**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[Merad]

I really, really, wish MMOs would move away from the Need/Greed/Pass junk. Naming is totally illogical and only causes problems in PUGs or with newbies.

Odds are they'll eventually just add a Roll/Pass system, and most people will end up using it anyway.

 

[zinfamous]

loop should drop for individual players, randomly assigned by computer.

Only those players can pick the loot that is assigned to them. As soon as they can pick it up, it can be freely traded if they wish.

Boom.

Done.

 

[JoshGuru7]

NBG really caters to the middle 80% of MMO gamers. The hardcore 10% prefer straight roll because it is the fairest system. They are willing to sell/trade BoE items and to trust fellow hardcore players not to roll on BoP stuff they can't use. The new 10% find the distinction between greed and need confusing.

I think the benefit of NBG to the moderate MMO player is as a signalling mechanic. Many of them play for the social aspects and it is worth putting up some slight unfairness in order to send the signals that they are helpful and are a good candidate for a friend. What is interesting to me is that a lot of these types tend to work harder to signal their good intentions than they would at a real life gathering - I'm sure everybody in the thread has encountered the type who will spend three hours helping with something they didn't need when they probably showed up to their last RL gathering without bringing anything.

 

[paperfist]

I really, really, wish MMOs would move away from the Need/Greed/Pass junk. Naming is totally illogical and only causes problems in PUGs or with newbies.

Odds are they'll eventually just add a Roll/Pass system, and most people will end up using it anyway.

I don't like how it's setup like this. I found it distracted from me playing. So I'd be in the middle of a fight and this stupid window pops up asking me NGP and there's still a mob to kill. Half the time I didn't even know what the item was and didn't feel like checking out while I battle.

 

[RzeusR]

the only thing that i currently hate about this game is the fact i don't have enough time to play it ....

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

NBG really caters to the middle 80% of MMO gamers. The hardcore 10% prefer straight roll because it is the fairest system. They are willing to sell/trade BoE items and to trust fellow hardcore players not to roll on BoP stuff they can't use. The new 10% find the distinction between greed and need confusing.

I think the benefit of NBG to the moderate MMO player is as a signalling mechanic. Many of them play for the social aspects and it is worth putting up some slight unfairness in order to send the signals that they are helpful and are a good candidate for a friend. What is interesting to me is that a lot of these types tend to work harder to signal their good intentions than they would at a real life gathering - I'm sure everybody in the thread has encountered the type who will spend three hours helping with something they didn't need when they probably showed up to their last RL gathering without bringing anything.

Everything should be completely tradeable. Nothing should become no-trade, ever, and looting should always be straight roll, outside of a raid.

In raids it's different, that should be determined by the guild.

Anyway, it's a social game, so let people beg, borrow and buy to get what they need if they don't win the roll. And everything should be tradeable so that people can constantly sell what they outgrow. No trade gear is satanic, you have to basically destroy it once you outgrow it.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Yeah, i hate destroying/selling gear to vendors...when an alt, or buddy could use it.

I liked how D2 LOD had it setup, no BOE/BOP, it was jts gear, that you could do whatever you want with.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Yeah, i hate destroying/selling gear to vendors...when an alt, or buddy could use it.

I liked how D2 LOD had it setup, no BOE/BOP, it was jts gear, that you could do whatever you want with.

I'm guessing BOP gear can't even be sold to vendors, or have we evolved from EQ such that you can at least get a few credits(or whatever money is called) for such items?

 

[HarvardAce]

I'm guessing BOP gear can't even be sold to vendors, or have we evolved from EQ such that you can at least get a few credits(or whatever money is called) for such items?

Any "Bound" gear (whether via BOP or via equipping a BOE item) is sellable to a vendor for credits or able to be reverse engineered into raw materials if you have the proper crafting skill.

The reason behind making gear bound is to attempt to force players to "earn" high-level gear for their player at a difficulty level that is appropriate for that player. Otherwise, you could have level 50's farming a level 15 flashpoint solo and then giving/selling the loot to level 15 players. It also keeps the market from being flooded with lower-level items and keeps low-level crafting viable. Otherwise people would flood the market with their old gear.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Any "Bound" gear (whether via BOP or via equipping a BOE item) is sellable to a vendor for credits or able to be reverse engineered into raw materials if you have the proper crafting skill.

