Beer bottles eh? What tape was that on...because id like to see it. Anyway, if you reread my posts you would see that I think the guy who threw the beer should be prosecuted for it. If he got caught, im sure he did. We have a justice system for a reason. The guy who threw the beer should certainly be reprimeanded for it. However, at that point Artest should have walked away.
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**OFFICIAL** Pistons/Pacers Suspensions
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Beer bottles eh? What tape was that on...because id like to see it. Anyway, if you reread my posts you would see that I think the guy who threw the beer should be prosecuted for it. If he got caught, im sure he did. We have a justice system for a reason. The guy who threw the beer should certainly be reprimeanded for it. However, at that point Artest should have walked away.
MrCodeDude
Lifer
I don't get it.
Artest was sitting down trying to cool off after an already heated situation. Then the asshole fan physically attacks Artest, the fan got what he deserved.
Players are conditioned to not react to fan's verbal insults, etc. It is something that goes along with the game. But once you're physically attacked, you have a right to self-defense.
That fan should be banned from all things basketball, the same with that Mexican fan who came on the floor like he was going to fight Artest.
Artest was sitting down trying to cool off after an already heated situation. Then the asshole fan physically attacks Artest, the fan got what he deserved.
Players are conditioned to not react to fan's verbal insults, etc. It is something that goes along with the game. But once you're physically attacked, you have a right to self-defense.
That fan should be banned from all things basketball, the same with that Mexican fan who came on the floor like he was going to fight Artest.
sniperruff
Lifer
the espn guy said beer bottles. it was towards the end that fans threw bottles from high altitude. and prosecuting? that would be too many pistons fans who threw crap that night.
The ESPN guy was mistaken, no one really knew what was going on that night. If you look at the replays its a plastic bottle, the Palace doesn't even sell glass bottles, I don't think any venue does. It would be real hard to sneak a glass bottle of beer in the palace. The Palace has had higher security at the enterance where they check every one that enters.
SP33Demon
Lifer
Wrong. Players get hit with popcorn, beer, and CELL PHONES. And yet, somehow every professional sports player (99.8%) have controlled themselves and not jumped into the stands like a raging bull, randomly attacking the first person he sees. That fan who threw it is likely in jail tonight, as well as the guy who came down on the floor trolling for a payday. A player cannot attack ANY fan unless that fan comes down on the court. Can't take verbal lashings, or beer sprayed on you? Then you shouldn't be a professional player. It comes with the territory and is a common occurence.
SP33Demon
Lifer
It's a CUP of beer that hit him. Like you said, the Palace doesn't give any type of bottle (glass or plastic) to the fan. Only CUPS. So unless the fan snuck it in, saved it for the ENTIRETY of the game without drinking it (highly unlikely btw), then that is the only way a bottle full of beer would have been available. The replays clearly show it was a CUP of beer, watch it again.
Artest got what he deserved. He got sprayed by some beer and went nuts! It's just a matter of time before we hear about Artest attacking people when it's raining outside. It must be a moisture thing.:roll:
BTW, that 5 million or so he is losing is just the tip of the iceburg, he is going to get his a$$ royally sued by the fans that suffered a battery at the end of his hands, along with a couple teamates.
BTW, that 5 million or so he is losing is just the tip of the iceburg, he is going to get his a$$ royally sued by the fans that suffered a battery at the end of his hands, along with a couple teamates.
alexruiz
Platinum Member
While I think that Artest is a jerk, the league made the wrong choice. Suspend Wallace for the whole season also, as he started everything. Give the pistons a HUUUGE fine for the sitation in their arena, and finally BAN the palace for the rest of the season . Make the pistons play local at a different place as lesson to the fans, so they will think it better next time. Here aggresion to the players are quite common (futbol soccer) and the league won't have mercy by susnpending an arena for a few games... this usually makes the team affected beef the security.
Here's my opinion, and I'm likely about as unbiased as you will find...
