Offshoring statistics.

[IronMentality]

If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

For what job after graduated???

 

[dahunan]

And what also goes up as the unemployment rates do...

When pay decreases what also goes up

CRIME?

Guns are cheap too..

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

Thanks. I really respect Republicans who can be unhypocritical globabally. Oh no! The Indians and Chinese are taking our jobs!!!

Work harder then. Thats the American way isn't it?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: dahunan
And what also goes up as the unemployment rates do...

When pay decreases what also goes up

CRIME?

Guns are cheap too..

Yes, I predict an economic disaster will be horrendous for America. Our already weak fabric will rend itself apart into a million pieces.

 

[joshw10]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

For what job after graduated???

Hope it's not in math or science...that won't work. The high pay jobs will be the few who arrange the outsourcing.

 

[IronMentality]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

Thanks. I really respect Republicans who can be unhypocritical globabally. Oh no! The Indians and Chinese are taking our jobs!!!

Work harder then. Thats the American way isn't it?

You get what you earn.

 

[IronMentality]

By the way for our liberal friend, he must've missed crime being at an all time low in America. Damn our offshoring policies!

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. I work a specialized technical job, and have for a long time. For years, my coworkers had highschool diplomas and some technical degrees, but mostly the requirements were talent and experience. That's changing- the new guys I train often have degrees, sometimes Masters' degrees, and their experience is usually in the airline and telecom fields, where they made a lot more money. After a year or so of unemployment, they're happy to get $40K to start, and for every one the management hires, there are more who'd probably do it for less if we weren't Union... It's also dirty and can be dangerous, too...

I suspect it's the same in many other occupations, there are probably guys with doctorates working garbage trucks.... education has little meaning when the industrial system that demands, needs, and rewards education is disappearing offshore.

So which of the Righties is ready to speak to the issues involved in offshoring and huge negative trade balances when the day comes that we can no longer support massive deficits to obscure the effects? Because that's what's happening- the problems and obligations are just being piled up in the future. What happens when we get there? What happens when the Chinese and the Indians become consumer societies in their own right, and they don't need us any more to buy their products and services, but their bankers own our treasury notes and mortgages?

Yeh, sure, capital is going global, and the profit potential is huge- who profits? We've already seen that domestically there's no down in trickledown, that growth goes to the top and stays there, with the middle class treading water, and those lower down actually losing ground. Take away deficits, as we all know we must, eventually, and where does that leave us?

 

[Ferocious]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
......I suspect it's the same in many other occupations, there are probably guys with doctorates working garbage trucks.... education has little meaning when the industrial system that demands, needs, and rewards education is disappearing offshore.......

Not sure about doctorates elsewhere, but I know of quite a few Bachelor degreed people working hourly positions in the plant I work at. Several have engineering degrees and one of them has an MBA too.

 

[IronMentality]

Major U.S. companies such as General Electric and General Motors plan on getting most of their revenue outside of the U.S. within the next decade (GM nearly already does, I think about 40% comes from foreign business).

The consumer economies of China and India will also buy U.S. goods as well. One thing that however needs to be addressed, which would affect the trade imbalance between our countries, is software piracy, which over the long run has cost $250 Billion dollars to U.S. companies.

Japan was supposed to put us out of business in the 1980s, China and India will not do the same either.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

Fsck yeah, go into debt before you actually make a living. Hell of a way to start life.

If you really want to make a decent living, do honest and enjoyable work and not have to deal with pompous entitled dweebs who thinks their sh!t doesn't stink, get a job in the building trades and join a Union. They aren't going to outsource Construction and Home Building to India or China.


BTW, how are you going to pay for your higher education when they are cutting back on Student Loans?

 

[Zebo]

Race to the bottom and third world wages. While it's a nice that your factory worker can get futher education all those folks who now have that education are competing for a limited pool of jobs which lowers all salaries, simple supply and demand dictates that. More labor pool, for say accountants, than jobs they can pay $30,000 a year which they do nowadays!! They can pay less and less every year as more and more former factory worker get that accounting degree (or whatever degree/profession you choose). Race to the bottom. I've seen this myself. Entry level enigineers and scientists in the company I work for made the exact same 15 years ago as today.. Have rpices stayed the same? Homes? Heck no!

The medical profession is very smart in that they limit graduates and school openings to limit thier supply of labor keeping salaries relativly high. Of course hopsitals and HMO's have lobbied congress to let third word doctors to come in to bypass medical establishments power.