The reason behind making gear bound is to attempt to force players to "earn" high-level gear for their player at a difficulty level that is appropriate for that player. Otherwise, you could have level 50's farming a level 15 flashpoint solo and then giving/selling the loot to level 15 players. It also keeps the market from being flooded with lower-level items and keeps low-level crafting viable. Otherwise people would flood the market with their old gear.

Excellent, at least you can sell it.

Now, I understand the theory. But I played for 5 years on EQ's "Firiona Vie" server where 99.9% of items were tradeable. I don't care about the low level game, so maybe those are valid concerns and maybe they are not. But speaking of the max level game, first off, crafted gear rarely competes with top level group or raid gear, or to be more accurate, crafted gear using group-dropped crafting components isn't as good as the best dropped group gear, crafted gear using raid dropped isn't as good as raid dropped gear.

Anyway, as for raid gear, you did not have a situation where everybody got raid gear without earning it. Top level raid gear was simply not sold while it was current or even usually sold during the next expansion, it usually didn't even get sold until 2 expansions later and even then, for MAJOR plat. And no one gave away raid gear for free, with one exception: serious raid guilds have hand me downs, but that is good for the game in my opinion. Even then it only occurred when the guild got a drop that made that old piece available.

But, I guess I can only sigh and realize that game companies just don't accept that this is a workable way to do things.

So I will ask - is the crafted gear, both made from group and raid dropped components, actually any good compared to the dropped gear?

 

[velillen]

And no one gave away raid gear for free, with one exception: serious raid guilds have hand me downs, but that is good for the game in my opinion. Even then it only occurred when the guild got a drop that made that old piece available.

i remember our guild in WoW would sell loot. We mostly did it with the ZA bear runs. Would sell the bears for 10k gold and split it between the guild members (with 1k going ot the guild bank). We also tried ot sell items on a few bosses in Black Temple but it was usually just annoying trying to get the person in and would take longer than just running through it really fast.

So I will ask - is the crafted gear, both made from group and raid dropped components, actually any good compared to the dropped gear?

Theres a lot of unknowns im sure as to exact gear in higher end raids. Honestly though i looked through Darth hater and as of now some of the synthweaving epic crafts are pretty dang close to the data mined items in the first operations. Im sure it will be a lot like WoW in that operations will always provide the best pve gear, pvp will give best pvp gear, and crafting will offer options that are slightly below those two and also a level under those that is more slightly better than quest level as well. Or least i cant see them not doing it that way.

I was looking for a guide for you guys and most of them were unfortunately spoilertastic. Don't want that.

You've all at least played KOTOR though, right?

Thanks for the darth hater site. lots of good info with it being pretty spoiler free. Though its missing quite a bit too (like most fans sites to be fair.

 

[HumblePie]

Excellent, at least you can sell it.

Now, I understand the theory. But I played for 5 years on EQ's "Firiona Vie" server where 99.9% of items were tradeable. I don't care about the low level game, so maybe those are valid concerns and maybe they are not. But speaking of the max level game, first off, crafted gear rarely competes with top level group or raid gear, or to be more accurate, crafted gear using group-dropped crafting components isn't as good as the best dropped group gear, crafted gear using raid dropped isn't as good as raid dropped gear.

Anyway, as for raid gear, you did not have a situation where everybody got raid gear without earning it. Top level raid gear was simply not sold while it was current or even usually sold during the next expansion, it usually didn't even get sold until 2 expansions later and even then, for MAJOR plat. And no one gave away raid gear for free, with one exception: serious raid guilds have hand me downs, but that is good for the game in my opinion. Even then it only occurred when the guild got a drop that made that old piece available.

But, I guess I can only sigh and realize that game companies just don't accept that this is a workable way to do things.

So I will ask - is the crafted gear, both made from group and raid dropped components, actually any good compared to the dropped gear?

There are a few main reasons for making items bound to a character.

