***Official Reviews Thread*** Nvidia Geforce GTX Titan - Launched Feb. 21, 2013

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Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
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Don't see any of the cards "under water".
Waterblocks won't be available for some time unless someone uses a universal mount and then they will still have issues with VRM cooling. These OC results are with air!

With a proper water set up GPU load temps are always in the 30s. Even so I don't think that allows for much more OC head room it just prevents the board from reaching critical mass under continuous full load, i.e. WCG crunching, for example.

A pair (or threesome!) of these, EVGA Signature Hydro Copper variety would work nice indeed. :awe:
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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Well I guess having full DP capabilities justifies it's price for the few who want the card to both game and crunch with. I have a feeling most purchasers will be just for gaming though. No way I will ever spend this much, but I am still interested in seeing it's performance, OC capabilities, and the general tech behind it.

One thing is for sure, 20nm ~300mm^2 chips are going to have some memory bandwidth issues to overcome if they want to come close to or pass gk110 in performance.
 

Whitestar127

Senior member
Dec 2, 2011
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If you wait another year or so, Maxwell will give you better performance at 1/3 of the price and 1/3 of the watts.

Spending $1000 on this is quite idiotic. It's a nice statement piece though.

There's always something better coming in the future. That doesn't help me right now.
 

Phishy714

Senior member
Jun 11, 2012
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If you wait another year or so, Maxwell will give you better performance at 1/3 of the price and 1/3 of the watts.

Spending $1000 on this is quite idiotic. It's a nice statement piece though.

But then If you wait another year after that, you will get 2x the performance of Titan and 1/3 of the price! So you guys are dumb for not waiting till 2015.

And even those people that wait till 2015 are dumb because there will be an even more powerful card for less cost in 2016!! So yeah!

Don't even get me started about those that wait till 2017 for that generation. COMPLETELY wipe the floor with TITAN - those are the people who know the value of their money!
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
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Ummm, I understand the price is way out of many people's league, however, I don't understand why you call it a turd?...where did you get the 80c and is that stock clocks?...didn't Toms have this running at almost 1.2 ghz at 87c.....on air?

When is 80c bad to? GTX 580 SLI can hit 93c under long loads.
 

Phishy714

Senior member
Jun 11, 2012
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Alatar over at OCN put it best:

Okay guys here's the deal:

Nvidia actually wants to price their big dies (500mm^2+) higher than $500. This is because they're very expensive, have a lot of R&D money put into them and have low yields.

What made the 480 and 580 cost $500 then? Competition.

Let's look at the circumstances at the launch of the past pew NV flagships:

GTX 280: Huge die, priced at $650 with basic high end GPU features, has to drop in price very soon because of AMD releasing a GTX 260 matching 4870 for ~$300. NV has to stay competitive and was relying on their high end GPU for the mainstream stuff as well, they have to lower the price in order to sell it because G92 isn't cutting it anymore.

GTX 285: Same story but without the initial high price because of AMD already having their cards out. Only shrinking the process and a bit higher OCs and better thermals aren't enough to price it much above the then discounted 280. NV is still using G92 for their lower end parts and has to still manage some of the mainstream ($300 range) with the expensive GT200b. GT200b did though save them from making a nearly 600mm^2 die for mainstream cards which is probably the reason for why it was even die shrinked. The price can't go higher because of AMD's 4890.

GTX 480: Again a massive die, card is massively late, hogs more power than ever seen before (single GPU) and has lots of bad publicity even before launch. The performance barely warrants the $500 price compared to the $400 5870. NV tries to market the card with more VRAM, CUDA, PhysX etc. They also have to use the die for 470s and 465s again making it a mainstream chip as well. This isn't a choice, it's a must for them because of AMD's product range. The smaller GF104 appears much later and is no match for AMD's products and can't be used to counter high end products.

GTX 580: NV is unaware of what AMD might release after seeing the 5870 matching 6870 (well almost). The 580 provides 10% increase over the older 480 while actually decreasing the die just a tad, improving thermals etc. They can't price it much higher than their own card because the 400 series wasn't even selling well and the 5870 had been discounted to around $370. a $500 price is set as a counter to possible future AMD GPUs, however the 6970 that was originally planned as a $500 card (leaks showing listings from different etailers etc. showed this) barely matches the 480 and can't compete with the 580, AMD has to price the card similarly to the discounted 5870.

At this point NV saw how important the GF104, GF114, GK104 die was due to the huge volume of sales they produced. A decision is made to give the mainstream chip more attention so it will be on the market sooner.

GTX 680: This time NV already knows the performance of the 7970 which has launched at an expensive $550. Multiple leaks originating from before 7970 era launch plans of NV (drivers, early cooler images etc) show GK104 being introduced as GTX670Ti due to NV thinking it can't match a single 7970. After seeing how AMD's new card performs and where it is priced though NV can bump the name of GK104 up to GTX 680 and grab a big portion of the high end GPU market by releasing it at $500. GK100 is either failed or too expensive to use for anything at this point. Being able to compete with a smaller die, GK104, is a huge plus for NV who have achieved a much bigger jump in performance than AMD (per mm^2), the biggest jump since G80 in fact. Added plus is the GK104 memory controller that blows even NV engineers away and makes it possible for the GK104 to function as a high end GPU even in situations that might need high bandwidth. After this AMD launches a price war, bundle war, renaming war and a driver war to make their lineup more lucrative but the damage has already been done and the 600 series has very good rep outside the enthusiast scene.

