Official World Cup Soccer Thread

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Well if anyone read my previous post on my prior views about the game, here's my after game analysis.

Again just got back from the bar and it was a good game. Spain played exactly the way I had anticipated and how they've played throughout the entire WC. Slow, methodical, and always keeping control of the ball with short passes. They literally jam up the middle of the field with players and play keep away with the other team to tire them out and wait for an opportunity to press an attack. Very valid and good strategy and it paid off again.
....

:thumbsup:

this, totally. I know nothing about soccer. :D, but that's pretty much what I saw. Still kind of annoys me that the absence of one player can so dramatically affect a team...especially when the absence was illegitimate. ...but I'd also fault Germany for allowing such a weakness.
 

KeithTalent

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I agree with yuchai and it was something I was saying to my buddies. Because so many of the Spanish players play in Spain and even for the same team, the y are likely more comfortable playing with each other.

When Spain made some substituions last game, they were fielding close to a 75% Barca side (well roughly, I wasn't calculating), which definitely helps you as a team since you are alreasy so comfortable with each other. The number of games you play as a national side is miniscule compared to the number of club games played.

The Dutch flop more than the Germans though, so I'm a bit concerned about that if they get the calls. :hmm:

KT
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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I agree with yuchai and it was something I was saying to my buddies. Because so many of the Spanish players play in Spain and even for the same team, the y are likely more comfortable playing with each other.

When Spain made some substituions last game, they were fielding close to a 75% Barca side (well roughly, I wasn't calculating), which definitely helps you as a team since you are alreasy so comfortable with each other. The number of games you play as a national side is miniscule compared to the number of club games played.

The Dutch flop more than the Germans though, so I'm a bit concerned about that if they get the calls. :hmm:

KT

yeah, that's the shit that pretty much makes me want to pull for Spain, now. I freaking hate that about soccer.
 

KMFJD

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Aug 11, 2005
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Germany's weakness is that their entire play hinges on their starters. They play absolutely flawlessly when everyone is on the field: Klose, Muller, Schwartensteinerburgersteisensheffer--those 3 guys.

I agree that they are weak, though, b/c a great team needs to be able to compensate for missing one of those components.

However, this sport is kind of fucked up that some asshat in a black jersey can knock out one team's best player for the entirety of the next match simply b/c the asshat is fucking blind. Fuck that. yellow cards need a real review/appeal system.

How the fuck does one's chest = hand?

fuck that.

I've seen a player get yellow carded for diving, after pulling up his shirt and showing the cleat marks where he was kicked in the chest....

/Battle of Nuremberg
 

Zargon

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Nov 3, 2009
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spain owned the game for sure. the refs called a pretty loose game I thought

Really? I don't follow the Euro leagues too closely, but I thought it was mainly the English and Italian leagues that were widely considered the best until recently when Spain became stronger.

'recently' means they have been the best league overall for almost a decade. England(Premiere League) and Italy(Serie A) were collapsing at 2000 or so, Serie A fell much faster than the Permiership

Eh? Real Madrid could be one of the most successful clubs of all time..those jerks.

They've won more Champion's Leagues than any other club in history.

KT

YUP. 9 wins, 3 second places. AC Milan is second with 7 wins, 4 seconds.


ALl the what about Muller talk bores me, what if Spain hadnt blow 3-4 man up chances in the box? yeah exactly, all speculation and mental masterbaition.

Besides Pedro's cock up, he played GREAT. moved well, looked way better than Torres nonexistant self did the whole rest of the Cup IMO and he should start the final. Torres is slow and has poor feel of the ball(atleast he looks that way) and is barely match fit. He looked better this game because he was fresh when everyone else was spent
 

HumblePie

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Oct 30, 2000
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It's not that the Germans relied on one person, it's that they had crappy replacements. Trochowski is terrible! I cringed when I saw him playing against Argentina when they used him to replace either Muller, Klose, or Podolski to give them a breather. That's really all he is. Pure filler for a breather. Trying to rely on him through nearly the whole game was rough for the Germans. Not that they were still in capable of scoring, but he changes the entire flow of the offense for the Germans. When the Germans roll, they roll! They make all the correct runs, and passes, and flicks without looking. Why? They know where everyone is at any given moment. You switch out a few players and that entire concept changes. They couldn't adjust their play well enough and the lesser players brought them down enough to give Spain a weakness they could exploit. And exploit Spain did.

I'm not going to play the shoulda, coulda, woulda game because nothing is ever conclusive in professional soccer. However, I do know that it would have been a completely different game entirely had Muller been in. It's not that he's the only lynch pin or the team revolves around him, it's that he's one shiny cog in the perfectly synchronized team next to other shiny cogs. You lose him, Klose, Podolski, Schweinsteiger, or other key and shiny cog and the perfectly timed machine falls apart. As was evidenced by today's game. I think they are a well oiled machine that relies too much on the machine being just right.

