Official Phenom 2 Review Thread

[Atechie]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Not really, a Q9450 @ 3.2Ghz stomps a PhenomII at 3.6GHz, please stop

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Atechie

Not really, a Q9450 @ 3.2Ghz stomps a PhenomII at 3.6GHz, please stop

Show me the benchies.

 

[Atechie]

Help for the lame

Find me evidence to the opposite...

 

[Dravic]

Originally posted by: Atechie
Help for the lame

Find me evidence to the opposite...

Not the way it works here at Anandtech.

We tend to like having discussions backed up by data. A generic Google link is not a adequate response to the question that was posted to you. According to the links on the very first post of this thread the PII compares very well with the q9x00 series of cpu's from Intel.

In fact if you put "phenomII core2quad overclocking benchmarks" in google the 2nd link actually proves the PII overclocked is a pretty good match for the q9x00s'. and that is with a q9550 @ 3.7ghz.

google search results


Second link



Now please post the benchmarks that show the opposite, or better yet where it(q9x00's) "stomps" the PII.

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Hey i just noticed toms artical:-

http://www.tomshardware.com/re...-phenom-ii,2119-4.html

It is quite bias with i7 useing a ULTRA 120 for 3.8Ghz and PhII useing a Ajigo MF091 and as they say it OC to max of 3.64Ghz "What the ..."

i7 with a ULTRA 120 at 3.8Ghz 24/7 stable is very very hard on the other hand PhII at 3750Mhz is quite simple and stable with a OCZ Vendetta 2. I think maybe the ULTRA 120 is also compatible with the AM2+ platform but whatever.


But it was not a fair match cooler wise...

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Atechie
Help for the lame

Find me evidence to the opposite...

There's no reason to insult others here.

Going by AT's review, Anand states that the PhII 920 (2.8 Ghz) is comparable to the Q9300 (2.5 Ghz). Extrapolate that a bit to a 3.6 Ghz PhII vs a 3.2 Ghz C2Q, and they should remain roughly equal.

 

[Peter Trend]

I've got the Phenom II 940 and the heatsink. Heatpipes included lol. http://s147.photobucket.com/al...0940%20and%20Heatsink/
I'm away until tomorrow so can't swap CPU yet.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Peter Trend
I've got the Phenom II 940 and the heatsink. Heatpipes included lol. http://s147.photobucket.com/al...0940%20and%20Heatsink/
I'm away until tomorrow so can't swap CPU yet.

That just wrong!

You tempt us with the news and pics, and now you're "away until tomorrow"!!!

You cruel, cruel man...

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Peter Trend
I've got the Phenom II 940 and the heatsink. Heatpipes included lol. http://s147.photobucket.com/al...0940%20and%20Heatsink/
I'm away until tomorrow so can't swap CPU yet.

That just wrong!

You tempt us with the news and pics, and now you're "away until tomorrow"!!!

You cruel, cruel man...

I agree.

That stock HSF looks serious enough, but does anyone know how it stacks up against after-market coolers with heatpipes? Is it equivalent to a Tuniq?

It only makes sense that if reviewers are comparing max overclocks or temps during overclocking that the HSF capability of all systems be somewhat a controlled parameter in their review.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Peter Trend
I've got the Phenom II 940 and the heatsink. Heatpipes included lol. http://s147.photobucket.com/al...0940%20and%20Heatsink/
I'm away until tomorrow so can't swap CPU yet.

That just wrong!

You tempt us with the news and pics, and now you're "away until tomorrow"!!!

You cruel, cruel man...

I agree.

That stock HSF looks serious enough, but does anyone know how it stacks up against after-market coolers with heatpipes? Is it equivalent to a Tuniq?

It only makes sense that if reviewers are comparing max overclocks or temps during overclocking that the HSF capability of all systems be somewhat a controlled parameter in their review.

This looks like the same cooler that came with the previous B.E. Phenoms (4 heat pipe/copper slab for contact with the CPU). I never ran any real scientific tests, but from what I recall it was really very close to the performance of my Arctic Freezer 7.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh
Hey i just noticed toms artical:-

http://www.tomshardware.com/re...-phenom-ii,2119-4.html

It is quite bias with i7 useing a ULTRA 120 for 3.8Ghz and PhII useing a Ajigo MF091 and as they say it OC to max of 3.64Ghz "What the ..."

i7 with a ULTRA 120 at 3.8Ghz 24/7 stable is very very hard on the other hand PhII at 3750Mhz is quite simple and stable with a OCZ Vendetta 2. I think maybe the ULTRA 120 is also compatible with the AM2+ platform but whatever.


But it was not a fair match cooler wise...

Getting a i7 920 to 3.8GHz on an Ultra 120 is a very easy overclock, I have my 920 running @ 3.8GHz at little more than stock voltage (1.264V) and it was Linpack 64-bit stable for 8 hours. It's when you try to get 4GHz out of an i7 w/ HT enabled that you run into difficulties without water cooling.

Toms should have used the same cooler for each, but overall Phenom II doesn't overclock any better (in fact usually a bit worse) than Core i7. It's very possible to get 4GHz stable on air with an i7 920 but I haven't seen anyone get 4GHz stable on a PII.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Dravic

Originally posted by: Atechie
Help for the lame

Find me evidence to the opposite...

