**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[CVSiN]

Er, I may have the wrong idea what a BG is...I assumed it was an instance designed for PvP combat? Or is that what it is and you get rewards for beating other teams in PvP?

What's a WZ btw?

Warzones are queued PVP scenarios there are 3 currently.
you can join the queue starting at L10

you will receive PVP badges .. credits.. and exp win or lose.

you can make quite a bit of cash and extra exp doing this combined with questing when the queue isnt up.

and this is how you get your PVP gear and weps.. as the badges come fast.

 

[HarvardAce]

I have to say I'm not too interested in BGs, for that I can play BF3 or whatever. I prefer PvP servers where you can attack people wherever, and where winning or losing means something.

Warzones (what BGs are called in SWTOR) are instanced, team, objective-based PVP with around 2-3 groups (8-12 players) per team. One is a "conquest" type map, another is an "assault" type map, and the last is an interesting take on capture the flag that is kind of a cross between rugby, American football, and ultimate frisbee...only with booby traps and light sabers. While I do believe you get "valor" points for generic open-world PVP (which can unlock higher-level PVP gear), you don't get any (maybe as much?) PVP currency with which you can buy the PVP items.

That said, there are specific open-world PVP areas that are not instanced and do have objectives that do have specific rewards. These areas are PVP-enabled in both PVE and PVP servers. Additionally, there is one area on Tatooine that is completely open-PVP -- anyone can attack anyone there, even on the same side -- and there are specific (and unique) rewards for that area as well.

And also...does that game lag badly if you've got 20 people fighting? 30? 50? etc.

I didn't participate in any open-world PVP, but aside from a random 20-30 second server hiccup a handful of times throughout my entire beta, I never noticed any lag. This included in warzones where the entire team from both sides were in the same area duking it out.

And another thing...on PvP servers...if say, planets have to be triple instanced, that would seem to present a problem for hunting down your enemies. They might be in an instance of the world that you can't get into.

Note that "instanced" is used a bit differently than a traditional MMO "instance" in this case. In the traditional sense, an "instance" is a copy of a specific area (usually a dungeon) that is only for your specific group/raid. While there is that version of instancing in the game (both for dungeons and story-specific areas that are instanced for your specific stage in the story), there is also the ability to do zone-wide "instancing" which is sometimes called "sharding." In other words, the entire zone is copied and players are (randomly) assigned to a specific shard. However, you can at all times see the number of shards and you can switch to a specific shard through the UI. I am not sure how often you can switch shards, but I do know that if you join a group and are not in the same shard as your group leader, you will be automatically prompted to "move" to his/her shard. Therefore, if you are hunting a specific target, you merely need to find out what shard he or she is on, and you can make sure you are in the same shard.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

When you say "PvP gear" does that refer only to the fact that it comes as PvP rewards, or does it also grant special benefits for PvP that don't matter for PvE?

I mean, I would be interested in warzones insofar as a means to obtain that gear, but the true joy of PvP is to take command of a zone in the real, non-instanced world. Or indeed, to hunt your guild's enemies and destroy them wherever they might be in the world. Speaking of that, is there any way to tell where people are? Like /who Playername and it tells you their zone?

I would like to have seen TOR have a PvP server that you can choose to play on where it's always open to kill your own side - much like Rallos of EQ. Don't get me wrong, such a server should have a 5 level max range to prevent level 50s griefing whole zones full of level 20s. But when everyone can attack everyone that makes it more about guilds than about sides. If all you can do is attack the other side, it makes it impersonal. It makes it more like playing CoD with hitpoints since the enemy is the enemy and that's that.

 

[CVSiN]

When you say "PvP gear" does that refer only to the fact that it comes as PvP rewards, or does it also grant special benefits for PvP that don't matter for PvE?

I mean, I would be interested in warzones insofar as a means to obtain that gear, but the true joy of PvP is to take command of a zone in the real, non-instanced world. Or indeed, to hunt your guild's enemies and destroy them wherever they might be in the world. Speaking of that, is there any way to tell where people are? Like /who Playername and it tells you their zone?

I would like to have seen TOR have a PvP server that you can choose to play on where it's always open to kill your own side - much like Rallos of EQ. Don't get me wrong, such a server should have a 5 level max range to prevent level 50s griefing whole zones full of level 20s. But when everyone can attack everyone that makes it more about guilds than about sides. If all you can do is attack the other side, it makes it impersonal. It makes it more like playing CoD with hitpoints since the enemy is the enemy and that's that.

at L40-50 the PVP gear does have a PVP only stat on it that does help in PVP.
as well as fantastic weps and armour at 20-40 and 50 that are fully moddable for the chest.

there is a Faction FFA area on tat called Outlaws Den that has chests with money and PVP tokens in them... as well as a rare spawn vendor that has a rare L50 speeder on it.. while in that area.. any level any faction is killable.