As far as Spain, they have very quick mid fielders with great ball control. They may not that much endurance, but they make up for it with the fact that most of their team is made up of the same type of players. Quick, light on their feet, used to short passes of keep away. The keep away strategy of short passes by 4 to 6 people in the middle to make the other team tire out first is their whole strategy. My only problem is they lack any really good striker except Villa as evidenced today. When they did start their attack heavily in the second half, it was shot after shot after shot.... but most of them went wide, and/or lacked oomph. They just don't strike the ball on goal well as a team. Even Villa required 2 posts and a rebound off a post to get a goal against Paraguay :)

Netherlands on the other hand has a few exceptionally striking players. Sniejder, Robben, and Van Der Vaart (or is it Van Bronckhorst?) are all capable of making long range strikes for goals.



The next matchup is going to be interesting in my eyes. I'll give my pre-synopsis for it in a bit.
 
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zinfamous

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Jul 12, 2006
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It's not that the Germans relied on one person, it's that they had crappy replacements. Trochowski is terrible! I cringed when I saw him playing against Argentina when they used him to replace either Muller, Klose, or Podolski to give them a breather. That's really all he is. Pure filler for a breather. Trying to rely on him through nearly the whole game was rough for the Germans. Not that they were still in capable of scoring, but he changes the entire flow of the offense for the Germans. When the Germans roll, they roll! They make all the correct runs, and passes, and flicks without looking. Why? They know where everyone is at any given moment. You switch out a few players and that entire concept changes. They couldn't adjust their play well enough and the lesser players brought them down enough to give Spain a weakness they could exploit. And exploit Spain did.

I'm not going to play the shoulda, coulda, woulda game because nothing is ever conclusive in professional soccer. However, I do know that it would have been a completely different game entirely had Muller been in. It's not that he's the only lynch pin or the team revolves around him, it's that he's one shiny cog in the perfectly synchronized team next to other shiny cogs. You lose him, Klose, Podolski, Schweinsteiger, or other key and shiny cog and the perfectly timed machine falls apart.

exactly. they seem perfectly designed for all of those pieces. we've already seen what happened when Klose was out. same damn thing when Muller is denied.

It's not about one specific player, it's just that one of those elements missing is enough to weaken the rest of team.

But it's really a fault on the team that they can't replace these people. I'm not sure if you can say the same about most other international teams, or any other soccer team for that matter...but it's so apparent with Germany. It really falls on them to be able to plug those holes...but when you lose someone b/c of some fucking BS...it's just inexcusable for FIFA. :(
 

KeithTalent

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Yep, my biggest fear is the finishing. We've struggled with finishing all tournament and with Torres still giving nothing, it does not appear that will change much against The Dutch. All I can hope is we frustrate them with possession and the refs let both teams play.

KT
 

Zargon

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Nov 3, 2009
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Yep, my biggest fear is the finishing. We've struggled with finishing all tournament and with Torres still giving nothing, it does not appear that will change much against The Dutch. All I can hope is we frustrate them with possession and the refs let both teams play.

KT

Torres was a machine till he ripped his knee apart.

Pedro had some good shots touches etc.

but really. everyone crams the middle against spain, they do not get many remotely open shots, and when they do, they generally are blocked by the traffic game at the 18 and the penalty spot

albeit they bring alot of it on themselves, they greatly suffer from 'one pass too many' syndrome.

It's not about one specific player, it's just that one of those elements missing is enough to weaken the rest of team.

But it's really a fault on the team that they can't replace these people. I'm not sure if you can say the same about most other international teams, or any other soccer team for that matter...but it's so apparent with Germany. It really falls on them to be able to plug those holes...but when you lose someone b/c of some fucking BS...it's just inexcusable for FIFA. :(


yes its def a fault of the team/coach if its lack of depth. Spain was missing players as well, but was it that noticable?
 
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cfaalm

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Netherlands on the other hand has a few exceptionally striking players. Sniejder, Robben, and Van Der Vaart (or is it Van Bronckhorst?) are all capable of making long range strikes for goals.

The next matchup is going to be interesting in my eyes. I'll give my pre-synopsis for it in a bit.

Van Bronckhorst is a defender, but capable of such strikes, as seen in the match against Uruguay. He did that a couple of times for Feyenoord and Oranje. Spain hasn't made a lot of goals, but also didn't give much room to opponents, where the Dutch have left some openings. Funny now in retrospect how sure the Germans were they were going to meet Oranje in the finals.

I'll be interested in your pre-synopsis. It will be great to see both such eager teams play the WC final.
 