GTX Titan: GK110 is expensive to produce, supercomputer firms, universities, etc. are screaming for GK110 based teslas which NV provides as soon as they have tens of thousands of GK110s that have low enough leakage and enough working SMXs. K20s are being sold in late september before the launch of the official cards. One of the customers is the Titan supercomputer, needing around 16,000 units.
As usual NV intends to sell the more leaky chips as GeForce ones as has been speculated for well over half a year. Nvidia has a card that can without any trouble beat a 680 and a 7970, the performance difference is much bigger than anything we've seen before, high enough that the card doesn't have any competition at all in the single GPU arena, even less so than the 580. On top of this the card is also almost 100% sure to not have any single GPU competition in the next year or even after that because of AMD and NV being stuck on the 28nm process. Nvidia has also been catching flak for bad compute features lately.
Nvidia doesn't need this expensive chip to compete with AMD and thus has no intentions of releasing it as a normal card part of their normal naming scheme and lineup. That task is reserved for GK114 most likely. However the performance doesn't quite warrant the price of a halo-card-esque pricing of the 690. A decision is made to still release GK110 as Titan for $999 but to load the card with features to make up for the performance that isn't quite up there with the 690. The cooler is similar, users will have full overclocking abilities, etc. And on top of this DP performance is left untouched making the card lucrative for individuals who wish to do GPGPU work but unattractive for big companies. The card is also a huge marketing tool which shows when looking at the emphasis on thermals and OEM systems like those of Origin PC's maingear's etc. The card will enhance NV's brand by setting all the records and being the best. A high price will only reinforce this effect even if it might be bad for the average consumer.
Titan is a product of no competition in the same performance range at all aside from multi GPU setups which don't really matter due to Titan being able to do 4-way SLI, taking less space, being quieter, having the ability to be installed in SFF builds etc.

Pricing has everything to do with the competition. Everything.

So no, your $500 high end GPU isn't going anywhere. If AMD releases the 8970 or the 9970 as powerful enough to make using GK114 or GM104 impossible, NV will be forced to use GK110 or GM100 for normal GPUs. And unless AMD pulls a miracle out of their ass (something like the next version of pitcairn/smaller level chips performing on the level or above NV GK114/GM104) they can't price their cards higher either.

The only thing that allows TItan to be priced at $999 is the huge jump in performance made with kepler. If the manufacturers want to keep raising prices they have to be able to make lower end chips handily outperform previous high end chips. This might have happened once or twice but it is not by any definition the norm and in normal circumstances a price hike of the extreme high end products isn't possible. Due to the huge advances made with kepler NV is most likely going to struggle with Maxwell when trying to maintain similar advances in performance of their chips (they hit the jackpot once, now a new architecture that is better than an incredible one is very hard to do). The jump will most likely be smaller forcing the price of the top of the line chip down. This is of course assuming that AMD keeps putting out GPUs at a steady pace.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1362327/various-gtx-titan-previews/880
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
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Nvidia actually wants to price their big dies (500mm^2+) higher than $500. This is because they're very expensive, have a lot of R&D money put into them and have low yields.
Yep,I agree with that.
Most video card enthusiasts won't mind if there's a big die,planet buster in both the NVDA and Radeon ranges.
It probably does need $800-$1K pricing to make it bearable as a halo product.
Most people however will still want a new gen $300 card that makes use of some of Titan's DNA.
I think AMD's GCN Block 2 chips will be good value and fast in that range and keep prices sane for most of us.:)
 
May 13, 2009
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I want them to price these cards at $1500 a piece to further cement my leet status.


Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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I want them to price these cards at $1500 a piece to further cement my leet status.


Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?

Please don't derail this thread too...no one is forcing anyone to buy these cards.
Go beat on a wet cabbage if you are angry.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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Don't see any of the cards "under water".
Waterblocks won't be available for some time unless someone uses a universal mount and then they will still have issues with VRM cooling. These OC results are with air!

With a proper water set up GPU load temps are always in the 30s. Even so I don't think that allows for much more OC head room it just prevents the board from reaching critical mass under continuous full load, i.e. WCG crunching, for example.

A pair (or threesome!) of these, EVGA Signature Hydro Copper variety would work nice indeed. :awe:

If the rumblings of some cards doing ~1.2Ghz on air are true...I wonder what they will do under water indeed!
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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I want them to price these cards at $1500 a piece to further cement my leet status.


Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?

I'm not condoning the pricing, but the fact nvidia is serving two different customers at the same time with this card more or less explains why they are going to get away with charging $1000. Hopefully there will be cut down 12-13 smx gk110 chips with DP castrated at significantly lower prices.
 

