Officials: Zawahri Still Alive, Was Not There During Attack

jpeyton

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ISLAMABAD/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. airstrike on Pakistan village targeted al Qaeda's second-in-command, U.S. intelligence sources say, but Pakistani officials said Ayman al-Zawahri was not there and condemned the attack.

The strike near the Afghan border on Friday killed at least 18 people, including women and children, and three houses were destroyed, according to residents of Damadola village in Bajaur tribal area.

CIA-operated unmanned drones were believed to have been used in the attack, U.S. sources said. A Pakistani intelligence official said four missiles had been fired.

Pakistan condemned the airstrike and summoned U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker.

Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said he had no information about Zawahri, though another high-ranking Pakistani official said
Osama bin Laden's deputy was not in the village.

"Al-Zawahri was not there at the time," the official, who declined to be identified, told Reuters.

Al Arabiya satellite television said on Saturday Zawahri was alive, quoting a source which it said has contact with al Qaeda.

The United States has offered $25 million each for Egyptian Zawahri and bin Laden, who have been on the run since U.S.-led forces toppled
Afghanistan's Taliban government in 2001 after the September 11 attacks on U.S. cities.

They are believed to have been hiding along the border under the protection of Pashtun tribes.

Pakistani intelligence sources said Zawahri was believed to have made visits to the Bajaur area, though on Friday he was not in Damadola, 200 km (125 miles) northwest of Islamabad.

Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said in a statement foreigners had been in the vicinity, and were the probable target of the attack from forces based in Afghanistan.

"As a result of this act there has been loss of innocent civilian lives which we condemn," the ministry said.

Anger has been building in Pakistan over repeated U.S. attacks, and on Saturday hundreds of protesters chanted anti-American slogans at Inayat Killi village, near Damadola.

The incident came days after Pakistan, an important ally in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, lodged a strong protest with U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan, saying cross-border firing in the Waziristan tribal area last weekend killed eight people.

President Pervez Musharraf, addressing officials in the town of Swabi to the north of Islamabad, made only a passing reference to the attack in Bajaur, saying it was being investigated.

People from Damadola said no foreigners, only local people, were present and killed in Friday's attack.

"I know all the 18 people killed. There was neither Zawahri nor any other Arab among them. Rather they were all poor people of the area," Haroon Rashid, the area's National Assembly representative, was quoted by the Afghan Islamic Press news agency as saying.

U.S. sources in Washington said the remains of the dead would have to be examined to determine whether Zawahri among them.

But Pakistani intelligence sources said they had no knowledge of any bodies other than those belonging to villagers, though some intelligence sources said they had heard a pro-militant Muslim cleric may have removed the corpses of some foreigners.

Residents of Damadola said some visitors had come from Afghanistan to celebrate this week's Eid al-Adha festival, and one said he saw two bodies he believed belonged to outsiders.

Analysts say bin Laden's and Zawahri's network has lost much of its capability to launch attacks globally following a string of high profile arrests in Pakistan and elsewhere.

While they have been put in the shade somewhat by the exploits of al Qaeda's leader in
Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, they are still engender awe among Islamist militants and sympathizers.

Bin Laden and Zawahri teamed up in Pakistan in the late 1980s when both were involved in a jihad, or holy war, covertly backed by the United States, to end the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Zawahri, a doctor, was involved in Egypt's radical Muslim Brotherhood during the 1960s. He spent three years in jail after the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981, but was freed after being cleared by a court.

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As we all suspected, "Zawahri maybe dead" was simply a smokescreen for spilling the blood of innocent villagers. Whole families were incinerated because our best intelligence wasn't good enough, and the only thing we have to show for it is the anger of a nation of people who already disapproved of our actions.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
ISLAMABAD/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. airstrike on Pakistan village targeted al Qaeda's second-in-command, U.S. intelligence sources say, but Pakistani officials said Ayman al-Zawahri was not there and condemned the attack.

The strike near the Afghan border on Friday killed at least 18 people, including women and children, and three houses were destroyed, according to residents of Damadola village in Bajaur tribal area.

CIA-operated unmanned drones were believed to have been used in the attack, U.S. sources said. A Pakistani intelligence official said four missiles had been fired.

Pakistan condemned the airstrike and summoned U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker.

Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said he had no information about Zawahri, though another high-ranking Pakistani official said
Osama bin Laden's deputy was not in the village.

"Al-Zawahri was not there at the time," the official, who declined to be identified, told Reuters.

Al Arabiya satellite television said on Saturday Zawahri was alive, quoting a source which it said has contact with al Qaeda.

The United States has offered $25 million each for Egyptian Zawahri and bin Laden, who have been on the run since U.S.-led forces toppled
Afghanistan's Taliban government in 2001 after the September 11 attacks on U.S. cities.

They are believed to have been hiding along the border under the protection of Pashtun tribes.

Pakistani intelligence sources said Zawahri was believed to have made visits to the Bajaur area, though on Friday he was not in Damadola, 200 km (125 miles) northwest of Islamabad.

Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said in a statement foreigners had been in the vicinity, and were the probable target of the attack from forces based in Afghanistan.

