspreader on the p4 does help it radiate the heat but the cooling requirments of the athlon xp 1900 and p4 2000 are roughly equal.
edit: Heat numbers.
 
At my college for the 3d apps and sound editing....they use Dell P4 1.6ghz QuadroDCC workstations

they run pretty nice

they also have a few of those G4 Mac cubes those are not to shaby either
 
I dont want to start a flame war, but madrat is correct, the P4 creates MORE heat, the heatspreader on the p4 does help it radiate the heat but the cooling requirments of the athlon xp 1900 and p4 2000 are roughly equal.
edit: Heat numbers.

That's cool. That was a smart move by AMD to make the new XP cooler, or bad by Intel to let the P4 run hotter😉 I'm still on the normal Athlon, these babies run HOT!
 
<<I guess some people don't like having a Boeing 747 take off every morning when they start their PC >>
Well I can assure you that my computer doesn't sound anything like an airplane. I guess if you stop and listen you can hear it but it's not high pitched or bothersome at all, you would have to be pretty nit picky to be annoyed by it... But everyone has their own opinion...
Scoob
 
I have nothing against a P4 system, and if you would like one, by all means go get or build one! 🙂 I would however like to point out that there are plenty of ways to make quiet Athlon setups. I just recently built three 1.33ghz Tbird setups for customers, and I used the Taisol HSF with a very quiet (~30dba) slim 60mm fan, and no intake or exhaust fans other than the PSU fan, and it is inaudible when the case is closed unless you put your ear to it. You can always spend a little extra money and use the extremely quiet Panaflo fans and replace the PSU fans with even quieter Panaflo units as well. My point is just that it's very possible to make a Athlon setup extremely quiet too with a little planning and extra effort... 🙂
 


<< From what I've always understood an Intel CPU runs cooler than the AMDs. And let's not resort to name calling. >>



wow you are outdated.
 
I have no problems with P4s, having to use them at times, and I like them a lot. I just found AMD to be the better value when I did my latest system upgrade. But one thing was for sure......my AMD system sure is louder than hell! That mostly has to do with an 80mm Delta fan pushing 68 cfm on top of my CPU. 😉

I'm currently in the process of finding a good-performing 80mm fan that isn't nearly as loud. I can live with a couple more degrees, seeing that my Athlon XP 1700+ is 100% stable at 33 degrees C.
 
Anybody running an Athlon XP with the stock cpu hsf and fan? I mean how loud can that possibly be. I think the reason that many people have so much noise coming from their AMD systems is because they are overclocking and they got those Delta Black CPU fans(or some other fan pushing 60+ cfm) vibrating the whole dang case in there. I would think that using the Retail fan and maybe one panaflow case fan on a non overclocked AMD system could give very low sound. Maybe I'm mistaken and the retail fan could be incredibly loud, I've never actually heard a retail fan being used. I doubt the dell system is using any kind of upgraded hsf and fan. Again I could be wrong.
 
Regarding the P4 vs XP Heat issue:

I think we've reached a point where both processors run fairly warm. However, I feel the most important factor when it comes to heat/wattage is no longer pure wattage, but wattage/area of contact surface.

For example, the p4 1.7ghz maxes at 84W. Its surface area is roughly 217 sq mm. (not including IHS). This roughly makes it ~.38W/sq mm.

An XP 1.53ghz maxes at 66W. Its surface area is roughly 128 sq mm. This roughly makes ~.51W/sq mm.

So in terms of cooling, it is quite a bit harder to cool an XP chip. Add in that an XP chip has the new, improved PCB exhibits much less heat loss, AMD chips will still remain harder to cool. NOt hard, but harder than p4s. (note: XP1.4ghz and T-bird 1.4ghz both push roughly the same amount of heat through the heatsink. This would indicate that the T-bird loses quite a bit of heat through the PCB and other secondary heat pathways).