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
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I'm stoked at those OC results for Titan. I fully beleive that a single Titan at >1.0Ghz will outperform my GTX 670SLI at stock speeds. (which is what I run)

Can't wait to get rid of this microstutter/multicard issues and get back to a single card (until I get a second of course !) and the circle continues.
 

f1sherman

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2011
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Nice retrospective when he sticks with the facts, but I disagre with some of the speculation parts

  • low yields (GK110) - no idea whatsoever about yields
  • The smaller GF104 appears much later and is no match for AMD's products and can't be used to counter high end products.
    GF104 practically singlehandedly stops rampant Evergreen and remains the best selling card of that generation
  • At this point NV saw how important the GF104, GF114, GK104 die was due to the huge volume of sales they produced. A decision is made to give the mainstream chip more attention so it will be on the market sooner.
    really? NV has had no idea that mainstream is mighty important?
  • GK104/GK100/GK110 speculation
    it's entirely unknown what really happened. True, much of it supports scenario in which GK104 was supposed to be mainstream chip, but 670Ti is simply too close to 680 to warrant GK100/110 exclusivly in 680
  • GTX Titan: GK110 is expensive to produce
    like hell it is. proly $120 same like GF110. R&D is what's expensive
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,457
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I want them to price these cards at $1500 a piece to further cement my leet status.


Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?

Meh, my two 7970s make me smile ;)
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
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I want them to price these cards at $1500 a piece to further cement my leet status.


Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?

I think you are wrong there Oil.
There's room in the market for big,"money is no object" supercards.
I have no problem with them charging a lot for one as long as we get fast midrange chips at a decent price.
That way we can upgrade and get something new more often.:p
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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GK110 at a much lower price point will hurt the whole lineup. Now they can sell every SKU a step higher than in the last generation. So they will do everything to keep it that way.

Raised that exact point at Rage3d; as the high MSRP will not cannibalize sales of their existing sku's including SLi.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
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I want them to price these cards at $1500 a piece to further cement my leet status.


Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?




Give it a rest already. You're poor, we get it. Stop spamming each thread with your drivel.
 

Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
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You waited 10 months to get a >20% boost in Battlefield 3 because AMD had driver problems with the engine and GCN.

So at the time they fixed the problem the 7970 cost only $399, had 3 games and a 20% off coupon for MoH.

A 28% price cut and a game bundle worth nearly $80.

I don't know but i think crappy drivers and performance is a alright description.

Did you read my post? I already said that performance improvements do not indicate "crappy drivers and performance" from the outset. The fact was that the 7970 reclaimed the single-GPU crown until the 680 came out. It provided a moderate improvement over 2011-gen cards. While it was arguably a bit too expensive at the time, several people like myself were willing to spoil ourselves as a Christmas/New Year/whatever present to ourselves.

However, the Titan looks like it is providing only the same moderate performance boost over 2012-gen cards, but it is doing so at nearly DOUBLE the launch price of the 7970. That is a launch price that I and others are not willing to pay. Others will pay it and are welcome to do so, but I will continue to evaluate all cards in terms of performance-per-dollar

If future GeForce drivers improve the Titan's performance by 20% in 6 months time, I will not say that the Tian launched in Feb 2013 with "crappy drivers and performance." I will say that it launched with impressive (but not mindblowing) performance at an exorbitant price.

...and that will be, incidentally, what I am saying RIGHT NOW, unless the independent reviewers somehow uncover massive performance increases above and beyond the numbers in NVIDIA's own PR slides
 

Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
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Do you goofballs not realize that your constant support of first 7970's ridiculous pricing and now titans absurd pricing is just driving up the price for everyone?

I was willing to pay the 7970's launch price

I am not willing to pay the Titan's launch price

You seem to be suggesting that me paying the 7970's launch price is somehow responsible for the Titan's exorbitant launch price. If that is your point, please explain it, politely and in proper English. Otherwise, your question is merely rhetorical, annoying and off-topic.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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AMD increased the prices. It's not nVidia's fault that their architecture offering much more performance at the same size.

nVidia is a victim of their success. GK110 at a much lower price point will hurt the whole lineup. Now they can sell every SKU a step higher than in the last generation. So they will do everything to keep it that way.

:rolleyes:

Yes we get it. If nvidia raises prices it's AMD's fault, if nvidia releases a mediocre performing flagship - it's AMD's fault, if Al Crenshaw in Utah receives his Titan from UPS with a small crease on the box art - it's AMD's fault.......

Anyways back to reality.

This card is a huge scam. Nvidia is chasing the sucker market who hears 'premium components' and sees $5 worth of aluminum on the shroud and thinks it's worth $1000 to get the standard generational performance increase.

Personally I want a pair of these but I think they're going to see price drops ina fairly quick order. It's a downgrade for a GTX 690, GTX 680 SLI user for the same price. Most of the folks buying these day one will be buying more than one for that reason I think. After that I think sales will stall on the most over-priced consumer graphics card ever released.
 
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