1) Prevents twinking. For many people they don't see this as a problem. For others they do. Especially when it comes to low level PVP. If you aren't twinked you are screwed. PVE it doesn't make that huge of a difference, but many group will invite the player that has the better gear over the player that doesn't if they are trying to do a very difficult area and they don't know either player. Which makes it more difficult for newer players to find groups on older servers.

2) Prevents item inflation. Without some sort of mechanism to remove items/gold from the game, everything gets inflated to the point that new players on a server had no hope of obtaining anything of better gear unless they find it or some high level dumps some items on them. At least having bound items takes that item out of the game at least. No one likes having item "decay" or destruction, but more people are willing to stomach item binding which at least does the same function as item decay of removing items eventually from use in the game after introduction.

3) Keeping low level crafting viable. Without item decay or item binding, then low level crafting is nothing but a boring money sink. You'll never be able to sell off anything you make. Even getting to max levels of such wouldn't make it viable. Mainly because if you are starting later on a server the "established" max level crafters have made their profit. If they want to move items they can always undercut any new crafter by far.

4) Prevents some exploits. Most exploits in online games in the past have occurred through item duping. By forcing items to be bound to the same character and having vendor sell costs very low then the incentive to dupe items drops dramatically. Not that the incentive to dupe will go away, but it does drop it.

5) Prevents Real Gold Sellers to an extent. Good item drops are worth WAY more in value than the possible money drops by the same monsters. By restricting those drops to bind on pickup, those items are now only of value to someone that picks up the item and uses it. Real Gold Sellers are then no longer as concerned about camping rare spawns or boss mobs or monsters with potentially rare loot over others, thus possibly harming the game play of others wanting to kill that monster. If the boss monsters drop the same amount of gold roughly as the easier trash mobs that are everywhere then there is no incentive for real gold sellers to create bots that camp out the boss monsters which would be more lucrative if the highly valued equipment the boss drops could be sold to other players.

6) As part of level 5, it prevents high level camping. Who here remembers the original days of EQ where level 40+ champs would sit on low level boss spawns and camp them for their item drops to resell? Granite Tomahawk, Shiny Brass Shield, and other items like those? Anyone remember those days where unless you were at or near max level then you had zero chance of being able to kill a rare spawn critter for rare spawn loot. The only way to obtain that loot would be to purchase it from the high level player that was camping that monster instead. Having items Bind on Pickup removes that crap from the game and gives all players a fair chance at obtaining equipment for themselves and being able to experience content they want to themselves.



There are a few more reasons for having BOE and BOP item drops. The ones I listed are the major reasons though.



As for your second question about loot. It's the same stuff but different looks. It's all based on a numerical system for governing base level and stats. Be it PVE drops, PVP won goods, or crafted items. A Lightersaber hilt level 8 is the same for any way you obtain for example.

 

[HarvardAce]

But, I guess I can only sigh and realize that game companies just don't accept that this is a workable way to do things.

All great points. I can't really argue against your position -- I wonder if gold selling has any play in the overwhelming majority of MMORPGs using bound items for group/raid content nowadays. If you can buy elite sword of pwnage with gold, that increases the demand for gold, raising its relative real monetary value. This would therefore increase the incentive to sell gold as well as the demand to buy gold, and there is little that MMORPG companies hate more than RMT.

So I will ask - is the crafted gear, both made from group and raid dropped components, actually any good compared to the dropped gear?

Disclaimer: I didn't make it to the end game during my beta testing. From my understanding, the top-tier raid loot is the best gear available, and top-tier crafting items are below the raid loot.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

There are a few main reasons for making items bound to a character...

1. Personally, I believe in twinking. It's all about getting people to high level where, at the end game, even twinked to a respectable level, you still can't (for example) be a very powerful tank without getting a complete set of the top gear. If the lower levels get powered through, so be it.

But what is twinking? When I think of twinking, I think of giving level 50 gear to a level 1. But why not have minimum level requirements for gear to take care of that? Because, if a level 50, or whatever the max level is, passes down old raid gear to a guild member, that's not twinking, not as far as I'm concerned at least.

