Official Terri Schiavo Thread

[Sysbuilder05]

?[/quote]

Where's the logic in giving pain medication to someone who can't feel pain?
[/quote]

Your right and she isn't. That morphine drip story was BS made up by her father to keep the protesters squawking for a few more days.

Hey Rip,hear where Bob Schindler is now SELLING a list of all donors to his daughters cause? Yeah,couldn't get his hands on ANY of that $300K that Michael got so now he's selling off names for marketing. Sick beyond belief......

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: DearQT
All of you pulling this political BS, where did you stand during the controversy of Elian Gonzalez? Did you condemn the Clinton administration and attorney general for defying court order and sending in federal law enforcement to capture Elian? Did you condemn him for interfering in family business? The hypocrisy here perplexes me. I will tell you my position at the time: I thought that it was a justified action because the government had no right interfering with the authority of a parent on the basis of the marketing or government system of his country of origin. It was a ridiculous intervention of the government to question the right of a parent to raise his child in his native country, which he saw fit. The same is my stance here. The man who claims to be her spouse has breached the contract of legal marriage, yet the court refused to remove his authority as a guardian. The court failed to see the conflict of interest here. This is sick and ridiculous. If there's any moment in my life that I ever wished that I were a criminal prosecutor as opposed to a defense attorney that I have always leaned toward, it is in this case. The inconsistencies in the whole evidence, the incompetence of Florida law enforcement and all of that makes me so angry. And if there's any moment that I was so angry to the extent of feeling resentment toward men, it is in this case. I have calmed down a bit, but I am still upset. I am also upset with the parents for being too naive to know what was going on in their daughter's life with her sad choice of spouse. If that were my child, the man and I would go to grave together before I sat there and watched that crap happen to my daughter. I wish I were a criminal prosecutor to investigate this whole matter and press for justice--even if I stood to lose my career. Let this be a motivation....

Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Fyi. Michael Schiavo should be investigated. E-mail the Coroner's Office and insist on an autopsy so we can find out the truth.


If Terri ultimately dies, it is the publically stated intention of Michael Schiavo to have her immediately cremated. The Pinellas County Medical Examiner's office (District 6) would need to certify such cremation.

review the policy Link

The Medical Examiner should NOT do so if there is a question about the proximate cause of her death (or face adverse licensing action in Florida).

For future reference, though I hope it need not be used any time soon, the email for the Coroner's office is mailto:wpellan@co.pinellas.fl.us.

Should Terri die, everyone must immediately demand a waiver of certification for cremation and an investigation, including autopsy to determine proximate (and immediate) cause of death. Since Dr. Baden (forensic pathologist) believes the injuries are not consistent with Michael Schiavo's story, an autopsy would perhaps develop evidence that would put Michael Schiavo behind bars, and perhaps "retire" the miserable excuse of a judge, George Greer.

Link

MS has already odered an autopsy upon her death. Next baseless allegation....

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Abraxas
Insurance. On the incredibly off possibility they are wrong about her ability to feel pain, this will ensure she doesn't.

Oh, so she could be feeling pain? If there's a doubt, shouldn't the courts be erring on the side of life?

"The brain of such patients is functioning only at a very rudimentary level, said Dr. Kenneth V. Iserson of the University of Arizona Health Sciences Center in Tucson. They cannot feel pain, express themselves or receive communication."

If she in a vegetative state, why is she getting morphine?

Why aren't their cameras in the room? If she is dying a peaceful and traquil death like Schiavo and his attorney say, let's see the proof.

Sorry RIP, her privacy to die in peace and in private trumps your selfish little needs. Next...

 

[CaptnKirk]

She stood 5'3'' and weighed 250 Lbs. - not a good start.

She had lost 140 Lbs. to get down to 110 Lbs., and had become
bulimic in her keeping her weight off - not a good follow up.

Her heart stoppage was due to an electrolyte (potassium) imbalance
which was an improper treatment for that bulimia by the doctor that
was sued in the malpractice litigation - wrong medication.

Anyone here know what is used when a person is terminated by lethal injection ?
They use a Potassium Imbalance to stop the heart.
Lethal Injection

 

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

And you evaded the questions, didn't you?