Not the way it works here at Anandtech.

We tend to like having discussions backed up by data. A generic Google link is not a adequate response to the question that was posted to you. According to the links on the very first post of this thread the PII compares very well with the q9x00 series of cpu's from Intel.

In fact if you put "phenomII core2quad overclocking benchmarks" in google the 2nd link actually proves the PII overclocked is a pretty good match for the q9x00s'. and that is with a q9550 @ 3.7ghz.

google search results


Second link



Now please post the benchmarks that show the opposite, or better yet where it(q9x00's) "stomps" the PII.

"competes well" but still loses.

No points for second place.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I'm thinking you guys read the Phenom 2 reviews where they had the C2Q chips running DDR3. That's not a fair comparison whatsoever. It's stupid in fact, and unethical on behalf of the websites as others have pointed out. HardOCP is a prime example.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I can deny it all I want, because it is not true. I ran a C2Q just fine without DDR3, and with a $110 mobo.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I can deny it all I want, because it is not true. I ran a C2Q just fine without DDR3, and with a $110 mobo.

Yes, I just stability tested my Q9550 C1 with this old P35 board in my sig at 3.8Ghz. 448x8.5 @ 1.38v in bios (1.35v idle and 1.29v load). The PII is cheaper only for those who are upgrading AM2+ boards. Everyone else will get better performance from Intel parts, and like I said...we will see how low intel cuts prices.

I am willing to bet that a DDR2 based P45 or x38/x48 board running a C2Q will still outpace a PII. Memory speed doesn't play that great a role in the performance of the LGA775 chips.

 

[Regs]

Will my NF Ultra II M2 run PHII with a bios update?

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh
Hey i just noticed toms artical:-

http://www.tomshardware.com/re...-phenom-ii,2119-4.html

It is quite bias with i7 useing a ULTRA 120 for 3.8Ghz and PhII useing a Ajigo MF091 and as they say it OC to max of 3.64Ghz "What the ..."

i7 with a ULTRA 120 at 3.8Ghz 24/7 stable is very very hard on the other hand PhII at 3750Mhz is quite simple and stable with a OCZ Vendetta 2. I think maybe the ULTRA 120 is also compatible with the AM2+ platform but whatever.


But it was not a fair match cooler wise...

Getting a i7 920 to 3.8GHz on an Ultra 120 is a very easy overclock, I have my 920 running @ 3.8GHz at little more than stock voltage (1.264V) and it was Linpack 64-bit stable for 8 hours. It's when you try to get 4GHz out of an i7 w/ HT enabled that you run into difficulties without water cooling.

Toms should have used the same cooler for each, but overall Phenom II doesn't overclock any better (in fact usually a bit worse) than Core i7. It's very possible to get 4GHz stable on air with an i7 920 but I haven't seen anyone get 4GHz stable on a PII.

i do know that 3.8ghz is easy to archive but i could not keep it stable. In several occasions the CPU crossed 90C and i got a BSOD "My room temp may have played a role in this but in summers this will be a cruel reappearance symptom". But at 3.6Ghz its the best ever smoother than my q6600@ 3ghz in several games i mean less haggish gaming.

I also have not seen peopel hit 4ghz in reviews but 3750Mhz or 3.75Ghz almost all reviewers hit and this is confirmed by several people who got a PhII with a decent cooler.

 

[dmens]

i do know that 3.8ghz is easy to archive but i could not keep it stable

i can hit 5ghz on my i7 but i could not keep it stable either

 

[qurious63ss]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I'm thinking you guys read the Phenom 2 reviews where they had the C2Q chips running DDR3. That's not a fair comparison whatsoever. It's stupid in fact, and unethical on behalf of the websites as others have pointed out. HardOCP is a prime example.

No they don't. You sure like t throw out a lot of misinformation don't you. C2Q can clock just as good or better and on top of that has better IPC. The value argument keeps popping up but you keep using Ci7. Why? The C2Q still beat PII on clock for clock and like I said before overclock even better. You seem to of made up your mind and now trying to justify it with false facts.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: dmens

i do know that 3.8ghz is easy to archive but i could not keep it stable

i can hit 5ghz on my i7 but i could not keep it stable either

I don't know what system he was talking about. His sig doesn't mention PII or i7.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I'm thinking you guys read the Phenom 2 reviews where they had the C2Q chips running DDR3. That's not a fair comparison whatsoever. It's stupid in fact, and unethical on behalf of the websites as others have pointed out. HardOCP is a prime example.

No they don't. You sure like t throw out a lot of misinformation don't you. C2Q can clock just as good or better and on top of that has better IPC. The value argument keeps popping up but you keep using Ci7. Why? The C2Q still beat PII on clock for clock and like I said before overclock even better. You seem to of made up your mind and now trying to justify it with false facts.

Whatever. You should be vacationed for flaming.

Very few C2Q chips can overclock higher than 4ghz, and the ones that do cost more than the Phehom 2 940.