2. There are other ways to remove cash from the game...
3. I never did tradeskills much, abstain from comment
4. Item duping shouldn't exist, if it does that's a bug for the gaming company to fix - period.
5. Fighting gold sellers cannot possibly justify reducing quality of game life for non gold sellers...
6. Considering the level of instancing in TOR, is that really an issue? But such as it could be an issue I say- it's part of MMO life. But why not let low level be no drop and high level gear all be droppable? I only care about the high end game anyway.

And even to the extent that people/EA don't agree with these points...why not do it Sony's way and allow there to be one server where it's like this?

 

[HumblePie]

1. Personally, I believe in twinking. It's all about getting people to high level where, at the end game, even twinked to a respectable level, you still can't (for example) be a very powerful tank without getting a complete set of the top gear. If the lower levels get powered through, so be it.

But what is twinking? When I think of twinking, I think of giving level 50 gear to a level 1. But why not have minimum level requirements for gear to take care of that? Because, if a level 50, or whatever the max level is, passes down old raid gear to a guild member, that's not twinking, not as far as I'm concerned at least.

2. There are other ways to remove cash from the game...
3. I never did tradeskills much, abstain from comment
4. Item duping shouldn't exist, if it does that's a bug for the gaming company to fix - period.
5. Fighting gold sellers cannot possibly justify reducing quality of game life for non gold sellers...
6. Considering the level of instancing in TOR, is that really an issue? But such as it could be an issue I say- it's part of MMO life. But why not let low level be no drop and high level gear all be droppable? I only care about the high end game anyway.

And even to the extent that people/EA don't agree with these points...why not do it Sony's way and allow there to be one server where it's like this?

1) Twinking as it was done in EQ where it was rampant WAS placing level 50 items on a level 1 toon. Then watching that level 1 toon beat down level 20+ monsters easily. From a player standing as one that typically solo's a lot I can definitely see the appeal to allow this to be so. From both a company standpoint and a gaming community standpoint this can cause problems.

From the company standpoint part of any game is replay value through making alternative characters with different progression. By having people go through old content with a different champ type it forces them to be a paying customer longer. If they can blow right through that content using gear well beyond their means to gather on their own for that character then that player will go through any replay value quicker and may perhaps cancel prematurely. In reality I think this is a weak argument. The flip side to that argument is that many people create alternative characters not to go through the exact same content as before, but to make it to the late game content that they want to repeat over and over but with a different choice in how the do that late game content. As such, many may quit if they are forced to have to deal with a painful process to make a new character reach late game again. Which is why I said that the company argument for this is weak.

As for the communal standpoint that isn't as weak. As anyone is trying to level up a character to the top, they are naturally going to do a few pugs here and there. Those with better gear are naturally going to get more invites than those without. Which means a level 20 wanting to raid a level 20 dungeon while using level 50 gear is going to get more invites than any other level 20 out there wearing appropriate level gear. Which in turns slows down their play experience and makes it more painful for them. That is a valid argument and does occur.

Of course as you pointed out there are other methods to dealing with twinking such as level restrictions upon items. Those other methods also have their pros and cons for using those methods.

2) The idea is not to remove just cash, but items as well. Items have a hard value that never go away unless the item goes away at some point. There needs to be an effective removal of anything generated in a perpetual MMO game that is used by characters. Every successful MMO to date has some sort of item and cash sink. Without it the inflation usually ramps up very fast and there ends up being no economy. The game then stagnates. Some methods of item and cash removal though are more "stomachable" to the general populace than others. BoE and BoP items are much more stomachable than say Eve where items are usually destroyed when your ship is destroyed. But at least Eve has effective ways to regain items lost. Others that have an item destruction method don't always do the item generation game as well either. Which leads to player frustration and players quitting.

3) it's a very valid concern. Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

4) Agreed. But it always does. Someone always finds a way to create an exploit. I already found one in beta that I reported 😛 As long as competitive online games exist there will always be people willing to use whatever method they can to get an advantage which includes cheating. And NO GAME is full proof enough to prevent any cheating from occurring.