Ben Wallace - overboard, a standard 2 game heavy shove suspension is adequate, it doesn't matter what it led to
O'Neal - completely overboard, Vernon Maxwell entered the stands to beat a fan and got 10 games, O'Neal punched a fan that was getting up in the direction of one of his teammates ON THE COURT, he should get 8 games, 10 max
Jackson - 30 games is reasonable here, no major priors and he entered the stands with less provocation than Artest
Artest - should be 25 games, extreme provocation, DID NOT PUNCH until the bald fatass in the blue shirt punched at him, he was just holding the guy he thought threw the cup down asking if he did it, NOT assault IMO, and once he was being punched it's self-defense, when he was back on the court those 2 short, fat guys in Pistons jerseys came at him and he defended himself ON THE COURT, nothing wrong with that
Legal issues...fans that can be identified throwing bottles should get misdemeanor assault. Artest should get disturbing the peace, no assault, however, as every punch he threw that would constitute assault was at that point in self-defense. O'Neal has no fault as his was in defense of, it not himself, a teammate on the court. The only other player to have a criminal violation is Jackson who I think could possible go up for assault and battery for hitting that first fan behind Artest up in the stands. In my opinion that is also the only fan that should have any civil court claim, which would be against Jackson. Any other civil lawsuit is complete bullshit and should be thrown out.
The player's association better stand behind Artest and at least bring it to arbitration. If he doesn't get to come back this season, he should at least receive part of his salary.
Finally, this is almost a guarantee that Stern's fascist reign as NBA commisioner will be over. His contract is up next year I believe, and there is NO WAY he could be coming back after fvcking this up so badly.
edit: spelling
Ben Wallace - overboard, a standard 2 game heavy shove suspension is adequate, it doesn't matter what it led to
O'Neal - completely overboard, Vernon Maxwell entered the stands to beat a fan and got 10 games, O'Neal punched a fan that was getting up in the direction of one of his teammates ON THE COURT, he should get 8 games, 10 max
Jackson - 30 games is reasonable here, no major priors and he entered the stands with less provocation than Artest
Artest - should be 25 games, extreme provocation, DID NOT PUNCH until the bald fatass in the blue shirt punched at him, he was just holding the guy he thought threw the cup down asking if he did it, NOT assault IMO, and once he was being punched it's self-defense, when he was back on the court those 2 short, fat guys in Pistons jerseys came at him and he defended himself ON THE COURT, nothing wrong with that
Legal issues...fans that can be identified throwing bottles should get misdemeanor assault. Artest should get disturbing the peace, no assault, however, as every punch he threw that would constitute assault was at that point in self-defense. O'Neal has no fault as his was in defense of, it not himself, a teammate on the court. The only other player to have a criminal violation is Jackson who I think could possible go up for assault and battery for hitting that first fan behind Artest up in the stands. In my opinion that is also the only fan that should have any civil court claim, which would be against Jackson. Any other civil lawsuit is complete bullshit and should be thrown out.
The player's association better stand behind Artest and at least bring it to arbitration. If he doesn't get to come back this season, he should at least receive part of his salary.
Finally, this is almost a guarantee that Stern's fascist reign as NBA commisioner will be over. His contract is up next year I believe, and there is NO WAY he could be coming back after fvcking this up so badly.
edit: spelling
poopaskoopa
Diamond Member
I think the penalty levied against Artest is too harsh. I'd like to see the NBA hunt down the fans who took part in the melee as well. I assume that the players are the easiest to control from the commish's perspective, but I wish he didn't let the fans treat these players as caged animals.
Why does everyone think the fan(s) are getting off scott free ??
I don't know how the investigation is going but I'm sure if they were able to pinpoint the instigator(s), they would do everything within their power to punish those fans also.
What can the NBA do legaly to the fans ??
Revoke their season tickets if any ?
Bann them from the arena in the future ?
There is a big difference here. NBA players are employees of the NBA.
They can punish the players anyway they see fit.
The fans, well, what can the NBA do beside things within the law.
So for those who said its equally the fans fault....well, its true also but beside prosecution, what can the NBA do ?? NOTHING.
Lets put this in real world situation.
Lets say I was a restaurant manager and a customer threw food in my face in within the restaurant.
If I go and punch him, whats gonna happen ??
Even though the customer provoked it.
Chances are 1) I'll be fired 2) I'll be suspended.
What will happen to the customer even though he provoked it ??
Probably nothing.