Mike

P.S. Erasmus-X, Comparing XP temps is kinda hard. THe new PCB really throws off socket-thermistors.
 
I have an AMD Athlon XP 1.33 GHz with the retail fan and heatsink and I can't possibly hear it over the two Antec case fans I have that came with the SX1040 case and those aren't loud, they just give off a whisper. My case temps usually hover below 30 degrees and the CPU temp only goes above 40 when I do benchmarks or play games. The people with loud AMD systems are the people who overclock, equipped with Delta fans. I'm sure you realize that their are plenty of quiet fans to choose from that will get the job done exceptionally well. The retail cooling does just fine if you don't plan on overclocking, or if you want even better cooling....spend some cash on an awesome cooling setup with the money you save by using AMD processors instead of Intel......and odds are you'll still have some extra dough in your pocket. It's kind of ridiculous that you complain about noise when you should well know that you don't need a Delta fan to cool an AMD system.....and with heatsinks like the Alpha Pal8045, almost any fan could get the job done with that monster on your CPU🙂

Your thread is kind of pointless...no offense or anything. AMD has the performance crown, costs less than Intel processors, and noise is not an issue unless you feel like overclocking. Are you telling me that you honestly thought that all AMD cooling setups have to be loud? I mean...that's really the only point you have left that hasn't been shot down already and if I may say so, I have successfully shot down your last point you were trying to make. I could provide you with a ton of links to heatsink fans that will cool your AMD CPU quite nicely and are still pretty quiet.

Me thinks you have been corrupted to the dark side by Steve.....the Dell commerical guy:Q No telling how many pour souls he has tempted to the dark side😉

Forgot to ask: Was it that latest Dell commercial with Steve dressed as an elf that finally brought you over the edge?😀
 
I will assembly a system with Northwood after the initiall pricedrop, it dosent have to become all that expensive if you carefully choose your stuff. 😀
 
I'm going to wait for NorthWood to be out and go head to head with Thoroughbred. NorthWood has twice the L2 cache, giving it maybe a 1% edge over a same speed P4 Classic. If there are no improvements save the larger cache then it makes little sense to go with these expensive CPUs. Price and performance do mean alot in this day and age of shrinking budgets.
 
<< NorthWood has twice the L2 cache, giving it maybe a 1% edge over a same speed P4 Classic. >>

1%? I heard that it will be around 10-20% performance improvement but i dont know what the other core improvements will be other then .13micron and 512L2
 
The L2 cache will be around a 10-15% better hit rate according to Sohcan. When the system is already hitting at 96% at the L1 cache that means you don't have much performance room to gain. A jump to 1024k would have been a 30-40% improvement in the hit rate of the L2 cache. Having most of your programs running from L1 and L2 caches will be pretty impressive in thoery, just not alot in practice.
 
I have a 2.2 Northwood and my quick take on it (still benchmarking and evaluating it) is the additional L2 and higher core speed helps catch it up to a XP 1900 or 2000+ somewhat in the areas where a Athlon has traditionally spanked a P4. The things the P4 has traditionally done well, Northwood does a little bit better. The Northwood will sprout wings and begin to fly when it gets the 133fsb and PC 1066 IMHO. Of course AMD will be faster by then too. And so it goes.

This chip is certainly no slouch though!!!
 
<< I have a 2.2 Northwood and my quick take on it (still benchmarking and evaluating it) is the additional L2 and higher core speed helps catch it up to a XP 1900 or 2000+ somewhat in the areas where a Athlon has traditionally spanked a P4. The things the P4 has traditionally done well, Northwood does a little bit better. The Northwood will sprout wings and begin to fly when it gets the 133fsb and PC 1066 IMHO. Of course AMD will be faster by then too. And so it goes.

This chip is certainly no slouch though!!! >>

Sounds very good! Are you planning to OC your system also? (not that it really is needed..🙂)

I will OC my P4 to 133FSB, that is if SOYO SY-P4S Dragon Ultra allows me that 🙂
 
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