5) How is BoE and BoP reducing the quality of game life for regular players? Personally I agree with BoE and BoP increasing the quality of game life for regular players just for the majority of reasons I listed previously. I DO agree that there can be a more dynamic implementation. A way to "unbind" an item once for a substantial cost. That does several things. It still creates a item/money sink and allows players who really want to trade an item they have away to do so without allowing that item to perpetually be on the potential market and thus causing eventual inflation.

6) Oh yes. Even with instancing there are world boss that always drop good gear. Also the instances still take quite a few players per instance. For example there was only 2 to 3 instances of the planet Corsucant on a FULL server with about several hundred players per instance. Instancing does nothing to stop a guild of players from having several groups spawn camping boss mobs for rare drops if they were so inclined on every instance. Instancing does NOTHING to stop camping unless everyone is entitled to have their own instance. Which for SWTOR is the case for small dungeons, but not the case for anything else.

 

[HumblePie]

On other problem with twinking and power leveling as well that is a pretty big negative to the gaming community as a whole. It removes the experience from the player of learning out to play the character properly. I can't tell you the amount of max level idiots I've grouped with in the past who were power levels or twinked up to that level. Sure while levels that character is a boon to those they may group with. Because they make it easier for those they group with the level and reach goals the group is trying to accomplish easier. But it is only easier through an artificial means, not on part of any skill of the players in the group.

When that player reaches max level they are going to invariably suck most of the time. They will then constantly fail those they group with in the late game, which in turns makes it so no one wants to group with that character. The high level pool of players to group with now has one more idiot to pollute it. The more that do it the more pollution there is in the pool. It ends up hurting the community and may force players to prematurely leave the game if they are unable to accomplish any late game goals because the only people they can find to group with are idiots that are going to cause them to fail.

I've seen it happen on many an occasion. I myself have been one of those that quit a game for that reason.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

1. I agree with the interpretation that says I won't bother making a new toon if I have to do it the same slow way again, I want to get to the end-game and have different abilities. I like to be able to log in a different toon for what's needed..have a slower, a tank, a healer. I understand that the game does not require you to get specific classes for groups anymore, is that right? Kind of takes away from that aspect, the aspect that lets you be valued to other people for playing a less damaging class, such as a cleric, that is still valuable for letting the group get things done. Is there any way to distinguish yourself and become a more valuable group member than another person? It's not a shooter, so pure skill perhaps isn't meaningful...

With that said, I note that in EQ twinking really only took place in the original game and 2-3 expansions, not long after that they started using the restricted levels.

But I also note that it's still fun at lower levels, even twinked, because instead of concentrating on killing one mob at a time you slaughter them and you always seem to end up dying sometimes no matter how well twinked.
5. I always thought that it was better for casuals, or people who are casual for certain periods of time due to inability to seriously raid, to be able to buy high level gear. Remember that from my experience on FV you could never buy the current expansion's gear, but at least if you saved up you could buy 2 expansions old raid gear(at least equal and usually better to current group gear) and if really lucky the previous expansion's gear. But you could usually only save up enough plat to buy 1 or 2 pieces per month, and that's as it should be. Unbinding for a cost is a good idea.

I know some of this is BoE and can thus be sold if not equipped, but is any of it actually good? I'm not saying the TOP raid gear needs to be sellable but I'd kinda like to see the lowest tier raid gear be sellable.
6. Curious - when you say "planet", the whole planet isn't just one zone is it? That may be a poor way of describing it considering seamlessness...

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

On other problem with twinking and power leveling as well that is a pretty big negative to the gaming community as a whole. It removes the experience from the player of learning out to play the character properly. I can't tell you the amount of max level idiots I've grouped with in the past who were power levels or twinked up to that level. Sure while levels that character is a boon to those they may group with. Because they make it easier for those they group with the level and reach goals the group is trying to accomplish easier. But it is only easier through an artificial means, not on part of any skill of the players in the group.

When that player reaches max level they are going to invariably suck most of the time. They will then constantly fail those they group with in the late game, which in turns makes it so no one wants to group with that character. The high level pool of players to group with now has one more idiot to pollute it. The more that do it the more pollution there is in the pool. It ends up hurting the community and may force players to prematurely leave the game if they are unable to accomplish any late game goals because the only people they can find to group with are idiots that are going to cause them to fail.