I'll admit that my post there was primarily emotional, and it was intended to be that. You should be the last person telling me that I failed to familiarize myself with this case. Ask everyone around, and they'll tell you that I'm the biggest skeptic on this earth who seeks direct evidence and evaluates it myself. I also lean toward giving people the benefit of doubt and tend to defend people, but this case is beyond defending. I could sit here and tell you why I am of the position that I am after evaluating all available direct evidence from court proceedings, medical charts, hospital discharge summary, testimonies, affidavits, profile of the so-called husband, profile of the unfortunate victim, etc. But even for the little that I have presented, no one cared to look at the direct evidence. It seems fruitless to present my case. People as usual, especially one like yourself, are looking at this matter along political lines. It saddens me that people put politics before morals and consistency. I am not saying that you could not look at this matter without regards to politics and still come of an opposite opinion. However, most people are not even doing that.

Funny you concluded that I was Republican. *Chuckling!* You couldn't be farthest from the truth. I have no political affiliations. I deal with every situation on a case-by-case basis. I listen to an openly liberal radio station when Republicans are in power. I listen to conservative stations, which are many, when Democrats are in power. The purpose is for a balance of information and ideas. I figure each side fails to be critical of their government when it's their political party, but they tend to be critical and submit information when it isn't. I don't think you accused me of being Republican when you saw my position on the war on Iraq.

This is someone's life and it's sickening to think that hearsay is sufficient evidence to qualify as clear and convincing evidence. It is also sickening that the DA brushed off the request to investigate this case, particularly the bone scan, arguing that it had exceeded the statute of limitation. It is sick that the judge admitted that the bone scan would possibly be an interesting pursuit but said it was not relevant to Theresa Marie Schiavo in 2003(?) without explanation of how it was irrelevant. If the investigation at the end shows no foul play, that is fine with me. But it is extreme negligence and incompetency to fail to investigate this case. Look at the weak circumstantial evidence they had against Scott, yet it didn't stop the DA from pursuing his prosecution and seeing to his conviction. There are many unanswered questions made of both circumstantial and empirical evidence in this case. If it exonerates everyone at the end, fine. But freakin' do a full investigation!

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: DearQT
All of you pulling this political BS, where did you stand during the controversy of Elian Gonzalez? Did you condemn the Clinton administration and attorney general for defying court order and sending in federal law enforcement to capture Elian? Did you condemn him for interfering in family business? The hypocrisy here perplexes me. I will tell you my position at the time: I thought that it was a justified action because the government had no right interfering with the authority of a parent on the basis of the marketing or government system of his country of origin. It was a ridiculous intervention of the government to question the right of a parent to raise his child in his native country, which he saw fit. The same is my stance here. The man who claims to be her spouse has breached the contract of legal marriage, yet the court refused to remove his authority as a guardian. The court failed to see the conflict of interest here. This is sick and ridiculous. If there's any moment in my life that I ever wished that I were a criminal prosecutor as opposed to a defense attorney that I have always leaned toward, it is in this case. The inconsistencies in the whole evidence, the incompetence of Florida law enforcement and all of that makes me so angry. And if there's any moment that I was so angry to the extent of feeling resentment toward men, it is in this case. I have calmed down a bit, but I am still upset. I am also upset with the parents for being too naive to know what was going on in their daughter's life with her sad choice of spouse. If that were my child, the man and I would go to grave together before I sat there and watched that crap happen to my daughter. I wish I were a criminal prosecutor to investigate this whole matter and press for justice--even if I stood to lose my career. Let this be a motivation....

Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

im not sure any one here has defended the gonzalez case. in fact, from what i have seen in here, many are basically saying "two wrongs dont make a right" and, beyond that, you have no way to be able to identify any of the people on one side of this argument as being on any side of that particular argument. it is the sort of baseless hate-speech that wins listeners on talk radio, but has no part of actual discussion. if you would like to discuss EG and the problems with that, perhaps you should start another thread on it and ask for peoples opinions on it.

 

[HeaterCore]

For a guy who's oddly fixated on people's opinion of him, going on at length about "evaluating all available direct evidence," you make some pretty basic errors that could've been figured out by the slightest investigation.