No you cannot /who the opposite faction.. only your own side..

the 2 factions are kept completely separate you cannot talk to them no inspect them or anything else.. the only exception the is cross faction GTN.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

the 2 factions are kept completely separate you cannot talk to them no inspect them or anything else.. the only exception the is cross faction GTN.

Oh, yes...definitely there needs to be a PvP server where it's free for all, anyone can kill anyone and you can indeed talk to anyone. No trash talk? No communication at all? Wow.

I mean, on the one hand, if you can't talk to the other faction, that enhances the pvp aspect, they are the enemy, even on PvE servers...but at the same time, if the enemy is who the game tells you is the enemy, what's the point? On a free for all server at least people can choose whether to be the pks or the anti pks. Or the sheep who try to avoid both.

I'm beginning to wonder if, even if the PvP combat mechanics are perfect, if it would still be enjoyable with no communication. Can you at least see the name of the person on your target?

 

[CVSiN]

Oh, yes...definitely there needs to be a PvP server where it's free for all, anyone can kill anyone and you can indeed talk to anyone. No trash talk? No communication at all? Wow.

I mean, on the one hand, if you can't talk to the other faction, that enhances the pvp aspect, they are the enemy, even on PvE servers...but at the same time, if the enemy is who the game tells you is the enemy, what's the point? On a free for all server at least people can choose whether to be the pks or the anti pks. Or the sheep who try to avoid both.

I'm beginning to wonder if, even if the PvP combat mechanics are perfect, if it would still be enjoyable with no communication. Can you at least see the name of the person on your target?

yes and guild and titles..

The games you are describing died with UO, SB, and EQ..

the market has moved on from those games.. most people do not stand for that type of server..
especially in a game like this where Story and Lore are the focus.. in this time period the Republic and the Empire are not in open warfare anyway.. it's more of a Cold War type thing going on..

this game is far more focused on story than PVP..

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

yes and guild and titles..

The games you are describing died with UO, SB, and EQ..

the market has moved on from those games.. most people do not stand for that type of server..
especially in a game like this where Story and Lore are the focus.. in this time period the Republic and the Empire are not in open warfare anyway.. it's more of a Cold War type thing going on..

this game is far more focused on story than PVP..

The market doesn't "move on" from that. Yes, there are only a few players, in the grand scheme of things, that want it, that's why I'm simply saying there should be A server like that. I'm sure there are enough that want it to justify it. Just like there was in EQ. I'm not saying the whole game should be designed and made that way, just one server. If I were saying to design the whole game that way, sure, you'd have a point.

I played on Rallos for 5 years 1999-2004, it wasn't a ghost town...lots of enemies and allies to fight with.

Here's a thought I have. So, there's this "Outlaw's Den" where it's full open PvP. What exactly is the expected expansion policy of TOR? Continually and annually expanding the world like EQ did? So each expansion would need an Outlaw's Den?

 

[CVSiN]

The market doesn't "move on" from that. Yes, there are only a few players, in the grand scheme of things, that want it, that's why I'm simply saying there should be A server like that. I'm sure there are enough that want it to justify it. Just like there was in EQ. I'm not saying the whole game should be designed and made that way, just one server. If I were saying to design the whole game that way, sure, you'd have a point.

I played on Rallos for 5 years 1999-2004, it wasn't a ghost town...lots of enemies and allies to fight with.

um bro.... 2004 in video game years is an eternity.. I played back then too.. as well as Shadowbane and UO as a DreadLord PK.. but I grew up as did most people from that generation.. ganking and being ganked isnt cool anymore..

the market has moved on.. PVE servers are almost 2-1 more popular these days with limited PVP..

not to mention I highly doubt Lucas Arts would sign off on that breach of the lore..
they approve everything that goes on in the game lore wise..
I imagine it was quite a strech to even get the small FFA zone added.

I agree you might have enough to fill 1 server.. but in this game it would not work.. you have to play it to understand.
the game is 'different"

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

um bro.... 2004 in video game years is an eternity.. I played back then too.. as well as Shadowbane and UO as a DreadLord PK.. but I grew up as did most people from that generation.. ganking and being ganked isnt cool anymore..

the market has moved on.. PVE servers are almost 2-1 more popular these days with limited PVP..

not to mention I highly doubt Lucas Arts would sign off on that breach of the lore..
they approve everything that goes on in the game lore wise..
I imagine it was quite a strech to even get the small FFA zone added.