I've seen it happen on many an occasion. I myself have been one of those that quit a game for that reason.

I agree in that what you're saying definitely happens to new players that get twinked. But even when it could be done in EQ it wasn't exactly common for people to just twink people they didn't know or even people they did...but you could get your buddies to give you gear for a new alt or, more likely, cannibalize your old toon's gear to get gear for your new one.

I do remember one time, back in 1999, in Kelethin...back when my imagination, and the fact I had never traveled outside of Kelethin yet, made the world seem more real, this big ogre walked out of the mist, handed me a fine steel sword and disappeared. Pretty cool. Of course, FS was only like 1 more damage than your starting weapon, not exactly a windfall...

 

[HumblePie]

5. I always thought that it was better for casuals, or people who are casual for certain periods of time due to inability to seriously raid, to be able to buy high level gear. Remember that from my experience on FV you could never buy the current expansion's gear, but at least if you saved up you could buy 2 expansions old raid gear(at least equal and usually better to current group gear) and if really lucky the previous expansion's gear. But you could usually only save up enough plat to buy 1 or 2 pieces per month, and that's as it should be. Unbinding for a cost is a good idea.

I know some of this is BoE and can thus be sold if not equipped, but is any of it actually good? I'm not saying the TOP raid gear needs to be sellable but I'd kinda like to see the lowest tier raid gear be sellable.

This is only a problem in games designed around the mindset of hardcore end game raiding and no casual friendly playing alternatives. WoW for example after MC release and subsequent raid dungeon releases was geared to the hardcore players and hardcore guilds. Casuals had little chance of experiencing that content without switching to hardcore mode. Blizzard thought that was a good thing at first to incentive their consumers to play more, be more addicted, and get more friends in. It did go that way for awhile until it backfired. Not everyone can stay in "hardcore" mode for long. That leaves huges parts of a MMO's game population unable to experience for themselves the higher end content. And no, being able to buy an item off someone else is NOT the same thing as the experience to obtain that item for themselves.

Again, a thriving MMO with a constant influx of "goods" be that money or items, needs a way to remove those "goods" from the game permanently. No one likes having what they earned eventually lost, but people are able to stomach a loss better if they know ahead of time the life expectancy of that item so they can properly prepare for it's eventual loss. This keeps people playing. While item loss through random circumstances, say dying in PVP for example, appeals to some gamers it is a very small portion of the gaming population who wants that form of item decay. BoE and BoP is about as carebear friendly method of item decay as one can get in an MMO. The item will technically last "indefinitely" but once it is consumed by someone it is no longer available for the masses. And all items have an eventual shelf life before they need to be replaced by the player by something better. This way the player gets to dictate how long that item will last for themselves even as the item is instantly removed off the market for others once that player consumes the item.

6. Curious - when you say "planet", the whole planet isn't just one zone is it? That may be a poor way of describing it considering seamlessness...

Instancing is not seamlessness. Nor was SWTOR ever touted as a seamless game. It has zones. Each planet at the very least is a "zone" and usually they are connected to a plethora of other "zones" as well. Technically each instance of a "zone" is it's own zone as well.

 

[Ns1]

Again, a thriving MMO with a constant influx of "goods" be that money or items, needs a way to remove those "goods" from the game permanently. No one likes having what they earned eventually lost, but people are able to stomach a loss better if they know ahead of time the life expectancy of that item so they can properly prepare for it's eventual loss.

absolutely 100% true

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Instancing is not seamlessness. Nor was SWTOR ever touted as a seamless game. It has zones. Each planet at the very least is a "zone" and usually they are connected to a plethora of other "zones" as well. Technically each instance of a "zone" is it's own zone as well.

Just how small are these planets, lol? Much bigger than the area you can travel to of a planet in KOTOR, surely?

While item loss through random circumstances, say dying in PVP for example, appeals to some gamers it is a very small portion of the gaming population who wants that form of item decay.

That's not exactly item decay, not completely anyway, because you can gain gear that way too. I like for there to be item loot, but there should be ways you can avoid it...of course, those ways should decrease your combat effectiveness and make you easier to kill.