First, you might've checked the definition of hearsay, which involves opinion evidence of third parties. If, for example, Michael Schiavo had testified that Terri's best friend had said Terri wouldn't want to live in this situation, that would be hearsay. Terri herself telling someone she wouldn't want to live like this obviously isn't hearsay under any legal definition (though it's refreshing to know you think your legal judgment superior to that of the 18 judges who have looked at this case). Moreover, since the question was what Terri would've wanted, and barring a living will (which isn't required for people in a PVS in Florida) what possible evidence could be better than her own statements? Diane Warwick?

So, just to make sure that all the nutters out there who are repeating this charge ad infinitum hear this, THE EVIDENCE IN QUESTION HERE WAS NOT HEARSAY BY ANY POSSIBLE STANDARD. You can impeach its credibility all you want, and that's fine; personally, I find that the original decision gave too much credence to the testimony of Michael and those on his side, but then, I wasn't in the courtroom to hear all of the testimony. But the decision was not based on hearsay. Period.

Second, echoing a GOP talk-radio talking point (or perhaps you read it on Newsmax?), you claim that the Clinton administration "defied court order" in taking Elian Gonzalez out of his Miami relatives' home. If you had read the 11th Circuit decision preceding the raid, i.e. "evaluated all of the direct evidence," you would know that the court enjoined any party, government or otherwise, from taking Elian outside of the United States before his case could be decided. The decision said nothing about whether he should or should not be reunited with his father inside the United States, which is what Reno did. After he rejoined his father, the two stayed in the country for two months while the courts analyzed the propriety of the INS decision to reunite Elian with his father. Once the court signed off on that decision, they left -- but not before. The Clinton administration did not violate a court order in that case, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the result.

Maybe you should "freakin' do a full investigation!" before you mouth off about legal matters beyond your knowledge.

-HC-

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

Funny you concluded that I was Republican. *Chuckling!*

Knee jerk reactionaries are all Republicans? I concluded nothing about your political affiliation. I concluded your were clueless about the facts in this case.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I repeat . . . morphine (or other analgesics) are often given during end-of-life even if we don't believe the patient is suffering. Why? Medicine is a humanistic art and mechanistic science. Since both are fallible . . . art and science . . . we err on the side of providing maximal comfort.

For the record, it's not very common to kill someone with an opiate overdose . . . in the hospital. We kill people all the time by other means but iatrogenic opiate (morphine, codeine, demerol) deaths are rare. Now we do "kill" people with barbituates . . . but usually that's intentional or just malpractice.

 

[arsbanned]

Yeah, we had to take my sister off life support a few months back and the morphine drip continued until her last breath. Heck, it probably went on a few minutes after she was gone.
That is a life changing event.
Too bad the Shindlers destroyed any chance of their daughter passing with dignity.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Media Whore to the Rescue . . .

Jesse Jackson - why don't you just go away . . . or are you there to hog the spotlight ?

 

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

Funny you concluded that I was Republican. *Chuckling!*

Knee jerk reactionaries are all Republicans? I concluded nothing about your political affiliation. I concluded your were clueless about the facts in this case.

No, don't pretend you don't understand me. You said in another thread where I posted my opinion on this subject: "So do tell.... if these people are telling the truth, why are they trying so hard to make sure that people like you that use right wing blogs as their news source, find the "info" you are looking for when making your judgments?"

I didn't respond to your post because I thought that it was silly to respond to a silly assumption. However, I addressed it here because once again, you made an assumption as to where I was coming from.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

Funny you concluded that I was Republican. *Chuckling!*

Knee jerk reactionaries are all Republicans? I concluded nothing about your political affiliation. I concluded your were clueless about the facts in this case.

No, don't pretend you don't understand me. You said in another thread where I posted my opinion on this subject: "So do tell.... if these people are telling the truth, why are they trying so hard to make sure that people like you that use right wing blogs as their news source, find the "info" you are looking for when making your judgments?"

I didn't respond to your post because I thought that it was silly to respond to a silly assumption. However, I addressed it here because once again, you made an assumption as to where I was coming from.

I concluded your were clueless about the facts in this case, I stand by my assertion. Don't parrot right wing talking points when the facts trump you.