KeithTalent

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Yay, a lurker! Nice first post! :)

Torres is indeed a monster when he is on, but he has not looked the same at all. He looks tentative when he gets the ball in or near thebox. He can look decent bringing the ball in, but then he almost always hands it over or sends a meaningless shot in. It's a real shame.

KT
 

Zargon

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Yay, a lurker! Nice first post! :)

Torres is indeed a monster when he is on, but he has not looked the same at all. He looks tentative when he gets the ball in or near thebox. He can look decent bringing the ball in, but then he almost always hands it over or sends a meaningless shot in. It's a real shame.

KT

having had leg surgery then playing too shortly afterwords I can understand why.......
 

HumblePie

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My pre-synopsis for the upcoming Netherlands versus Spain final.

Netherlands up until now has been playing scrappy ball. They have several exceptional strikers such as Robben, Sneijder, and one of the Van's who are all capable of making epic shots on goal from anywhere inside and out of the 18. What they lack in finesse in play making they make up for in finesse in shots. But let me put it this way, they lack major finesse in play making. As I said they are a scrappy team that does whatever it can to move the ball up field. Their ball control skills aren't the greatest and they aren't the fastest, but there tenacity for going after the ball is ferocious. Just when you think a ball is stripped from them, a NED player manages to stick out a leg for a lucky lunge to get the ball back and pop it further up the field. Most soccer coaches would frown on all the lunging the Netherlands players tend to do, but for some reason it has worked well enough to get them into the World Cup finals this year. As I said, lady luck seems to have been riding the backs of the Orange boys.

Their defensive line is their primary weakness. Just about every goal scored against them has been over stupid defensive mistakes that made the defensive line for the orange team look like middle schoolers. Not that the line isn't capable of being great, it just feels they lack something. Chalk it up to bad communication, mis-manning, day dreaming, or what ever, but the fact remains the defensive line for the orange boys in my opinion could use some work. Almost every single goal against them was a defender or two being completely flat footed and/or reacting incorrectly to the situation.

However badly a mistake the defense has made, their keeper has been top notch. He has saved the orange bacon many times when they should have already been knocked out of the game. Without him, they would not be where they are currently in my opinion.

While watching their strangely terrible lunging, scrappy, play-style that I cringe over the game is speckled absolutely enjoyable highlight moments which bring a smile to my face. Even if I know Robben is going to flop damn near every chance he can.


As for Spain, my previous analysis of their game play remains the same. Short and quick with control is what it is all about. Short and quick players making short and quick passes in the middle of the field. Though the players may be quick, they are patient to the point of being slow to attack. They lack offense and not many of them seem to strike the ball that well. They also have a bad habit of hanging on to the ball too long when attacking (ala Pedro as an example from the last game) to try for the perfect shot. As someone else mentioned, they sometimes suffer from "one pass too many" syndrome in wanting to make the perfect shot on goal.

Their defense though is second to none. Their keeper is good if not exactly as good as the Netherlands keeper in my opinion but he's not a slouch. They rely too much on David Villa for scoring and capitalizing on attacks they generate. They work well at tiring out their opponents. However, as shown by the game with Switzerland that they lost, they do not do well against another defensive team. Their lack of offense versus a good defense virtually shuts down all forward progress by them. This seems to make them antsy and break away from their mode of controlling the ball in the middle to try desperate attacks. This leaves them open for counter attacks that Switzerland was able to make happen. Luckily Switzerland was not an offensive team or they might have had more goals.

One last item of note about the Spaniards that is both a strength and a weakness is they clog the middle. Their short pass game in the middle requires them to have 4 to 6 players very close together. For most teams, this is a disastrous thing to do. That is because most teams do not have 4 to 6 guys that are very quick, capable of one-touch passes and flicks with very good ball control and traps. Without those elements, trying to play the middle all the time is asking to have the ball stripped and jammed back down your goal. However, for teams like Spain that can do this, it can draw in the other team so that when Spain does spread out for an attack they catch the opposition by surprise.



So what is my verdict for the final game? It is this. Unless the Dutch shore up their defensive game the Spaniards are going to eat them for breakfast. On the flip-side, if the Dutch can remain patient, don't fall for running around endlessly chasing after the ball and getting tired, and wait for the counter attack opportunities they may surprise the world and take home the cup. Lady luck may also continue to favor the Dutch, but she can be fickle at the best of times. Personally I say that Spain is the clear winners baring any major defensive changes by the Dutch or pure luck going to them. While my brain says Spain my heart says Dutch because of my Dutch heritage and the fact I lived there for about 6 years. This makes me root for the underdogs this time around. I can only hope the Orange boys pull it out somehow.
 
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Zargon

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Nov 3, 2009
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....................