 

[velillen]

On other problem with twinking and power leveling as well that is a pretty big negative to the gaming community as a whole. It removes the experience from the player of learning out to play the character properly. I can't tell you the amount of max level idiots I've grouped with in the past who were power levels or twinked up to that level. Sure while levels that character is a boon to those they may group with. Because they make it easier for those they group with the level and reach goals the group is trying to accomplish easier. But it is only easier through an artificial means, not on part of any skill of the players in the group.

Power leveling i totally agree with. Met plenty of people who sucked at their classes at max level.

As for twinking...i have two thoughts on it. First twinking to me is those who got to level 19 in WoW and got the best possible items just so they could pvp on that character. Really made the BG's unfun for me when you had a max geared twink vs you in greens lol. That sort of twinking annoyed me and i skipped bg's till higher levels.

Now when i leveled my shaman alt from 1-70 i "twinked" in the sense i bought some BoE items for the shaman to use as she leveled. Why not get or make good gear since i twas mostly pretty cheap. My main was a leatherworker so i made some items for the shaman as well. Even though i'd end up replacing it in 5-10 levels. it didnt make me not learn the class at all as i still went through and did the quests and instances. Did it make it easier...probably. but even there the items were level appropriate that i bought for that character. i dont see how that hurts the game but rather helps it in the fact i was purchasing items and still leveling normally.

Just how small are these planets, lol? Much bigger than the area you can travel to of a planet in KOTOR, surely?

These "zones/instances" are fairly good size. Take Tython (jedi consular starting planet) when i played the beta weekend there were 6 instances. you can chat between them it just helps limit how many people are actually in your zone. I dont know how many are per an instance but it seemed to be 75-100ish. I know when i got to Nars Shaddaa it was only 1 instance for the zone with ~75 people. I believe it includes the whole planet as well for the most part (minus other instanced zones). Humblepie could correct that 🙂 The idea worked well as you could change instances inorder to do quests/heroic quests with other people

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

What exactly is the penalty for PvP dying? Is it different in a Battleground vs in any zone on a PvP server?

I have to say I'm not too interested in BGs, for that I can play BF3 or whatever. I prefer PvP servers where you can attack people wherever, and where winning or losing means something.

And also...does that game lag badly if you've got 20 people fighting? 30? 50? etc.

And another thing...on PvP servers...if say, planets have to be triple instanced, that would seem to present a problem for hunting down your enemies. They might be in an instance of the world that you can't get into.

 

[CVSiN]

What exactly is the penalty for PvP dying? Is it different in a Battleground vs in any zone on a PvP server?

I have to say I'm not too interested in BGs, for that I can play BF3 or whatever. I prefer PvP servers where you can attack people wherever, and where winning or losing means something.

And also...does that game lag badly if you've got 20 people fighting? 30? 50? etc.

And another thing...on PvP servers...if say, planets have to be triple instanced, that would seem to present a problem for hunting down your enemies. They might be in an instance of the world that you can't get into.

there is NO penalty for dying at all in this game except via PVE which causes damage to your gear that must be repaired.

the only thing PVP deaths will affect is the res here timer which goes up every time you die.

and at higher levels the planets are far less instanced for just such a reason.

The BG/WZs are were you were earn your gear.. so better get used to them.. as well as using them grants a very good bit of exp as well.

lag depends on your PC..
with a purpose built game box I never once had lag except in the earlier builds when PVP WZs had some server side lag..

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

there is NO penalty for dying at all in this game except via PVE which causes damage to your gear that must be repaired.

the only thing PVP deaths will affect is the res here timer which goes up every time you die.

and at higher levels the planets are far less instanced for just such a reason.

The BG/WZs are were you were earn your gear.. so better get used to them.. as well as using them grants a very good bit of exp as well.

lag depends on your PC..
with a purpose built game box I never once had lag except in the earlier builds when PVP WZs had some server side lag..

Er, I may have the wrong idea what a BG is...I assumed it was an instance designed for PvP combat? Or is that what it is and you get rewards for beating other teams in PvP?

What's a WZ btw?