 

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: DearQT

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Zzz familiarize yourself with the facts in this case. Your rant was that of a kneejerk reactionary. Facts trump your baseless speculations. Next...

Funny you concluded that I was Republican. *Chuckling!*

Knee jerk reactionaries are all Republicans? I concluded nothing about your political affiliation. I concluded your were clueless about the facts in this case.

No, don't pretend you don't understand me. You said in another thread where I posted my opinion on this subject: "So do tell.... if these people are telling the truth, why are they trying so hard to make sure that people like you that use right wing blogs as their news source, find the "info" you are looking for when making your judgments?"

I didn't respond to your post because I thought that it was silly to respond to a silly assumption. However, I addressed it here because once again, you made an assumption as to where I was coming from.

I concluded your were clueless about the facts in this case, I stand by my assertion. Don't parrot right wing talking points when the facts trump you.

At the time you made that statement, I hadn't even provided any links; rather, you were the one providing links. It appears you forget your own statements.

Secondly, news sources does not mean correct information. For instance, I was watching CNN yesterday on "Who was Terry Schiavo?" Well, I noted that they gave a false information that Terry Schiavo had a heart attack, which she didn't! It immediately made me question other information, in spite of how little the details, they gave; and notwithstanding the subjective information that they passed on as factual. If you note, even for those links I have provided, they're both from sources that clearly have biases. However, the articles that I suggested people read were direct sources, such as Terri's hospital discharge summary and the court proceedings. Have you heard of the fallacy of red herring? It is what you have engaged in here. You automatically disqualified the content of the articles by arguing that the site from which the legitimate article was linked has a clear [political] bias. Does, say, Charles Manson discovering that the earth was round make it false? Is not the discovery independent of his evil deeds?

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Fyi. Michael Schiavo should be investigated. E-mail the Coroner's Office and insist on an autopsy so we can find out the truth.


If Terri ultimately dies, it is the publically stated intention of Michael Schiavo to have her immediately cremated. The Pinellas County Medical Examiner's office (District 6) would need to certify such cremation.

review the policy Link

The Medical Examiner should NOT do so if there is a question about the proximate cause of her death (or face adverse licensing action in Florida).

For future reference, though I hope it need not be used any time soon, the email for the Coroner's office is mailto:wpellan@co.pinellas.fl.us.

Should Terri die, everyone must immediately demand a waiver of certification for cremation and an investigation, including autopsy to determine proximate (and immediate) cause of death. Since Dr. Baden (forensic pathologist) believes the injuries are not consistent with Michael Schiavo's story, an autopsy would perhaps develop evidence that would put Michael Schiavo behind bars, and perhaps "retire" the miserable excuse of a judge, George Greer.

Link

MS has already odered an autopsy upon her death. Next baseless allegation....

also don't forget that the forensic pathologist, after knowing the full history, says the injuries are consistent with falling and resuscitation.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Wait a minute !

here's something from your last post:
Secondly, news sources does not mean correct information. For instance, I was watching CNN yesterday on "Who was Terry Schiavo?" Well, I noted that they gave a false information that Terry Schiavo had a heart attack, which she didn't! It immediately made me question other information, in spite of how little the details,

When just about everyone in the entire world, Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, and her family agree that she had a HEART-ATTACK,
where did you get the impression that she didn't ?
What is your source for this assumption ? Do you think that she just is faking the PVS ?

 

[umbrella39]

I don't care if you feel there was a conflict of interest or a breech of his marrige contract. LOL. Marrige contract. He is and should be her legal guardian regardless of who he has shacked up with since then. Her wishes have been determined and her wishes will be carried out. Hearsay! LOL.

I don't care if you think suspect there was foul play. Let me know when he figured out how to lower her potassium levels which led to her collapse. Your knocking of the courts and the Florida Law Enforcement is laughable to me. The courts did their job and did it correctly. Time to move on to the next cause... And don't kid yourself, your resentment towards men seems to prevail. :roll: Her Potassium Deficency. Personal statements from her friends. The fact that she drank over 10 large glasses of a diuretic a day. And then the medical findings of facts that many , many doctors all stated in the medmal suit. That's the proof of her condition. Agree to disagree. Michael is guilty of being a MAN in the same time as Scott Petterson. For that he will be forever guilty in millions of womens eyes regardless of the facts.