"As a result of this act there has been loss of innocent civilian lives which we condemn," the ministry said.

Anger has been building in Pakistan over repeated U.S. attacks, and on Saturday hundreds of protesters chanted anti-American slogans at Inayat Killi village, near Damadola.

The incident came days after Pakistan, an important ally in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, lodged a strong protest with U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan, saying cross-border firing in the Waziristan tribal area last weekend killed eight people.

President Pervez Musharraf, addressing officials in the town of Swabi to the north of Islamabad, made only a passing reference to the attack in Bajaur, saying it was being investigated.

People from Damadola said no foreigners, only local people, were present and killed in Friday's attack.

"I know all the 18 people killed. There was neither Zawahri nor any other Arab among them. Rather they were all poor people of the area," Haroon Rashid, the area's National Assembly representative, was quoted by the Afghan Islamic Press news agency as saying.

U.S. sources in Washington said the remains of the dead would have to be examined to determine whether Zawahri among them.

But Pakistani intelligence sources said they had no knowledge of any bodies other than those belonging to villagers, though some intelligence sources said they had heard a pro-militant Muslim cleric may have removed the corpses of some foreigners.

Residents of Damadola said some visitors had come from Afghanistan to celebrate this week's Eid al-Adha festival, and one said he saw two bodies he believed belonged to outsiders.

Analysts say bin Laden's and Zawahri's network has lost much of its capability to launch attacks globally following a string of high profile arrests in Pakistan and elsewhere.

While they have been put in the shade somewhat by the exploits of al Qaeda's leader in
Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, they are still engender awe among Islamist militants and sympathizers.

Bin Laden and Zawahri teamed up in Pakistan in the late 1980s when both were involved in a jihad, or holy war, covertly backed by the United States, to end the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Zawahri, a doctor, was involved in Egypt's radical Muslim Brotherhood during the 1960s. He spent three years in jail after the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981, but was freed after being cleared by a court.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As we all suspected, "Zawahri maybe dead" was simply a smokescreen for spilling the blood of innocent villagers. Whole families were incinerated because our best intelligence wasn't good enough, and the only thing we have to show for it is the anger of a nation of people who already disapproved of our actions.


we're not even at war with pakistan, so it's ok to go and bomb villages within their territory? interesting. would have been nice had we actually killed the guy, but now we have egg all on our face. wonder how long it will be before pakistan government is overthrown by radicals, who will have nukes
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: rickn

we're not even at war with pakistan, so it's ok to go and bomb villages within their territory? interesting. would have been nice had we actually killed the guy, but now we have egg all on our face. wonder how long it will be before pakistan government is overthrown by radicals, who will have nukes

Not likely. The percentage of Pakistanis that are radicalized is relatively small, and they do not control major voting centers like Karachi and Islamabad. Don't get me wrong; Pakistan is a very religious country, but a majority are free-thinkers. Just look at their political history and nowhere will you see a radical ruling the country.
 

rickn

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Oct 15, 1999
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well, when foreign nations go dropping bombs in your country and your government does diddly squat about it, it kinda gives the kooks the ammo they need

they were ready to go to war with india over a lot less.
 

Future Shock

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Aug 28, 2005
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And don't discount all of the assasination attempts President Musharraff has survived - they have been launched by the conservative religious forces, and it only takes on of them to be successful to throw Pakistan into chaos...

FS
 

ntdz

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Aug 5, 2004
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My guess is that Pakistan gave the go ahead to the US to try to take him out...and they agreed that publically Pakistan would deny that and condemn the attacks.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: ntdz
My guess is that Pakistan gave the go ahead to the US to try to take him out...and they agreed that publically Pakistan would deny that and condemn the attacks.

I suspect that's right - I imagine we paid generously for the privilege. If they hadn't green-lighted this, it would be an act of war, and an amazingly bold and aggressive attack on the part of the US, against an "ally." I do see it as a bit of a silver-bullet attack, though - Pakistan simply can't allow a series of attacks against its civilians by the Great Satan, and I don't imagine they'll agree to many more like this one, considering how poorly it worked out.
 

ntdz

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Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: her209
Isn't Pakistan population anti-American anyways?

Yes, but that's why they can't allow American troops into Pakistan. The government is not on a strong footing, and any little thing can set it off and create a rebellion. It's basically a tight rope, Pakistan wants to help us, but they can only do so much before they piss their own people off too much.
 

arsbanned

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Dec 12, 2003
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More success for the U.S. in the "War on <whatever the fvck we're at war with at the moment>" :thumbsup:
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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It is BS like this that only makes al-qaeda stonger..

Iraq made al-qaeda stonger and every innocent we kill only creates more anger :(
 

GroundedSailor

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Feb 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: rickn

we're not even at war with pakistan, so it's ok to go and bomb villages within their territory? interesting. would have been nice had we actually killed the guy, but now we have egg all on our face. wonder how long it will be before pakistan government is overthrown by radicals, who will have nukes

Not likely. The percentage of Pakistanis that are radicalized is relatively small, and they do not control major voting centers like Karachi and Islamabad. Don't get me wrong; Pakistan is a very religious country, but a majority are free-thinkers. Just look at their political history and nowhere will you see a radical ruling the country.