It's close either way. It certainly doesn't warrant that type of bullshit post calling me out. Take a hike.

 

[qurious63ss]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I'm thinking you guys read the Phenom 2 reviews where they had the C2Q chips running DDR3. That's not a fair comparison whatsoever. It's stupid in fact, and unethical on behalf of the websites as others have pointed out. HardOCP is a prime example.

No they don't. You sure like t throw out a lot of misinformation don't you. C2Q can clock just as good or better and on top of that has better IPC. The value argument keeps popping up but you keep using Ci7. Why? The C2Q still beat PII on clock for clock and like I said before overclock even better. You seem to of made up your mind and now trying to justify it with false facts.

Whatever. You should be vacationed for flaming.

Very few C2Q chips can overclock higher than 4ghz, and the ones that do cost more than the Phehom 2 940.

It's close either way. It certainly doesn't warrant that type of bullshit post calling me out. Take a hike.

Flaming? For what correcting you. Very few C2Q can overclock higher then 4ghz and guess what even less P2 can overclock higher then 4ghz. The truth is that you tried to paint a picture that P2 is a better value and clocks higher then C2Q but that is a lie. You just can't expect to make comments like you did and not expect to get challenged.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: qurious63ss

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I didn't say it was a scam only misleading and purposefully done.

Here's a fact check for everyone here in case it doesn't click.

1) the PII isn't a magic chip that brings AMD to Intel's level.
2) The PII is and always will be slower than i7, and hopefully you understand that the i7 isn't their competition with this chip.
3) the PII is actually slower overall than a C2Q which has been available for months, sometimes not by a large margin but slower is still slower any way you slice it.
4) The names chosen for the PII were deliberately done so to mislead people into buying them thinking they were getting i7 performance for hundreds less. Nothing more and nothing less in my view.

That's how it is. You can argue that competition is good and blah blah but the simple fact still remains, AMD is behind Intel. Months behind, perhaps years...i'm not an engineer so I cannot say.

I agree with you, but you should point out that the Phenom 2 is a slightly better value than a C2Q when you take everything into account. The Phenom 2 920 in particular is a very good value and would be hard to beat with a C2Q at the same pricepoint.

Wrong. The Phenom 2 is not a better value. The only people that should consider upgrading to P2 is someone who already owns an AM2+ system. If you own an Intel 775 system then switching to P2 is stupid. If you are in the market for a new systems then you have a whole bunch of variables that can sway you back and forth but there is no definitive answer that makes P2 a better value then C2Q.

Right, and time will tell how far Intel is willing to drop prices on their C2Qs which may further push the PII out of the running for many people.

There is no denying that the P2 is cheaper than and performs better than the C2Q chips within their respective price markets. They also generally overclock better. Plus there is the fact that AMD platform is cheaper, and you don't need to worry about DDR3 or a $300 motherboard.

I'm thinking you guys read the Phenom 2 reviews where they had the C2Q chips running DDR3. That's not a fair comparison whatsoever. It's stupid in fact, and unethical on behalf of the websites as others have pointed out. HardOCP is a prime example.

No they don't. You sure like t throw out a lot of misinformation don't you. C2Q can clock just as good or better and on top of that has better IPC. The value argument keeps popping up but you keep using Ci7. Why? The C2Q still beat PII on clock for clock and like I said before overclock even better. You seem to of made up your mind and now trying to justify it with false facts.

Whatever. You should be vacationed for flaming.

Very few C2Q chips can overclock higher than 4ghz, and the ones that do cost more than the Phehom 2 940.

It's close either way. It certainly doesn't warrant that type of bullshit post calling me out. Take a hike.

Flaming? For what correcting you. Very few C2Q can overclock higher then 4ghz and guess what even less P2 can overclock higher then 4ghz. The truth is that you tried to paint a picture that P2 is a better value and clocks higher then C2Q but that is a lie. You just can't expect to make comments like you did and not expect to get challenged.

To be clear...your overclock with a C2Q is limited by the motherboard more so than the CPU.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: qurious63ss
Flaming? For what correcting you. Very few C2Q can overclock higher then 4ghz and guess what even less P2 can overclock higher then 4ghz. The truth is that you tried to paint a picture that P2 is a better value and clocks higher then C2Q but that is a lie. You just can't expect to make comments like you did and not expect to get challenged.

You might be missing sickbeasts initial point (as I read it) which was that the overclock of the price comparable C2Q is not likely to be as high as the overclock of the price comparable PhII.

For example if Q9400 is price comparable to the PhII 940 then sickbeasts argument is that the Q9400 won't likely overclock as high as the 940...which given the sickly low multi on the Q9400 I would tend to agree with such statement.

It remains to be tested (unless I missed it) whether the IPC delta between Q9400 and X4 940 is negated by the higher overclock on the X4 940 such that an overall price/performance when overclocked can be said to favor the X4 940.

What you are saying appears to not be what sickbeast is saying. You appear to be discussing the peak overclock of the entire C2Q product line (which yes does get >4GHz when you get to those higher multi Q9650 and QX9770 chips) versus that of the Phenom II lineup. Not the same thing sickbeast appears to be discussing.