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**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

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CE version now listed in the UK.

356097ps.gif


http://www.game.co.uk/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Collectors-Edition/~r356097/?s=old+republic


Talk about overpriced at £129.99.
 
the unknown said:
This.

http://www.swtor.com/preorder

Gonna stick with the $60 version. +$20 for the digital deluxe (5 in-game items) seems like pretty MT to me. Lame, but that's where the MMO market is heading. I blame Valve and TF2 for all of this.
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Whoa... what? TF2 isn't an MMO title, and they certainly weren't the first to go to microtransactions. I know of at least 2 other games that ARE MMOs and went free to play well before TF2... why not blame them?
 
Arsinek said:
But yet theyre looking for a game just like WoW? lol. That makes no sense. I am an exWoW player and I have no desire to play another game just like WoW. If I did, I figure Id just go play WoW.

I think there are enough complaints on the SWTOR forums to where they might make some changes.

And if they dont Ill be interested to see how this game ends up. I wouldn't be surprised if EA/BioWare takes a huge loss on it.

I think itll get some following just because its Star Wars but I dont know if itll be enough to make it worth the amount of money theyve invested.
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Same here, use to play WoW and I do not want another shitty WoW Clone, if I did, I'd be playing WoW instead of some second rate copy. I want something open box where we are free to do what we want, not pigeon holed into something, I never tried SWG before but it sounded like it had potential, just bad administration. Atleast with WoW, the community I played with is still there so it wouldn't be hard to return to. The game is just so god damn boring.
 
DrunkenSano said:
Same here, use to play WoW and I do not want another shitty WoW Clone, if I did, I'd be playing WoW instead of some second rate copy. I want something open box where we are free to do what we want, not pigeon holed into something, I never tried SWG before but it sounded like it had potential, just bad administration. Atleast with WoW, the community I played with is still there so it wouldn't be hard to return to. The game is just so god damn boring.
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That's the thing, you know the ropes, you've learned all the options for progression in all the myriad directions, so you're bored.

They are likely going on the premise that they're hitting a sweetspot by 1. making the basic gameplay familiar and 2. combining that with a the new universe (the classes, quests, equipment, mobs, some mechanics).

Some are asking for a change - give us more freedom, less hand holding and less direction eg a sandbox. I might be wrong but I get the feeling that most players appreciate the direction and structure MMOs like WoW, Rift, and apparently SWTOR provide.

So sure it's more evolution instead of revolution but that's the way mainstream works. Gradually though I think we'll see ideas from the less mainstream games creep in, even more sandbox type gameplay especially as the number of people familiar with MMOs grows.
 
I don't see why they couldn't have done both, especially with the amount of time and resources they had at hand. One would've assumed with all that time they were given to develop this game, something a lot better would've been the result than a copy paste with a new cover.

They could've easily done a main stream storyline game where it guides players through the main plot, but also include a large ingame playable universe for those who wishes to branch off. Those new to MMOs can follow the path, being guided along until they see something they like off the main path and explore, enjoy it. Freedom isn't a bad thing, it allows people to enjoy what they like. To me, it seems like the developers of ToR were dumb and shortsighted, or lazy.
 
DrunkenSano said:
I don't see why they couldn't have done both, especially with the amount of time and resources they had at hand. One would've assumed with all that time they were given to develop this game, something a lot better would've been the result than a copy paste with a new cover.

They could've easily done a main stream storyline game where it guides players through the main plot, but also include a large ingame playable universe for those who wishes to branch off. Those new to MMOs can follow the path, being guided along until they see something they like off the main path and explore, enjoy it. Freedom isn't a bad thing, it allows people to enjoy what they like. To me, it seems like the developers of ToR were dumb and shortsighted, or lazy.
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I'm sure EA deserves more of the "credit" than Bioware.
 
DrunkenSano said:
Freedom isn't a bad thing, it allows people to enjoy what they like. To me, it seems like the developers of ToR were dumb and shortsighted, or lazy.
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Or under strict order from TPTB to not be too creative and stay as much as they can with the proven formula.
 
DrunkenSano said:
I don't see why they couldn't have done both, especially with the amount of time and resources they had at hand. One would've assumed with all that time they were given to develop this game, something a lot better would've been the result than a copy paste with a new cover.