The bottom line is that if you consume more than you produce, as we do, you are liquidating your worth. You can see this everywhere - from national debt to china buying our land, companies, and instuments of debt like consumer loans. They get richer while we get poorer. Mexico, another country with a net loss, also has 10% unemployment, I sure as hell would'nt want to live there. But in Germanies 10% unemployment instead who is a net exporter and pays high for those who work, has high paid manufacturing sector, and has a rich social welfare system for those who don't or can't work.

I should say I don't blame the companies who outsource at all. It's the politicans and consumer who made this possible. Sure in a never ending fight for the bottom line companies are modivated to find the cheapest labor. But the politicans allowed them to pit US workers against third world workers ravaged by communism and still live in a human rights violating police state. Consumers, short sighted as they are, are always looking for best price regaurdless the world around them and tomorrow consequences. 2 million personal bankruptcies a year and insta loan cash centers popping up on every other corner should serve as enough proof what kind of short-sighted thinkers they are.

 

[IronMentality]

Germany and France have higher budget deficits as part of there total overall economy (GDP) then we do, not to mention double digit unemployment rates. There social welfare state is completely unsustainable and will require huge reforms in the coming years. In fact, France under 25 years of age unemployment rate is around 23%. Please do not use the European social welfare protectionist model as a way to defend against offshoring.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

For what job after graduated???

That's a good question, one that I've asked dozens of times of many people and never received an answer. Their solution starts and ends at "retrain", nevermind how people will cover their bills, health insurance for the family, tuition, books, etc, while "retraining".

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: IronMentality
Major U.S. companies such as General Electric and General Motors plan on getting most of their revenue outside of the U.S. within the next decade (GM nearly already does, I think about 40% comes from foreign business).

The consumer economies of China and India will also buy U.S. goods as well. One thing that however needs to be addressed, which would affect the trade imbalance between our countries, is software piracy, which over the long run has cost $250 Billion dollars to U.S. companies.

Japan was supposed to put us out of business in the 1980s, China and India will not do the same either.

Where are these "U.S. goods" you speak of? I can find lots of U.S. brand names, with "Made in China" on the tag.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

For what job after graduated???

That's a good question, one that I've asked dozens of times of many people and never received an answer. They're solution starts and ends at "retrain", nevermind how people will cover their bills, health insurance for the family, tuition, books, etc, while "retraining".

Do they ever mention what fields to "retrain" for? You know, one that they're not either trying to abolish (lawyers, union workers, etc.), or outsource to the lowest bidder?

For that matter, even if everyone were to get a college education, who's going to pay those kind of salaries when you now have an oversupply of "higher educated" people (that's even assuming those kinds of higher level jobs would be created for all those people...I doubt there's demand for 50+million college educated jobs in this country)? You're still going to have people working at McD's and Walmart making $10 an hour but now with a useless $50K education to pay off.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Where are these "U.S. goods" you speak of? I can find lots of U.S. brand names, with "Made in China" on the tag.

He means that stuff made in "Usa" (that city in Japan?)

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Where are these "U.S. goods" you speak of? I can find lots of U.S. brand names, with "Made in China" on the tag.

He means that stuff made in "Usa" (that city in Japan?)

I think it was actually Burma, which I believe is wear Bush '04 campaign gear used to be made.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: IronMentality
The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

ROFL! You're trying to sell us on education--the opiate of the masses?

How do you explain the scads of people with college degrees and advanced degrees who are either unemployed or severely underemployed, including people with years of experience?

If everyone spends time and money going to college and obtaining advanced degrees, will that alone magically create new jobs? In reality, only a small percentage of the jobs out there actually make any real use of college education anyway.

Do you know what a postdoc is? If advanced degrees are so wonderful how do you explain the existence of tens of thousands of postdocs? I'll tell you. After you spend ten years getting your bachelor's degree plus your science Ph.D. (high tech field...knowledge-based stuff...) you can...find a job working as a postdoctorate researcher! You can work as a gypsy scientist on two-three year stints for about $30,000/year with no job security and often without any benefits. Truth is, we have a huge oversupply of science Ph.D.'s (many have fled to law school in the hopes of doing patent law, creating an oversupply of people with two advanced degrees, MS/Ph.D. + JD).

How do you explain all of the unemployed and underemployed MBAs and lawyers who are out there?

Have you even tried to find a job with an advanced degree or a professional degree out there in the real world?

BTW--if you do get one of these degrees, better hurry up and find a job in your field fast after you graduate (like within 4 or 6 months) because if you don't you'll be tagged as a complete and total loser. Then you'll be unemployable in the field and your investment of time and money will be kaput, but you'll still get those student loan bills. Be sure to time things so that you don't graduate during a recession--no one will take that into account when they look at your resume and try to decide whether or not you're a loser. (After all, the economy was roses for them...there wasn't any recession or economic depression and meritocracy prevails--the good people would have found work so if you didn't find work during such a rosey economy you must be a loser--that's how professionals who do hiring think.)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: IronMentality

You get what you earn.