I agree you might have enough to fill 1 server.. but in this game it would not work.. you have to play it to understand.
the game is 'different"

I just went to the TOR forums and am seeing some reassuring info. People talking about "if it's red it's dead" etc.

The only thing is, for me, part of it is making enemies that you, upon seeing them, go out of your way to attack. That you have to MAKE as enemies, not that the game pre-designates them for you. When you're expected to attack ALL of the other faction, and can't communicate with them, how do you make true enemies?

It's just sad that MMO PvP is evolving (to you, devolving to me) to where it's really just an FPS with hit points. I understand that Star Wars might be walking a tight rope with storyline requirements, but surely the entire MMO industry isn't devolving like that. I'd ask how WoW is, but I want to get in on something within its first 2 months of life, not start in an already matured game.

 

[velillen]

I just went to the TOR forums and am seeing some reassuring info. People talking about "if it's red it's dead" etc.

The only thing is, for me, part of it is making enemies that you, upon seeing them, go out of your way to attack. That you have to MAKE as enemies, not that the game pre-designates them for you. When you're expected to attack ALL of the other faction, and can't communicate with them, how do you make true enemies?

It's just sad that MMO PvP is evolving (to you, devolving to me) to where it's really just an FPS with hit points. I understand that Star Wars might be walking a tight rope with storyline requirements, but surely the entire MMO industry isn't devolving like that. I'd ask how WoW is, but I want to get in on something within its first 2 months of life, not start in an already matured game.

you have described a game i would hate to play. One that everyone can attack everyone. Like many have said i have simply just grown up and moved past that point. i played a pvp server inWoW and being ganked/ganking was part of it. But now that i have a full time job and have to manage time more i want ot just get in and play and only pvp when i want to (hence why im going for a pve server).

As for the "red its dead" and making enemies....Plenty of people on pvp servers of opposite factions will attack you in the sense of "if its red its dead". So i wouldnt worry there. Even in wow it wasnt to often people would just pass it up (unless on a mount)

The making enemies...even though i couldnt communicate i had a few. You rather learn who the gankers are and where they hang out. That and leveling up in shared zones you see each other often lol. Before the battlegroups for bg's you also would see the same people and just started remembering those who kept killing you. Really i had no problems remembering who i hated to see.


Does bring back memories of SWG wher eyou could faction switch. Nothing like being being ganked or have a full party TEF gank you lol. Then have that person on your factiona nd be doing it with them the next week 🙂

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

The making enemies...even though i couldnt communicate i had a few. You rather learn who the gankers are and where they hang out. That and leveling up in shared zones you see each other often lol. Before the battlegroups for bg's you also would see the same people and just started remembering those who kept killing you. Really i had no problems remembering who i hated to see.

But what is a ganker in a game where the only enemies are the other faction? You see them enter the zone, you expect pvp. No true ganking unless you just aren't paying attention.

I understand that some people are unable to meet the time demands of both PvE to gear up and anytime PvP at the same time, but it's no reason why the game can't have at least one proper PvP server.

 

[zinfamous]

So how many of you dudes are coming down with the flu next week?

 

[Lumathix]

So how many of you dudes are coming down with the flu next week?

lol I would, if I thought I had a snowball's chance in hell to make it work.

 

[Merad]

The market doesn't "move on" from that. Yes, there are only a few players, in the grand scheme of things, that want it, that's why I'm simply saying there should be A server like that. I'm sure there are enough that want it to justify it. Just like there was in EQ. I'm not saying the whole game should be designed and made that way, just one server. If I were saying to design the whole game that way, sure, you'd have a point.

The players who want that type of game are pretty much all playing EVE-Online.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

The players who want that type of game are pretty much all playing EVE-Online.

I tried EVE but I really didn't like it due to the indirect-control method. If I'm going to play a spaceship game I want to actually fly it!

I actually had hopes for something like that in Jumpgate Evolution but apparently that project is either dead or in limbo.

 

[Anomaly1964]

lol I would, if I thought I had a snowball's chance in hell to make it work.

lol

 

[paperfist]

I know they are ramping up for launch, but has anyone else encountered glitches during the process of pre-order to download?

After buying it I've been greeted by not being able to redeem my code to start the download; not being able to actually log-in; errors while downloading and now it's telling me I don't have a valid subscription after I've downloaded the client. Their website is down again so I can't log in. I hope the technical glitches galore I'm running into isn't going to be indicative of the launch.