They could've easily done a main stream storyline game where it guides players through the main plot, but also include a large ingame playable universe for those who wishes to branch off. Those new to MMOs can follow the path, being guided along until they see something they like off the main path and explore, enjoy it. Freedom isn't a bad thing, it allows people to enjoy what they like. To me, it seems like the developers of ToR were dumb and shortsighted, or lazy.
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Name an extremely sucessful freedom based MMO? I played Ultima Online for 7+ years and that was the definition of freedom. However, at its peak it has 300,000 active subscribers. The masses want a game that isn't completely dependent on your own imagination. It is always good business to cater towards the masses because they are far greater than the minority, even if they don't bitch about things nearly as much.
 
That's why it would be the new frontier of MMO, just like WoW did when they decided to cater to all types of players, not just hardcore players like the successful game EQ did. You can't just keep going back to the same old same old, name one successful MMO that copied WoW after WoW? There were none, TOR will be the same. It's not good business at all.
 
DrunkenSano said:
That's why it would be the new frontier of MMO, just like WoW did when they decided to cater to all types of players, not just hardcore players like the successful game EQ did. You can't just keep going back to the same old same old, name one successful MMO that copied WoW after WoW? There were none, TOR will be the same. It's not good business at all.
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Except most of the WoW Clones have sold fairly well compared to those that weren't. I would love a UO type Star Wars MMO that was completely open, but it just isn't what most people want. I don't think TOR will fail due to it being, not only a Bioware WoW clone, but a Star Wars game. The fan base is large enough to sustain it. So long as they don't have a medic class sitting in the catina all day, whose only purpose is buff people. That was almost as bad as "no jedi for you lawl" SWG idea.
 
So from what it sounds like, this game is Warhammer Online reskinned to be Starwars theme with guns instead of bows and lightsabers instead of swords.

That sounds pretty bad because Warhammer Online sucked balls and was a complete flop. I wonder if EA will do the same thing they did at launch and create 1000 servers, each of which will have precisely 6 people on them after the first month.

Things that need to disappear from MMOs to make them interesting again: 1) the overabundance of instancing, and 2) battlegrounds.
 
I like how everyone expects game developers to be starving artists and not businesses. People want whats familiar and easy and companies want money. How else could it possibly turn out?

It's not going to be a WoW clone in the sense that it plays exactly the same and uses the exact same systems and mechanisms, but it will be in the sense that they're probably going to try to create a fluid, 'safe' experience that doesn't step outside many comfort bounds. Levelling will probably be mostly quest based, control of your character progression limited, crafting likely not especially risky, etc.

Chances are in time it wants to be in a similar position to WoW, a fairly simplistic but highly polished game with easy to (re)produce content to keep people coming back.
 
Also, I think what's needed are the guts to eliminate PvP completely from a PvE-centric game. And vice-versa, I suppose. Although I don't know if a MMORPG PvP-only game is sustainable at all. Do they even exist (EVE?)? If they don't, someone might as well try to make one.

At least have the guts to make them completely separate so there's no balance issue. I think LotRO does it very close to perfection with their PvP implementation. You can PvP, but you will have to create a new character if you want to be on the 'other side'. That PvP character does not have access to PvE content.

Back to this game, if they do want to make it a PvP game (suitable, because of the Bounty Hunter aspect, etc), then please have the guts to make it a totally 100% PvP game. Even in this thread there are many already posted how they want more world PvP, ganking, etc. I won't buy the game if this is the case, but who cares? There's a ton of PvP lovers who want to play the game, right?

On the other hand, if they want to appeal to the PvE players, focus on the storyline, raid dungeons, professions, etc., have the guts to eliminate PvP completely, or separating it like LotRO does.

Will this happen? Of course not. Just like they don't have the guts to create something different from WoW, they don't have the guts to do this either. They want as much money as they can grab, they don't care about what I (or you, for that matter) want 😀
 
DrunkenSano said:
That's why it would be the new frontier of MMO, just like WoW did when they decided to cater to all types of players, not just hardcore players like the successful game EQ did. You can't just keep going back to the same old same old, name one successful MMO that copied WoW after WoW? There were none, TOR will be the same. It's not good business at all.
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It IS good business because all the Sandbox MMOs are financial failures compared to their themepark brethren.

Even UO, which I played when it was still the Dread Lord days went to a less open world game due to the problems it causes. They had programs such as the Seer one to try and give players stuff to do, they started creating the themepark even way back when.

Most people are lazy and want to be entertained, not to entertain and the numbers in the MMO industry prove it.

(And SWTOR is NOTHING like Warhammer... having played both extensively.)
 
cronos said:
Also, I think what's needed are the guts to eliminate PvP completely from a PvE-centric game. And vice-versa, I suppose. Although I don't know if a MMORPG PvP-only game is sustainable at all. Do they even exist (EVE?)? If they don't, someone might as well try to make one.