Are you sure? I'd like to believe that, but my experiences over the past number of years have led me to question the Myth of Meritocracy. How do you factor in good luck, bad luck, and the avoidance of bad luck? How do you factor in superficial people skills--some people with mediocre skills are just very likeable and good interviewers whereas others with exceptional intellectual ability and skills don't come of as being likeable at interviews. Many people also obtain positions through their personal contacts and not real objective merit.

It's always good to question dogma.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Race to the bottom and third world wages. While it's a nice that your factory worker can get futher education all those folks who now have that education are competing for a limited pool of jobs which lowers all salaries, simple supply and demand dictates that. More labor pool, for say accountants, than jobs they can pay $30,000 a year which they do nowadays!! They can pay less and less every year as more and more former factory worker get that accounting degree (or whatever degree/profession you choose).

What's really sad is that the people working the middle class and upper middle class jobs don't realize this. It's "other people" who are suffering. It's people who were too dumb to invest in education who are suffering. What's sad is that they don't understand basic economics. All of those people are going to go retrain and re-educate and come into their field and compete with them, happy to take their jobs for lower wages, and many of them will prove to be better and smarter.

Instead, the smug middle class and the upper middle class have the credit card type here-and-now concrete-bound mentality. It couldn't possibly happen to them! This couldn't possibly affect them!

The reality is that we're all interconnected in our national economy as much as we might entertain notions of living on our own individual economic merit-based islands. When some people suffer economic losses it's bad for everyone in some way.

I think the middle class and the upper middle class will figure it out--on their hides. "My children went to collge and now they're having a hard time finding work." "OMG! I was just laid off at age 53! What will I do?" Unfortunately by the time enough Americans come to understand global labor wage arbitrage it will probably be too late--we'll already be a third world country.

The medical profession is very smart in that they limit graduates and school openings to limit thier supply of labor keeping salaries relativly high.

If I could do life over again I would never make the mistake of not going to medical school. For a smart person who isn't a great interviewer it's the best gig in town and provides almost guaranteed financial success and social status. I don't feel badly when I hear about doctors and their "problems". Lots of people would love to have the problem of a guaranteed $150,000/year income plus prestige and all the women you could ever want to be down with.

The bottom line is that if you consume more than you produce, as we do, you are liquidating your worth. You can see this everywhere - from national debt to china buying our land, companies, and instuments of debt like consumer loans.

Exactly! Our trade deficit reflects this. We aren't getting richer--rather we're giving our land and assets away for ephermeral manufactured goods and services. If we were engaging in real trade--sending them manufactured goods and services in an amount equal to what they were sending us this wouldn't be such an issue.

Oh well. America today is an idiot society. Just look at the politicians we have elected. One of the great lessons of the novel Atlas Shrugged is that you cannot have economic prosperity without its underlying requirement--rationality. Now that America has become an idiot society filled with smug college-educated people who cannot recognize the reality of our economic situation, one of the requirements of our having economic prosperity is now gone--we have become an idiot society and we will suffer the economic devestation that comes with it.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Work harder then. Thats the American way isn't it?

One of those who thinks everything in life should be handing to them. :roll: Life isn't a priviledge; it what you make of it.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: IronMentality

You get what you earn.

Are you sure? I'd like to believe that, but my experiences over the past number of years have led me to question the Myth of Meritocracy. How do you factor in good luck, bad luck, and the avoidance of bad luck? How do you factor in superficial people skills--some people with mediocre skills are just very likeable and good interviewers whereas others with exceptional intellectual ability and skills don't come of as being likeable at interviews. Many people also obtain positions through their personal contacts and not real objective merit.

It's always good to question dogma.

Oh hes right about that. If Americans want to be stupid and sell themselves out they deserve scut work for scut pay in a dwindling labor market. If on the other hand they stick together fight for wide distribution of wealth they deserve that too. You're always paid what you're worth. Some people obviously don't feel thier worth much.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IronMentality
If the U.S. offshored every job that could be offshored to India or China, right now today, the unemployment rate would double from around 5% to 10%.

I read that in an old BusinessWeek talking about the emergence of China and India as a consumer economy. Frankly, I am not afraid of this -- all this would do is give us similar unemployment rates then Europe.

The answer? Go get yourself a graduate degree or back in school...

For what job after graduated???

That's a good question, one that I've asked dozens of times of many people and never received an answer. Their solution starts and ends at "retrain", nevermind how people will cover their bills, health insurance for the family, tuition, books, etc, while "retraining".

So all the people graduating today and in the future will never have a job? LOL