 

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Wait a minute !

here's something from your last post:
Secondly, news sources does not mean correct information. For instance, I was watching CNN yesterday on "Who was Terry Schiavo?" Well, I noted that they gave a false information that Terry Schiavo had a heart attack, which she didn't! It immediately made me question other information, in spite of how little the details,

When just about everyone in the entire world, Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, and her family agree that she had a HEART-ATTACK, where did you get the impression that she didn't ?
What is your source for this assumption ? Do you think that she just is faking the PVS ?

No, the official report is that she had a cardiac arrest. Read linked hospital discharge summary.

Originally posted by: jhu

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Fyi. Michael Schiavo should be investigated. E-mail the Coroner's Office and insist on an autopsy so we can find out the truth.


If Terri ultimately dies, it is the publically stated intention of Michael Schiavo to have her immediately cremated. The Pinellas County Medical Examiner's office (District 6) would need to certify such cremation.

review the policy Link

The Medical Examiner should NOT do so if there is a question about the proximate cause of her death (or face adverse licensing action in Florida).

For future reference, though I hope it need not be used any time soon, the email for the Coroner's office is mailto:wpellan@co.pinellas.fl.us.

Should Terri die, everyone must immediately demand a waiver of certification for cremation and an investigation, including autopsy to determine proximate (and immediate) cause of death. Since Dr. Baden (forensic pathologist) believes the injuries are not consistent with Michael Schiavo's story, an autopsy would perhaps develop evidence that would put Michael Schiavo behind bars, and perhaps "retire" the miserable excuse of a judge, George Greer.

Link

MS has already odered an autopsy upon her death. Next baseless allegation....

also don't forget that the forensic pathologist, after knowing the full history, says the injuries are consistent with falling and resuscitation.

Huh? Could you cite your source? What forensic pathologist said that without examining her? 😕

 

[CaptnKirk]

No, the official report is that she had a cardiac arrest. Read linked hospital discharge summary.

And just what, pray tell. do you think that Cardiac Arrest is ?

A friend of mine died Thursday evening of 'Cardiac Arrest' - a Massive Heart Attack.

 

[HeaterCore]

Cardiac arrest...heart attack...to the general public, do you really think there's any difference? And in this case, is there any practical difference between cardiac arrest brought on by electrolyte imbalance and a heart attack leading to cardiac arrest? Her heart stopped; her brain was deprived of oxygen; the end. If that's the sort of "factual error" you're going to attack, we're going to be here for awhile trying to figure out what the meaning of the word "is" is....

-HC-

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
No, the official report is that she had a cardiac arrest. Read linked hospital discharge summary.

And just what, pray tell. do you think that Cardiac Arrest is ?

A friend of mine died Thursday evening of 'Cardiac Arrest' - a Massive Heart Attack.

Well, the distinction is Cardiac Arrest means the heart actually stops beating. You can still have a heart attack (Myocardial Infarction) without your heart stopping. There is a distinct medical difference between the two, but to the general public they're pretty much one in the same.

 

[preCRT]

Am I the only one laughing at the absurdity of arguing over a brain-gone woman with a headless model? :laugh:😀😛

 

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
No, the official report is that she had a cardiac arrest. Read linked hospital discharge summary.

And just what, pray tell. do you think that Cardiac Arrest is ?

A friend of mine died Thursday evening of 'Cardiac Arrest' - a Massive Heart Attack.

There's a difference between the two! Heart attack entails cardiac arrest, but cardiac arrest does not necessarily infer a heart attack. From your link:

"Other factors besides heart disease and heart attack can cause cardiac arrest. They include respiratory arrest, electrocution, drowning, choking and trauma. Cardiac arrest can also occur without any known cause."'

Besides, it's unusual for someone that young to have a heart attack.

 

[Riprorin]

Why is Michael Sciavo's attorney so eager to point out that there are flowers in the room, soft music, and a teddy tucked under Terri's arrm?

Why not give her what she really needs, FOOD AND WATER.