 

[Chaptorial]

errors while downloading and now it's telling me I don't have a valid subscription after I've downloaded the client.

That last part is 100% the norm and is perfectly fine. Everyone is getting that message when logging into the client and Bioware has posted that it means the client has been successfully downloaded and patched and when you receive your invite granting you early access you'll be good to go to log in and play.

I had the same concern as you after seeing that message but a sticky on their official forums, which is no longer there due to the forum wipe, clarified the error message.

 

[Mem]

I know they are ramping up for launch, but has anyone else encountered glitches during the process of pre-order to download?

After buying it I've been greeted by not being able to redeem my code to start the download; not being able to actually log-in; errors while downloading and now it's telling me I don't have a valid subscription after I've downloaded the client. Their website is down again so I can't log in. I hope the technical glitches galore I'm running into isn't going to be indicative of the launch.

You can't play the game now that's why you get the message "don't have valid subscription",when they activate your account ie those that have early pre-order access this will change.

Basically you have to wait until they start allowing early access.

 

[paperfist]

Thanks guys, I was getting a little peeved that I would have to start the whole process over since I can't log-in (server down for maintenance) and my subscription being invalid.

Would have been nice if Origin to SW:TOR client was a little more descriptive.

 

[CVSiN]

But what is a ganker in a game where the only enemies are the other faction? You see them enter the zone, you expect pvp. No true ganking unless you just aren't paying attention.

I understand that some people are unable to meet the time demands of both PvE to gear up and anytime PvP at the same time, but it's no reason why the game can't have at least one proper PvP server.

I dont think you understand how large the planets are...

there is no way to know when hostile players are close..

and usually gankers are stealth classes these days and you never see what hit you for the most part... or they will roll in in ARMIES and kill the entire lowbie zone in hopes of provoking a fight with higher level people that come to rescue the lowbies..

either way.. you get to know those gankers names and guilds very well..

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I dont think you understand how large the planets are...

there is no way to know when hostile players are close..

and usually gankers are stealth classes these days and you never see what hit you for the most part... or they will roll in in ARMIES and kill the entire lowbie zone in hopes of provoking a fight with higher level people that come to rescue the lowbies..

either way.. you get to know those gankers names and guilds very well..

Now I'm excited again!

But hmm...no way to know when hostile players are close? No way to know if hostile players are even on the same planet as you, then? No class has the equivalent of tracking, either, I suppose?

Actually, I kind of like that. And it raises another question. If you lose sight of a person you are fighting, for whatever reason - skillful use of what little cover there might be in an open zone, or fleeing inside a city or indoor zone...there's no way to find your target again except a manual search...right?

 

[CVSiN]

Now I'm excited again!

But hmm...no way to know when hostile players are close? No way to know if hostile players are even on the same planet as you, then? No class has the equivalent of tracking, either, I suppose?

Actually, I kind of like that. And it raises another question. If you lose sight of a person you are fighting, for whatever reason - skillful use of what little cover there might be in an open zone, or fleeing inside a city or indoor zone...there's no way to find your target again except a manual search...right?

Nope... they dont show on minimap... no way to know who or howmany are on the same planet or area... no tracking..

and yes you can run away and hide..

however that big RED name and guild and title over your head makes cover kind of pointless..

if you want to hide go stealth class.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

however that big RED name and guild and title over your head makes cover kind of pointless..

You mean small cover like bushes and trees are pointless, yes? Red name and title don't show through buildings if you are fleeing in a city I would assume?

One of the places I used to hide in early EQ, because I was a druid and enduring breath items weren't tossed around like candy, was on the bottom of lakes/rivers/etc, LOL.

And one of the only ways to find your enemy if you weren't a tracker, was that, you'd still have them on target, so you'd run around trying to cast spells(assuming you were a caster) and if the spell actually started to cast, the enemy was close.

 

[CVSiN]

You mean small cover like bushes and trees are pointless, yes? Red name and title don't show through buildings if you are fleeing in a city I would assume?

One of the places I used to hide in early EQ, because I was a druid and enduring breath items weren't tossed around like candy, was on the bottom of lakes/rivers/etc, LOL.

And one of the only ways to find your enemy if you weren't a tracker, was that, you'd still have them on target, so you'd run around trying to cast spells(assuming you were a caster) and if the spell actually started to cast, the enemy was close.

here is Tat outside a settlement in open world pvp..

this will give you an idea of what you are dealing with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYXkffXWCtg&noredirect=1