So the point is if you're are in your working enviroment(as Artest is in), you need to show better control if you value your job.
Lets say I was a restaurant manager and a customer threw food in my face in within the restaurant.
If I go and punch him, whats gonna happen ??
Even though the customer provoked it.
Chances are 1) I'll be fired 2) I'll be suspended.
What will happen to the customer even though he provoked it ??
Probably nothing.
So the point is if you're are in your working enviroment(as Artest is in), you need to show better control if you value your job.
TuxDave
Lifer
If I remember the law correctly, if you THREATEN a person in such as way that a reasonable person will be afraid of immediate bodily harm, that is assault. He charged some kid and tackled him. I would be pretty afraid of bodily harm. Once Artest made contact with the boy, that is battery. None of those up to this point can count as self defense. I need to study the video a little more carefully to see what happens afterwards.
applesseed
Senior member
One of the best melee in nba history i've seen 🙂
Artest can now go after his musical career tho I don't think I'd buy his stuff. I think he deserve to be suspended for the season.
I also think B. Wallace deserves more suspension than six games.
Artest can now go after his musical career tho I don't think I'd buy his stuff. I think he deserve to be suspended for the season.
I also think B. Wallace deserves more suspension than six games.
It looks like Jermaine O'Neal may really be facing some pretty serious criminal charges from the fight, because apparently not only did he hit the fan as seen in the videotape, but he hit a cop as well!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...s/A3104-2004Nov21.html
SP33Demon
Lifer
Just a bunch of thugs who would probably be in prison if they weren't playing in the NBA. The suspensions were just right, and many fans are going to get rich off of this. The classless guy who threw the cup of beer will be prosecuted and incarcerated, and banned from any Palace game. I would be frightened sitting courtside with my family if Ron Artest was on the court, I'm glad that monkey is gone for 72 games. Hey Barf-fest, hope you can make that 5.5 mil back with your album *snicker*
purbeast0
No Lifer
I think the penalty is great for Artest. You don't mix your emotions on the court with the emotions in the stands, its just two different things you must control. these guys are professoinals, and they sure as hell did not act like professionals. sure one may say 'but they are human too!', and ' they have feelings too and dont like being made fun of and harassed!', and that anyone who got beer thrown at them would act in that manner. well let me tell you one thing, these guys are getting PAID MILLIONS TO DO THIS!!! Suck it up! what happened was very unprofessional and I think these guys deserve all the bans. it is just unnaceptable to go into the stands and stick a fan, no matter WHAT they are doing.
have you ever been to a wizards game? well I have and I have sat right behing the oponents bench, and there is a guy known as the Heckler (im sure all places have these). the guy just sits behind the bench, and just runs his mouth OVER and OVER and OVER making fun of their moms, children, and anything else you can think of in the book. does that give them the right to turn around and punch the fan? no, it doesnt. they just brush it off because they HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT! ITS PART OF THE SPORT TO HAVE THE OTHER TEAM'S FANS TRY TO GET INTO YOUR HEAD!
sorry its early and my typing right now isn't in its greatest form, but i definitely believe that this guy got a very fair punishment, and I hope nothing like this happens again. this is just another example of why I hate the NBA and NCAA is like 100x better.
have you ever been to a wizards game? well I have and I have sat right behing the oponents bench, and there is a guy known as the Heckler (im sure all places have these). the guy just sits behind the bench, and just runs his mouth OVER and OVER and OVER making fun of their moms, children, and anything else you can think of in the book. does that give them the right to turn around and punch the fan? no, it doesnt. they just brush it off because they HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT! ITS PART OF THE SPORT TO HAVE THE OTHER TEAM'S FANS TRY TO GET INTO YOUR HEAD!
sorry its early and my typing right now isn't in its greatest form, but i definitely believe that this guy got a very fair punishment, and I hope nothing like this happens again. this is just another example of why I hate the NBA and NCAA is like 100x better.
purbeast0
No Lifer
dude that argument is so irrivelant here. basically you are saying that the bush then in turn has feelings and can make decisions for its own self, and its a 'professional' whom gets paid millions of dollars a year, who is used to the pressure of this in every game.
your comparison is BS in this case dude, sorry.
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