Pakistans radicalized sections may be small but I would not underestimate their importance and reach among the less educated and rural population of that country or even in politics.

Pakistan law is largely based on Sharia law which attests to the influence of the religious radicals. They may not have been the rulers at any time but have had a strong influence on how the rulers govern, even under martial law. Pakistans political history has been one of instability, coups and military rule. Democratic governments have been few and far in between and most have had their term cut short one way or another.

The biggest fear is that the radicals get more powerful and somehow gain control of the govt. It'll be like a nuclear powered taliban. Not a pleasant scenario to envision. Which is why US accepts a military ruler as the lesser of the 2 evils.






 

tommywishbone

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May 11, 2005
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As I've said before; we will kill anyone we want, anywhere we want, and there is nothing anyone in the world can do to stop us. The US War Machine rolls on.... yawn.

Herr Bushler is laughing at those dead children.
 

BlancoNino

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Oct 31, 2005
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I'm really sick and tired of this administration trying to fight an efficient AND a politically correct war. Either up the arsenal and fight hard and efficiently, or don't fight at all.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I'm really sick and tired of this administration trying to fight an efficient AND a politically correct war. Either up the arsenal and fight hard and efficiently, or don't fight at all.

Ah yes, the old "black and white" worldview. Refuge of the stupid. Either we nuke every Muslim on the planet, or we give up and let them kill us all. :roll:

Fighting terrorism is as much about getting the moderate Muslims on our side as it is about killing the violent extremists. Why is that such a hard concept?
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I'm really sick and tired of this administration trying to fight an efficient AND a politically correct war. Either up the arsenal and fight hard and efficiently, or don't fight at all.

It's not about political correctness, it's about the law of war. As for efficiency, I see little basis for the proposition that we've emphasized it at all (other than the fact that, for political reasons, the Bush administration has declined to provide additional troops when they've been requested by fielded commanders).
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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The Pakistan govt. actually was with the U.S on almost everything they wanted.

Now the U.S pissed off their people..

If Pakistan continues to work with the U.S, their regime is in danger.
 

Generator

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Mar 4, 2005
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Another example of fine CIA intelligence. I guess some soldiers should build a few schools to make up for this murder.
 

Proletariat

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Dec 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: her209
Isn't Pakistan population anti-American anyways?

Yes, but that's why they can't allow American troops into Pakistan. The government is not on a strong footing, and any little thing can set it off and create a rebellion. It's basically a tight rope, Pakistan wants to help us, but they can only do so much before they piss their own people off too much.

They don't 'want' to help us. They have no choice.
 

BBond

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Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: her209
Isn't Pakistan population anti-American anyways?

I hate to be the one to break this to you but ever since The Fool took over just about everyone is anti-American.

Unfortunately the world has fallen into the same trap that many Americans fell for. They somehow have what Bush represents confused with America.

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I'm really sick and tired of this administration trying to fight an efficient AND a politically correct war. Either up the arsenal and fight hard and efficiently, or don't fight at all.


Let me guess .. you posted without thinking AGAIN

You also think the US can take on the world and win?

 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: Proletariat
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: her209
Isn't Pakistan population anti-American anyways?

Yes, but that's why they can't allow American troops into Pakistan. The government is not on a strong footing, and any little thing can set it off and create a rebellion. It's basically a tight rope, Pakistan wants to help us, but they can only do so much before they piss their own people off too much.

They don't 'want' to help us. They have no choice.

They have a choice.

Stop flooding your hate in this thread.

Evidence that they have no choice? ok thanks
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: her209
Isn't Pakistan population anti-American anyways?

Yes, but that's why they can't allow American troops into Pakistan. The government is not on a strong footing, and any little thing can set it off and create a rebellion. It's basically a tight rope, Pakistan wants to help us, but they can only do so much before they piss their own people off too much.

They don't 'want' to help us. They have no choice.

They have a choice.

Stop flooding your hate in this thread.

Evidence that they have no choice? ok thanks

Tell us, what choice do they have and how can they exercise it?

Majority of the urban, rural and tribal population are anti-US. The pro US facton is the political leadership and perhaps the few modern people in the cities, and perhaps the military. You might want to hang around with a few pakistanis to get an idea.


 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: her209
Isn't Pakistan population anti-American anyways?

Yes, but that's why they can't allow American troops into Pakistan. The government is not on a strong footing, and any little thing can set it off and create a rebellion. It's basically a tight rope, Pakistan wants to help us, but they can only do so much before they piss their own people off too much.

They don't 'want' to help us. They have no choice.

They have a choice.

Stop flooding your hate in this thread.

Evidence that they have no choice? ok thanks

Tell us, what choice do they have and how can they exercise it?

Majority of the urban, rural and tribal population are anti-US. The pro US facton is the political leadership and perhaps the few modern people in the cities, and perhaps the military. You might want to hang around with a few pakistanis to get an idea.

That's what I was talking about...the commoners don't matter, it's whos in charge, and the people in charge want to cooperate with us.