So what is my verdict for the final game? It is this. Unless the Dutch shore up their defensive game the Spaniards are going to eat them for breakfast. However, if the Dutch can remain patient, don't fall for running around endlessly chasing after the ball and getting tired, and wait for the counter attack opportunities they may surprise the world and take home the cup. Lady luck may also continue to favor the Dutch, but she can be fickle at the best of times. Personally, I say that Spain is the clear winners baring any major defensive changes by the Dutch or pure luck going to them. However, my Dutch heritage and the fact I lived there for about 6 years makes me root for the underdogs this time around. I think Spain will win it, but I hope the Orange boys pull it out somehow.

great write up.

I agree with pretty much eveything you said. I am torn, as I enjoy watching both teams, and have rooted for them before.
 

HumblePie

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Van Bronckhorst is a defender, but capable of such strikes, as seen in the match against Uruguay. He did that a couple of times for Feyenoord and Oranje. Spain hasn't made a lot of goals, but also didn't give much room to opponents, where the Dutch have left some openings. Funny now in retrospect how sure the Germans were they were going to meet Oranje in the finals.

I'll be interested in your pre-synopsis. It will be great to see both such eager teams play the WC final.

Yep, but while many I knew thought Germans were the clear winners, I knew other wise as can be seen in my previous post. I knew that missing Muller was going to bring down their game significantly to the point that I wasn't sure who was going to win. This was evidenced when they were without Klose before as well. They just don't have any good second stringers, or they never have the starters and the second stringers practice the same way together. For whatever reason, I knew the outcome of today's game was not cut and dry. Even though Spain won, I still could have seen Germany coming out on top. A 1 to 0 win is not that decisive. Germany's defense is a good defense and they weren't missing anyone there. Their keeper is also very good and is not a weak link like other teams I've seen with mediocre keepers. If the Germans had changed their strategy to counter the fact they were missing Muller and the Spanairds were going to play the short game they could have easily come out on top. I think their coach failed them though and it was not meant to be.
 

silverpig

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Jul 29, 2001
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Their defensive line is their primary weakness. Just about every goal scored against them has been over stupid defensive mistakes that made the defensive line for the orange team look like middle schoolers. Not that the line isn't capable of being great, it just feels they lack something. Chalk it up to bad communication, mis-manning, day dreaming, or what ever, but the fact remains the defensive line for the orange boys in my opinion could use some work. Almost every single goal against them was a defender or two being completely flat footed and/or reacting incorrectly to the situation.

True, but only partially. The dutch defensive line was top-notch in the round robin. It fell off in the knockout round because of substitutions. When they have their starting 4 back there, they are really quite good.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
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Spain won it today fair and square. You can argue about Müller and the BS yellow card all you want, but I just don't think Germany showed up. From minute one, Spain dominated possession and just had better ball control and passing. In fact, brilliant passing at times. They also had like 11 shots on goal to Germany's 2.

Personally, I think that damned Octopus Paul ruined it psychologically for ze Germans.

I will be cheering for the Orange come Sunday.
 

Blackjack200

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May 28, 2007
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Spain won it today fair and square. You can argue about Müller and the BS yellow card all you want, but I just don't think Germany showed up. From minute one, Spain dominated possession and just had better ball control and passing. In fact, brilliant passing at times. They also had like 11 shots on goal to Germany's 2.

Personally, I think that damned Octopus Paul ruined it psychologically for ze Germans.

I will be cheering for the Orange come Sunday.

Eh, Spain played well, but I thought Germany had their chances. Sometimes the team that wins seems like it dominated. I mean, Germany definitely deserved to move past Argentina, but are they really 4-0 better than Argentina? My personal opinion is no. I think German fans have a lot to look forward to considering the young team.

I'm glad we'll have a new WC champion this year. Not sure who I'm rooting for.
 

Fingolfin269

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Feb 28, 2003
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I hope the Spaniards make the Dutch cry. They will hopefully be truly in pain so that diving is not a necessity, those pansies.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Spain won it today fair and square. You can argue about Müller and the BS yellow card all you want, but I just don't think Germany showed up. From minute one, Spain dominated possession and just had better ball control and passing. In fact, brilliant passing at times. They also had like 11 shots on goal to Germany's 2.

Personally, I think that damned Octopus Paul ruined it psychologically for ze Germans.

I will be cheering for the Orange come Sunday.

Spain played better but they also fouled a couple fast breaks Germans had which should have been 11 meters. Strage game. They call every touch and flop in some games and nothing in others, even hard fouls and tackles in the box. Just another reason I can't warm up to it - inconsistancy and highly subjective reffing where ref is 12th man. Anyway....

Viva España! They deserve to win it all way they pressure on D - if's it's anything like basketball it takes twice the energy to play like that.