Oh, for the love of Christ...

[Orsorum]

Get over it! Bush is not destroying the world. Everyone here gloating in the situation that is developing in Iraq, go gloat in front of those soldiers' families, see what kind of response you get. You're all so busy bashing Bush that you refuse to step back and take an objective look at the whole situation.

The same goes for Clinton-bashers.

If you have suggestions as to what needs to be done in Iraq, then by all means, share. If you have suggestions as to how to conduct an investigation into the intelligence driving the war effort, please share. If all you're interested in is spewing rhetoric one way or the other, please just shut up and save myself and every body elses' time.

 

[Lonyo]

He wants to

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I remember a few months ago, when the neocons and their supporters were all gung ho about invading Iraq, and those who opposed it were little more than traitors. I remember listening (in person) to people who wanted to go in and kill every man, woman, and child. I watched an administration play on fear the whole time to gain advantage for selfish purposes, although there is debate as to whether this was about oil or ego. I watched an administration go into a country that posed no credible threat, and start a war that was NOT about liberation. I saw alliances weakened, decades of political good will squandered, the credibility and good faith of the US justifiably brought into question. I saw a president lead my nation to an act that collectively puts blood on the hands of it's citizens. Am I gloating? No, I am mad as hell. Will I ridicule Bush? Hell yes! In my opinion, he is far worse than Clinton, or even Nixon. He is on a par with another SOB, Johnson.

Now I understand that you are looking for constructive answers as to the Iraqi situation. I am sure I am worked up over this more than many Orsorum, but I have seem a good deal in my time I never wanted to again. I would dearly love to offer solutions to the problem, but truthfully, I think the Iraqi "patient" is dead, and talking about how to save the dead is futile. Perhaps we ought to be weighing how Iraq can divide itself into more stable areas. In the meantime people are going to die, and unless Bush suddenly pulls soldiers out our people are going to die every day. They did not and are not dying for our liberty or safety. They died for a blind man.

Perhaps you are the better person for wanting to get beyond this, but for me, there is no getting away from what I saw, and if Bush were to be brought up on war crimes charges, so be it.

 

[Orsorum]

Mr. Smith P),

I do not doubt your anger, and I assure you I share in it. I saw the demon of nationalism rear its ugly head. We have collectively witnessed some of the most blatant violations of our beloved Constitutional rights subverted (although maybe not yet exploited). We have seen an invasion of a sovereign nation come.

The dust is settling, some clarity is returning, although there is much left to be uncovered, much digging to be done. I support the calls for a full investigation into the intelligence used by both the British and American governments, and the actions taken by our leaders in their rush to war.

The fact remains that right now, we have troops in Iraq, our fellow citizens and human beings being slaughtered by a subset of the Iraqi population that does not share our goal of a democratic Iraq. We have allowed ourself to get involved, now we are reaping the consequences. Our nation (and Iraq) requires level-headedness, firm judgement, and wisdom, not partisanship, jealousy and gloating.

May justice be brought in Her time.

Shalom!
Nate

 

[jackschmittusa]

Our politicions have a poor understanding of nation building in general, and an even poorer understanding of how to do it in an area where they do not undersand the people, past politics, and religion. We once thought that if we gave Native Americans a hat, shovel, and a plot of land, they would be transformed into farmers. That didn't work either. We seem to think that everybody should just naturally want their country to be some sort of "America Jr." and are totally dumbfounded when they say they want something else. And of course, anything other than our model is inferior or nefarious, or both. Sad to say, I think that we are not capable of establishing a lasting, peaceful, fair government in Iraq. If there is a way to do it, it will still involve turmoil and bloodshed because of all of the competing factions who are divinely certain that they are right and will have nothing to do with compromise and accomidation. Almost any plan with the U.S. stamp on it will surely aggrevate the problems. I don't really see how we can be part of any real solution. So, do we let the U.N. work on it? Leave the Iraqis to figure it out by themselves? I'm not smart enough to pretend to know the best solution even if I think I can see the really bad one.

 

[uncleel]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Get over it! Bush is not destroying the world. .

DITTO!

There's nothing worse than a politican who puts his own interests ( to get elected ) ahead of the security of the country.
Especially those who voted for action against Iraq, & are now turncoats.

When the dems where in power, Rangers got killed in Somalia (Black Hawk Down) due to their failed policy of Nation Building w/ a "police force" rather than backing our soldiers up w/ material & manpower.

Because of that debacle, Les Aspen lost his job as Sec. of Defense, but Clinton walked away scott free.

 

[conehead433]

"Oh, for the love of Christ..."

I think you'll figure out eventually that Christ has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.