At least have the guts to make them completely separate so there's no balance issue. I think LotRO does it very close to perfection with their PvP implementation. You can PvP, but you will have to create a new character if you want to be on the 'other side'. That PvP character does not have access to PvE content.

Back to this game, if they do want to make it a PvP game (suitable, because of the Bounty Hunter aspect, etc), then please have the guts to make it a totally 100% PvP game. Even in this thread there are many already posted how they want more world PvP, ganking, etc. I won't buy the game if this is the case, but who cares? There's a ton of PvP lovers who want to play the game, right?

On the other hand, if they want to appeal to the PvE players, focus on the storyline, raid dungeons, professions, etc., have the guts to eliminate PvP completely, or separating it like LotRO does.

Will this happen? Of course not. Just like they don't have the guts to create something different from WoW, they don't have the guts to do this either. They want as much money as they can grab, they don't care about what I (or you, for that matter) want 😀
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No, that's why, if you have 30 servers(just a random number) to support your playerbase, 25 might be non pvp and 5 are full PvP enabled. Removing it completely is nuts. But giving players a choice to remove it completely by choosing a nonpvp server is fine.

But - they need to do a good job for even the players on the 5 PvP servers. It shouldn't be an afterthought crammed in recklessly. Meaning - no sith lords running around deathtouching in one hit with force lightning.
 
maniacalpha1-1 said:
No, that's why, if you have 30 servers(just a random number) to support your playerbase, 25 might be non pvp and 5 are full PvP enabled. Removing it completely is nuts. But giving players a choice to remove it completely by choosing a nonpvp server is fine.
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You say it's nuts because you like PvP 🙂 But either way, that's not my point. My argument was about balancing skills between PvP and PvE.

In your example, even though PvP is not allowed on a server, on the PvP server they're still going to be using the exact same characters (and their skills, barring multiple specs) for both. This is why I brought up LotRO and its unique way of dealing with PvP. They separate the characters that you use for PvP on the 'other side'. This way they only have to balance one time, against the PvE characters on this side. Later on when the game evolves and a (perceived) imbalance on one side is fixed, it will not affect the other side.

They only have to catch-up one time instead of the imbalance getting them back on the other side. The latter is what happened (and is still happening) in WoW. They usually started with a great PvE balance, and then the PvPers started crying foul, so they balance the skills for PvP, which destroys PvE balance, repeat ad infinitum.
 
cronos said:
You say it's nuts because you like PvP 🙂 But either way, that's not my point. My argument was about balancing skills between PvP and PvE.

In your example, even though PvP is not allowed on a server, on the PvP server they're still going to be using the exact same characters (and their skills, barring multiple specs) for both. This is why I brought up LotRO and its unique way of dealing with PvP. They separate the characters that you use for PvP on the 'other side'. This way they only have to balance one time, against the PvE characters on this side. Later on when the game evolves and a (perceived) imbalance on one side is fixed, it will not affect the other side.

They only have to catch-up one time instead of the imbalance getting them back on the other side. The latter is what happened (and is still happening) in WoW. They usually started with a great PvE balance, and then the PvPers started crying foul, so they balance the skills for PvP, which destroys PvE balance, repeat ad infinitum.
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how exactly does LOTRO separate the characters? I'm not familiar with how they do it.

however, I think everquest developed a good method. They balanced for PvE and simply adjusted the actual percentage of PvE damage that would be done in PvP, leaving PvE alone. (I'm not saying they did this right from the beginning but they eventually did, and TOR, having the experience learned from all MMOs before it, can do the same).
 
maniacalpha1-1 said:
how exactly does LOTRO separate the characters? I'm not familiar with how they do it.

however, I think everquest developed a good method. They balanced for PvE and simply adjusted the actual percentage of PvE damage that would be done in PvP, leaving PvE alone. (I'm not saying they did this right from the beginning but they eventually did, and TOR, having the experience learned from all MMOs before it, can do the same).
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I've never played EQ so I didn't know that. That's pretty interesting.

LotRO is bound to its lore so the free people of Middle Earth are not supposed to fight and kill each other. To create a PvP in this game, they invented a whole set of 'monster' races and classes just for the 'other side'. At certain level you are allowed to create a 'monster' character (at max level, iirc) with a choice of classes and their own complete set of skills. You can only use these characters for PvP (or PvMP as they call it, for 'Monster Player').

I honestly haven't played the game for almost a year, so the details are a little fuzzy, but I was typing that post above when I got reminded of it. I then started thinking how this model would be perfect to handle balancing issues.
 
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